The Official Gundam 00 Season 2 Thread Mk VI

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Dark Duel
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Post by Dark Duel » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:55 pm

That's come up a few times, yeah.
Yet another nod to Amuro, who IIRC went out in GunCannon after the Gundam's foot was lopped off.
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Post by scythedd7 » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:56 pm

Who else noticed that the 0 Gundams particle reserve meter was practically the same style (other then the screen it was on) that the first Gundam had? I know fully believe it will have it's head and arm shot off for no apparent reason other then for the awesome!

Also my one major question about this episode (and I have a possible half-answer) is, when the heck did Tieria link with Veda, especially seeing that he had been locked out in S1? I can see that being how Ribbons may have reversed the situation after Tieria had gotten the upper hand in cornering him (If was busy linking/transferring/whatever with Veda, he probably would not have been paying to much attention to what was going on around is physical body, thus getting shot), but that still doesn't explain how he would have linked, since I'm sure Ribbons would have taken extra precaution to make sure Tieria couldn't. I would say that Regene would have helped him (and may have seeing the his consciousness seems to be intact within Veda), but he was shot a while ago, so I don't know how.

And also, this is a minor question, but is CB (the asteroid thing) where Ribbons' couch is or what? I always wanted to know where the heck it was, and for some reason thought it was on earth (the windowlike walls may have added to that) but now I think it must be there. I think the best place for it would be in the Ribbons Cannon, what better place for him to pilot from then his iconic couch, that punk :P
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Post by Red Comet90 » Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:05 pm

I saw the 0 Gundam's Particle meter and laughed so hard! I thought it was awesome they alluded to it being similar to the RX-78. Just looking at the 0 Gundam makes you think of the RX-78-2.

As for the couch place, I believe it was on the asteroid all along. It makes sense if it was since the apparent earth like background was actually a bunch of images that he used to decorate the room. Very similar to Z Gundam: A New Translation and Char's Counterattack which had rooms with the same feature. I wish I had a room like that.

As for the question with Tieria, I do not know at all. They may reveal what happened in episode 25.
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Post by Genocide » Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:43 pm

I'm assuming that Regene had something to do with Tieria's integration, given how he "introduced" Tieria to Ribbons after the latter thought he was dead.

As for the whole understanding-brings-peace thing, that was pretty much the theory behind Newtypes in UC. They were supposed to be able to live peacefully among each other because of their ability to perfectly understand one another, but in the end they were nothing but tools of war. In some cases, people like Haman, Scirocco and Char took advantage of their abilities for the wrong reasons. I think despite the differences, 00 has been alluding to the same concept. Come to think of it, "Innovator" and "Newtype" are almost synonomous, given how to innovate is to create something new.

Also, I suppose the presence of extraterrestrials is all but confirmed, although I doubt they'll be expanded on much until the sequel. While I'm still not very optimistic about the prospect, I'm not going to criticise it until it's actually done. It would, in my opinion, make more sense if the sequel introduced them after a lengthy time gap between the end of this season so things have a chance to build up and don't just seem like one massive coincidence.

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Post by azrael » Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:07 am

Genocide wrote:Also, I suppose the presence of extraterrestrials is all but confirmed, although I doubt they'll be expanded on much until the sequel. ...
The whole extraterrestrials-thing goes with the idea that we cannot be the only species in the universe. Somewhat like what they're discovering on Mars in our universe. Aeolia just combined that with his predictions. The idea is, eventually, mankind will move into space. Eventually, mankind will move beyond this solar system. And if there is life on other planets based on current findings within our own solar system, then eventually, mankind will run into them. Eventually this. Eventually that. Eventually this will happen because of that, etc... Bacteria living on other planets is technically extraterrestrial life.

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Post by Enact » Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:14 am

Vent Noir wrote:
Zeta had Emma and Hamaan (who, despite being a villain, is still a strong character), and Victory had Mavette and the Shrike Team.[/quote] That's true but some of those Shrike Team girls had their own problems (like that one lady who practically had a death wish). My point was though, that having a cast full of crazy/manipulative/sometimes generally useless female characters is something that's been in gundam for a long time, particularly with Tomino's shows. That's not to say I don't disagree with you on some of your complaints with the females in 00, I'm just saying it's not an issue that's unique to the franchise as a whole. I do agree with you though on Marie being generally weaksause.
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Post by Chris » Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:26 am

Enact wrote:I do agree with you though on Marie being generally weaksause.
What's wrong with Marie? I get the impression that a lot of anime fans think that unless a woman is roaring lioness, she's somehow a weak character. Marie has her own personality different from Soma's, and she doesn't like fighting. What she does as Marie she does of her own free will. If she wants to support Allelujah and not fight, what's wrong with that, and how does that make her weak?
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Post by Phantomexe87 » Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:51 am

Sure would be funny if that extraterrestrial life turned out to be very hostile, that'd throw a wrench into Aeolia's plans.

