The Official Gundam 00 Season 2 Thread Mk VI

[Vent Noir]

The message is that if a female wants to go into combat, that's automatically something wrong with her (before you say that's just the anti-war themes, there are plenty of males in the show who go into combat for rational reasons, and aren't condemned for it).

If there is a message, it isn't that women are unfit to pilot, but that even the best -women included- can be victims of circumstance -aka plain ol' (bad) luck- and that superior technology can be a deciding factor.

Skill isn't the issue (though is it too much to ask for Soma to at least get to do SOMETHING cool? I don't expect her to be the hero of the whole show or anything, but at least throw her a bone). It's the theme of "A woman has to be mentally f'ed up to be a pilot" (and once they heal, they'll leave it to the menfolk). I would not be surprised at all if Marie ends up an obedient little housewife for Allelujah.

(As an aside, I'm watching Gundam X at the moment, and even though Tifa and Marie are very similar characters, I like Tifa much more. To be fair, she does get more screentime and character development).

The only female who got to do anything impressive was Sumeragi, and that was only in S2 (okay, Kati in ep. 22 got her moment). I've said before and will say again that Code Geass and Macross Frontier did much better with their female characters (and not just the combatants - Sheryl and Nunnally, for example)

[Dean_the_Young]

I disagree with the assertion that all the female pilots are mentally fucked up. The only one who could really count as insane on any level is Louise, who was normally levelheaded and competent in her sorties until the Innovator-changing started, ie the last fight. With the exception of her post-Nena changes and her relapse in the very first episode at the sight of Exia, she's never gone crazy in the cockpit, gone rampant, or been stupified.

Soma has never been a raging lunatic either. She's not mentally fucked up; she's rational, coherent, and skilled. She doesn't even have a dual personality like Allelujah. Soma and Marie are the same person, and Soma only recame into dominance when she wanted to avenge Sergei.

Nena was simply ammoral, not crazy or mentally fucked up. She was what she and her brothers were made to be; little young soldiers. She never was given a reason or opportunity to develop a moral compass, and while that doesn't excuse her crimes it doesn't mean she's crazy either.

Compare the ladies of 00 to some of the femfatales from UC or Seed, from Four to Stellar to Rosamie or even what's-her-name from Victory, and the 00 girls are merely quirky.

[NovaGundam5683]

The only female who got to do anything impressive was Sumeragi

So Anew wasn't impressive? IIRC she was showing off some skills going up against Lyle in their battle.

Though is it too much to ask for Soma to at least get to do SOMETHING cool?

I agree with you wholeheartedly. Somarie is one of my favorite characters (she had an orange jumpsuit!) and the way they used her these past few episodes was...meh. I actually wanted her to do something more important than talk to Andrei, granted that keeping away thousands of Gaga's from hitting the Ptolemy was no easy task either, but still...

[Camille Vidan]

IT was a great episode, I was a little afraid after ep23 but they got back on track pretty nicely. At first I didn't like the show's MAGICAL GREEN LIGHTS MAKES OUR MINDS BETTER parts, but it came clear to me at last(I'm a little slow I guess) that this whole story element is exactly the same as the Amuro/Newtype stuff in previous UC shows, only it's way better presented while killing off the gundam clichés. And unlike previous series, this one could have a happy end. We'll see.



My thoughts about the Tieria death: He propably knew that he could link with Veda after his body dies, so he might died on purpose? Just a guess.

[Enact]

No other Gundam show has pulled something like this.

Um, it happened in Tomino's Gundam shows quite a bit (and we know the reasons for that). Of course, not every female pilot was nuts, but a lot of them were, particularly in Zeta Gundam and Victory. Also, Mizushima has said in the past (I think this was during his FMA days) that he isn't very good with characterizing females, so give the man SOME slack. I don't know the reason behind this or anything, but at least he admits his weak points as a director.