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Post by Gadget » Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:27 am

Phantomexe87 wrote:Sure would be funny if that extraterrestrial life turned out to be very hostile, that'd throw a wrench into Aeolia's plans.
I think they are the 'anti-spirals'. Given the fact that the Seraphim looks more like a Gunman from Tengrn Toppa Gurren Lagann. Now where is that 'Giga Drill Breaker'.

Anyone noticed that the 'ideal' future that Billy talks about sounds too much like the 'Destiny's Plan'?

GN particles begins too sound too much like pixie-dust.
Uncompress high saturation will result in a newtype like experience.
Uncompressed low saturation will function like a beam shield or thrust.
Compressed form will function like a beam weapon.
Compressed saturated form will form a mega sword.

So GN is like dynamite. Dynamite and explosive power could be a force for good, or a force to kill. So when would we see the Aeolia Peace price?

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Post by ShadowCell » Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:39 am

The Destiny Plan was a big eugenics program. The only thing that seems even remotely similar in 00 is Ribbons' conceit that only he is fit to rule humanity, with the Innovators as his lackeys, and really, that's more Ribbons' god complex than anything else.

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Post by Vent Noir » Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:36 am

Chris wrote:
Enact wrote:I do agree with you though on Marie being generally weaksause.
What's wrong with Marie? I get the impression that a lot of anime fans think that unless a woman is roaring lioness, she's somehow a weak character. Marie has her own personality different from Soma's, and she doesn't like fighting. What she does as Marie she does of her own free will. If she wants to support Allelujah and not fight, what's wrong with that, and how does that make her weak?
It's not wrong in and of itself. However, the female character "suppourting from the sidelines and not fighting" is a cliche that writers often use as an excuse not to have female characters in an active role.

I certainly don't feel a female has to be a combatant to be a good character. I mentioned before that Tifa of GX is very similar to Marie, but I like her a lot more.

The "obedient little housewife" comment was mainly just letting off steam, so take it with a grain of salt.

EDIT: Maybe my dislike is because the whole Marie thing felt very contrived to me.
Enact wrote:
Vent Noir wrote:
Zeta had Emma and Hamaan (who, despite being a villain, is still a strong character), and Victory had Mavette and the Shrike Team.
That's true but some of those Shrike Team girls had their own problems (like that one lady who practically had a death wish). My point was though, that having a cast full of crazy/manipulative/sometimes generally useless female characters is something that's been in gundam for a long time, particularly with Tomino's shows. That's not to say I don't disagree with you on some of your complaints with the females in 00, I'm just saying it's not an issue that's unique to the franchise as a whole. I do agree with you though on Marie being generally weaksause.[/quote]

Personally, I feel that Tomino generally does a good job with female roles despite everything.

Bringing up Zeta, I'm personally inclined to cut it some slack because it was the first show to do the "brainwashed and crazy female pilot" thing. It's an example of something that doesn't necessarily seem bad in isolation, but when it gets done repeatedly, becomes a problem.

As an aside, over on the You'll All Be Sorry forum I was pulling the opposite tack recently. People were talking about the "girl gets killed/mistreated to provide motivation for a male character" cliche, and I argued that it can be used well, and brought up Lalah Sun as an example.

EDIT: Don't double-post, please. You've been here long enough to know better.

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Post by Poochi » Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:18 am

*sigh* Just an episode full of people crying and hugging.
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Post by Symbolhime » Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:42 am

Phantomexe87 wrote:Sure would be funny if that extraterrestrial life turned out to be very hostile, that'd throw a wrench into Aeolia's plans.
I would like (if the movie is indeed about aliens) that they'd be more of a westernish interpretation, maybe a heavily factionalized race of non-humanoid warlords that really kick butt in combat.

Not really sure how much that'd gel with Aeolia's understanding and peacefulness plans, however. =/
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Post by Meteoid » Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:23 am

Poochi wrote:*sigh* Just an episode full of people crying and hugging.
Not to mention Ali Dying, Andrei feeling remorse for murdering his father, Celestial Being taking Veda back, Finally seeing Seraphim's Trial Field and Louise turning back to normal.

Oh yes and GN Hax...BIG GN hax

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Post by RedBlitz » Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:25 am

Vent Noir wrote:
Chris wrote:
Enact wrote:I do agree with you though on Marie being generally weaksause.
What's wrong with Marie? I get the impression that a lot of anime fans think that unless a woman is roaring lioness, she's somehow a weak character. Marie has her own personality different from Soma's, and she doesn't like fighting. What she does as Marie she does of her own free will. If she wants to support Allelujah and not fight, what's wrong with that, and how does that make her weak?
It's not wrong in and of itself. However, the female character "suppourting from the sidelines and not fighting" is a cliche that writers often use as an excuse not to have female characters in an active role.

I certainly don't feel a female has to be a combatant to be a good character. I mentioned before that Tifa of GX is very similar to Marie, but I like her a lot more.

The "obedient little housewife" comment was mainly just letting off steam, so take it with a grain of salt.

EDIT: Maybe my dislike is because the whole Marie thing felt very contrived to me.
You're kind of contradicting yourself.... she can't be a housewife and she doesn’t have to be a Gundam Meister. What do you want someone in between??