[RedBlitz]

Spoilers:

みんなの知りたい結末は劇場版
・誰も死なない
・リボンズキャノン、リボンズガンダム（正式名称です）
・00vsリボンズガンダムで太陽爐１個取られる
・アレルヤ超兵になってイノベイドボコった後リボンズファングで退場
・エクシアR2vsOガンダムはエクシアの勝利
・マリナは手紙読む、アザディスタン复興
・カティコーラ結婚
・ホーマー自宅で死亡
・新組織にイノベイドがいる
・刹那達は木星に行く

• The conclusions everyone wants are in the movie
• No one dies
• Ribbons Cannon, Ribbons Gundam (the formal/proper names)
• In the battle between 00 and Ribbons Gundam, one solar furnace is stolen
• Allelujah becomes a supersoldier [again] and exits with Ribbons Fangs after beating up the Innovado (I’m not really sure, I might have converted some of the kanji wrong)
• In Exia R2 vs 0 Gundam, Exia triumphs
• Marina reads a letter, returns to Azadistan (I think, not sure if I converted that last kanji right…)
• Kati and Patrick marry
• Homer dies in his home (Billy’s uncle if you’ve forgotten)
• Innovado exist in/are part of a new organization
• Setsuna and company go to Jupiter

YAY TEAM PATRICK!! The Immortal Colasour lvies on...AND TIES THE KNOT!! Way to go, Patrick!
...
Hang on, that last line sounds vaguely familiar. Oh yeaah, now I remember...

Allelujah becomes a supersoldier [again] and exits with Ribbons Fangs after beating up the Innovado (I’m not really sure, I might have converted some of the kanji wrong)

I dont quite get this supposed spoiler?? Is it trying to say that Al/Hal betrays CB or Al/Hal gets his ass kicked!??)

In Exia R2 vs 0 Gundam, Exia triumphs

Again... what the hell is that supposed to mean?? As for the movie, it's pretty much confirmed I guess now?

[Dark Duel]

TBH...I have no clue...it's not my translation, I just copied it over from the same blog where that pic of Ribbons's machine turned up.

[Phoenix]

I would not be surprised at all if Marie ends up an obedient little housewife for Allelujah.

Well that depends... If Soma is in the house (as in the head), then she will be wearing the pants in the relationship... Same applies for Allelujah/Hallelujah. (Can you imagine the house if both Soma and Hallelujah were arguing? Kitchen knives everywhere... )

I'm all for anti-damsel in distress, etc so I see where you're going with this. (And I'm female.) But I do have to disagree that while there were no females in the "Fab Four," the girls in 00 were shown as much more than puppy-love-driven twits that happen to have a big mecha in their control.

Sumeragi - totally lead Billy on.
Feldt - Was not introduced as eye candy, but a young crew member (much like Milleina now) unlike Christina who was obviously eye candy...
Nena - She's not insane. She's just a b*tch. Her brother was the one that was insane.
Soma/Marie - One of the stronger pilots of the series, however was always stuck with an inferior suit. Does this mean females always get the hand-me-down/crappier suits? Well in this series, there are only 4 original drives and they each have an owner already, so you can't really count that...
Louise - The only one that is legally insane. However as someone mentioned, she does get better at piloting and uses her wealth in more ways than waiting in the background for someone to do the killing for her.

I feel the female characters in this series are much stronger than many previous other ones. If anything, the males of this series were more emotional... *cough* Billy, Lyle, Tieria, Allelujah, Saji, etc *cough* (Wait, this has been a trend since Seed/Destiny for the men...)

Count the tears. Not that emotions are bad... But they'd been previously used as factors that foils a plan or leads to controversy/surrendering. (Typically it's always some woman's fault that battles abrupt and vengeance sparks.) I'm glad this series didn't really do much of that.

[NeoStar9]

One thing that struck me as odd, is that the Federation and Kataron ships seem to just be sitting there watching they pretty lights. Didn't anyone say "hey, maybe we should be helping those guys trying to save the world?"

Granted, they'd be cannon fodder, but still, they could toss CB a bone.