That's what I think Soma, Kati and Sumeragi are. Strong female characters that aren’t necessarily on the frontlines kicking ass yet they do something that is important to the plot.
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Post by Dark Duel » Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:40 am

Oh yes and GN Hax...BIG GN hax
BIG is an understatement. This is CCA-Amuro-pushing-back-Axis-with-magic-NT-pixie-dust huge.[/deliberate oversimplification]

Though I suppose that could very well have been at least in part a deliberate homage - the similarities are kinda too major to ignore IMO.
(Still hoping Setsuna survives the end of the series)
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Post by Meteoid » Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:04 pm

Dark Duel wrote:
Oh yes and GN Hax...BIG GN hax
BIG is an understatement. This is CCA-Amuro-pushing-back-Axis-with-magic-NT-pixie-dust huge.[/deliberate oversimplification]
Fine then. big, bulky, colossal, cracking, cumbersome, cumbrous, elephantine, enormous, extensive, gargantuan, gigantic, grand, great, heavy, hefty, huge, hulking, immense, imposing, impressive, mammoth, mighty, monster, monumental, mountainous, ponderous, prodigious, solid, stately, substantial, titanic, towering, tremendous, vast, walloping, weighty, whopping. Take your pick :P

On a more serious note, as harsh as it sounds I hope that someone dies since at the minute it looks like 00 Raiser has fixed the problems that meant everyone wouldn't get a perfectly happy ending. I.e. Lasse's GN Cancer and Louise's mindscrews Don't get me wrong, I like a happy ending as much as the next guy, but this is straying dangerously close towards SEED Destiny. Where the bad guys all die and the good guys get everything fized miraculously and live happily ever after.

Also, Mr. Bushido mentioned the Innovators during his last fight with Setsuna. What actually is his relationship with them?

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Post by AnimeMun » Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:26 pm

Meteoid wrote:
Dark Duel wrote:
Oh yes and GN Hax...BIG GN hax
BIG is an understatement. This is CCA-Amuro-pushing-back-Axis-with-magic-NT-pixie-dust huge.[/deliberate oversimplification]
Fine then. big, bulky, colossal, cracking, cumbersome, cumbrous, elephantine, enormous, extensive, gargantuan, gigantic, grand, great, heavy, hefty, huge, hulking, immense, imposing, impressive, mammoth, mighty, monster, monumental, mountainous, ponderous, prodigious, solid, stately, substantial, titanic, towering, tremendous, vast, walloping, weighty, whopping. Take your pick :P

On a more serious note, as harsh as it sounds I hope that someone dies since at the minute it looks like 00 Raiser has fixed the problems that meant everyone wouldn't get a perfectly happy ending. I.e. Lasse's GN Cancer and Louise's mindscrews Don't get me wrong, I like a happy ending as much as the next guy, but this is straying dangerously close towards SEED Destiny. Where the bad guys all die and the good guys get everything fized miraculously and live happily ever after.

Also, Mr. Bushido mentioned the Innovators during his last fight with Setsuna. What actually is his relationship with them?
So you are wanting the Automatons to come back online and start a massacre on everyone on the Ptolemy? Because at this point thats the only way a good guy is gonna bite it from what I can tell.

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Post by Shinji103 » Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:30 pm

Chris wrote:What's wrong with Marie? I get the impression that a lot of anime fans think that unless a woman is roaring lioness, she's somehow a weak character. Marie has her own personality different from Soma's, and she doesn't like fighting. What she does as Marie she does of her own free will. If she wants to support Allelujah and not fight, what's wrong with that, and how does that make her weak?
It's nothing new, really; why do you think characters like Luca and Nanase from Macross F are hated?

In the end, the major majority of the anime fanbase is a bunch of whiny, kids who are actively looking for things to complain about. If a character isn't cool or [email protected]$$, he/she sucks. Marie isn't a [email protected]$$ pilot or [email protected]$$ anything in particular, so they hate on her.

Meteoid wrote:Also, Mr. Bushido mentioned the Innovators during his last fight with Setsuna. What actually is his relationship with them?
I don't think he really had any connection to them other than knowing about them, and being in A-LAWS. (which he probably knew they controlled) Unlike Billy, we haven't seen any evidence that he's even met any of them.
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Post by MrMarch » Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:37 pm

Honestly, I never found Marie that compelling as a character to begin with. Marie seemed included in Gundam 00 mostly to act as an emotional anchor for Sergei and a psychological foil for Allelujah. But as a character, Marie is fairly flat in her own right, aside from the novelty of her personality crisis. Though to be honest, I'm indifferent to Soma/Marie and her presence in the story. I find Saji and Louise the most extraneous character set in all of Gundam 00 (much like Luca and Nanase in Macross Frontier). They are largely one-dimensional characters that do nothing but absorb time better spent for more interesting characters or they serve as the blank slot to fulfill the needs of a random plot point. What's worse, their development arcs could have easily been transposed to other composite characters with virtually no impact on the story.

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