Or they could be waiting for everything to be over. Then someone could order them to open fire and finally take out CB for good. Now that would be an interesting ending to the series. CB does it's part to fix things they helped cause (lets not forget this. They had a large part in all of this taking place.) only to have the rest of the Federation open fire on them. End result the world is still united and at peace under the control of the Federation.

In the end though I still feel CB has to pay for what it's done over the course of the series (they've caused a lot of death and suffering directly and indirectly). They aren't saving the world at this point. They are simply stopping someone from taking it over but even with that the world isn't in any danger in the normal sense. The same thing at the end of season 1. The world itself wasn't in danger of being harmed directly but just about to be taken over by someone CB didn't like or approve of. This doesn't really make them heroes to the world. This really is just a fight between two groups of "bad guys" in the end from how I understand things.. The Federation is still the "good guys".

Now if they end up stopping a colony drop like event (which I keep thinking of whenever I see the ship Celestial Being) on the planet I'll see them as trying to save the world.

[Akai Suisei]

• In the battle between 00 and Ribbons Gundam, one solar furnace is stolen

This would explain why, in the ED, 00 is missing the GN Drive on its left shoulder and the Raizer is really horribly damaged on its right side, which would correspond to 00's left shoulder when in their docked state.

Not really important, but no-one had mentioned it yet, and I just noticed re-watching the episode.

[Dark Duel]

Now if they end up stopping a colony drop like event (which I keep thinking of whenever I see the ship Celestial Being) on the planet I'll see them as trying to save the world.

Orbital Elevator. Remember that? Granted, they weren't entirely successful, but they were the ones who spearheaded the effort to destroy the falling pieces.
In my book, that counts.

That said, that ambiguous quality - the lack of clear-cut "good" vs "bad" (As compared to, for example, the evidently-evil Crossbone Vanguard of F91) is, I think, one of 00's finest qualities because I feel it's much more realistic.

[Vent Noir]

No other Gundam show has pulled something like this.

Um, it happened in Tomino's Gundam shows quite a bit (and we know the reasons for that). Of course, not every female pilot was nuts, but a lot of them were, particularly in Zeta Gundam and Victory. Also, Mizushima has said in the past (I think this was during his FMA days) that he isn't very good with characterizing females, so give the man SOME slack. I don't know the reason behind this or anything, but at least he admits his weak points as a director.

Zeta had Emma and Hamaan (who, despite being a villain, is still a strong character), and Victory had Mavette and the Shrike Team.

[ShadowCell]

On the other hand, Zeta had Rosamia, Four, and Sarah; and Victory had Fualla and Katejina. So it's a crap shoot either way.

And no matter how many crazy women or not-crazy women you can bring up from Gundam shows current and past, there's just as many crazy or not-crazy men. So it's truer to say that 00 in general has a pretty maladjusted cast, from "Split Personality" Allelujah to "I Am Gundam" Setsuna to "Lol Killing People" Nena to "I Love/Hate/Something Gundam And Now I'm A Samurai Or Something" Graham to "I Am God" Ribbons to "VENGEANCE IS MINE" Louise to "My Dad Never Talked To Me, So I Killed Him" Andrei to "Alcoholic" Sumeragi.

So all this talk of crazy women in Gundam kind of misses the point. Everyone is crazy in Gundam. The rare ones are the ones who aren't somehow maladjusted.

[Darkenvoy254]

On the other hand, Zeta had Rosamia, Four, and Sarah; and Victory had Fualla and Katejina. So it's a crap shoot either way.

And no matter how many crazy women or not-crazy women you can bring up from Gundam shows current and past, there's just as many crazy or not-crazy men. So it's truer to say that 00 in general has a pretty maladjusted cast, from "Split Personality" Allelujah to "I Am Gundam" Setsuna to "Lol Killing People" Nena to "I Love/Hate/Something Gundam And Now I'm A Samurai Or Something" Graham to "I Am God" Ribbons to "VENGEANCE IS MINE" Louise to "My Dad Never Talked To Me, So I Killed Him" Andrei to "Alcoholic" Sumeragi.

So all this talk of crazy women in Gundam kind of misses the point. Everyone is crazy in Gundam. The rare ones are the ones who aren't somehow maladjusted.

So....You mean like someone like Lockon except for a few times he always seem to me to have his head on pretty straight.

[ShadowCell]

Depends on which Lockon you're talking about.

To be fair, well-adjusted, "normal" people aren't all that fun to watch, and well-adjusted, "normal" people don't go joining terrorist organizations that plan to end all war by waging war on everyone, using giant robots that shoot pixie dust out their backs. But the point remains that all this pontificating about crazy women in Gundam is pretty silly.

[Darkenvoy254]

Depends on which Lockon you're talking about.

Lockon 1.0 was the one i was talking about but i guess you could also say that Lyle had his head on OK.(Not as much as his older brother but hey Lyle had that jester attitude) Also once again for him a few moments he could of handled better.(Punching the living Daylights out of setsuna is the one that comes to mind.)

[Genocide]

At first I didn't like the show's MAGICAL GREEN LIGHTS MAKES OUR MINDS BETTER parts, but it came clear to me at last(I'm a little slow I guess) that this whole story element is exactly the same as the Amuro/Newtype stuff in previous UC shows, only it's way better presented while killing off the gundam clichés.

I don't mean to pick on you in particular, but I've noticed several people have been saying that despite being practically the same deus ex machina as what we've seen in previous Gundam shows, somehow 00 does it "way better". Honestly, I don't see how it was done better anymore than it was done worse, or vice versa.

And unlike previous series, this one could have a happy end. We'll see.

A happy ending in Gundam isn't nearly as rare as people make it out to be. MSG, ZZ, G, Wing, X, Turn A, SEED, and GSD all had very upbeat endings (varying in quality, of course). The only real exceptions are Zeta, Victory, and the first season of 00.

[Destiny_Gundam]

I would not be surprised at all if Marie ends up an obedient little housewife for Allelujah.

To this, I'd have to say "So what?" If that's what Marie wants, and if that's what makes her happy more power to her. It's only wrong to force women into such roles. If Marie's all for being a housewife, who are we to disagree?


Anyways, some tidbits from Official File #4:

http://ninteenpointzerofour.wordpress.c ... ile-vol-4/

Naturally, this is the most relevant to me:

P10 Feldt
Impact phrase: “She’s quietly waiting for the person she loves”
According to the article, Setsuna is unaware of Feldt’s faint feelings [for him?], and Feldt no longer has any special feelings for Lyle.

A random ship of mine becomes cannonically one-sided? Holy crap, I don't think this has ever happened before!

[Dark Jackal]

A bigger issue with the crazed behavior of the cyber-newtype is their mental trauma undergoing memory tampering such as Four from Zeta and the trio of Gundam pilots in Seed.

[Red Comet90]

I don't mean to pick on you in particular, but I've noticed several people have been saying that despite being practically the same deus ex machina as what we've seen in previous Gundam shows, somehow 00 does it "way better". Honestly, I don't see how it was done better anymore than it was done worse, or vice versa.

It's only better because it's new and has flashy lights. In retrospect we will say both are equally good and to be honest a re invisioning of old ideas sometimes seems better than the first time around its given to us. To be honest though Gundam 00 does it in a way that hasn't been done before so I like the idea and I find it more plausible than humans evolving due to living out in space. Regardless it is still the same plot though.

Edit: I forgot to add that Gundam 00 gives a reason for human understanding to be necessary. Tieria alludes to dialogues with others. Of course this means people or aliens who live on distant planets. One last thing I think they explained the understanding part alot better here than in the original Gundam shows. I may be mistaken since I haven't seen the original MSG in 3 or 4 years, but to me it was rather vague throughout the entire show until Lala shows up.

Going on, does anyone think the MS Ribbons pilots conjures up a sort of new version of the Guncannon like how the GN Archer looks similar to a GM.