The Official Gundam 00 Season 2 Thread Mk IV

[ShadowCell]

Thread for season 2 of Gundam 00 and only season 2. Please tag spoilers, don't pull things out of your ass to speculate about, and refrain from being jerks.

Also, please keep in mind that this thread is for discussing the anime--as in, the plot and characters and setting. Discussions of, say, the mecha, GN particles and all the wacky things they do, the physics of an elevator collapse, etc belong in the Mecha thread. So that's why I won't quote the last thread and we'll just start anew (oh, I kill me).

[Dean_the_Young]

Badum-tisch!

(crickets)

Bad puns aside, anyone have a picture of the new Saji piloting suit that was briefly mentioned last thread?

[Meteoid]

So far this is all we have, from the OP. never mind though, we'll see it next episode.

[Gadget]

The clashing stars reminds me of Hero vs Zechs. I prefer the battle without trans-am.

Did Setsuna hit the engine off button when he passed out?

[Marcis]

I wonder what Saji will pilot because 0 Riser is needed to stabilize 00s Twin Drive so it has to stay permanently docked.

[VentZX]

I wonder what Saji will pilot because 0 Riser is needed to stabilize 00s Twin Drive so it has to stay permanently docked.

Right before they show Saji in a pilot suit in the preview, we get a shot of the 0 Raiser not attached to the 00, so I'm gonna say he launches in that and Setsuna joins the battle later.

EDIT: Here you go

[Neo_Senku]

I wonder what Saji will pilot because 0 Riser is needed to stabilize 00s Twin Drive so it has to stay permanently docked.

I think its been stated that to get the full use of 0 raiser with the 00 it still needs a pilot. Something with the sensor unit I believe.

[Meteoid]

Additionally, the 00 works fine without it as long as it doesn't go into Trans-Am, but if Saji flies the 0 Raiser they can split up and have all the advantages of having two units. But this is straying dangerously close to mecha regions so let's leave it there.

[ZeonsSilverStar]

So with this new pilot suit is it safe to assume that Saji is now officialy apart of Celestial Being?

[Meteoid]

probably not, but if he's going to fly the 'Raiser full time now he may as well be given a proper pilot suit

[frezik]

So with this new pilot suit is it safe to assume that Saji is now officialy apart of Celestial Being?

He's as much a part of Celestial Being as Kamille was part of the AEUG.

[Areku]

I stand corrected on Japan being independent. That's what I get for trusting old memories as I'm going out the door for a vacation. While verifying my mistake, though, I came across another tidbit that I'll be haunting the Mecha section with eventually.

On Graham... As I've said before, I've come to loath this new caricature of the old Graham, and yet... As I watched this episode, I've come to like Mr. Bushido in a different way, from a different perspective. Before, I got the impression that he was supposed to represent real honor, that he was supposed to represent strength and determination and that we as viewers were supposed to look at him and think "Gee, that Mr. Bushido is a great guy, he's so cool" *swoon*; in that respect, I though he was terrible, and I'll continue to assert just as much. But I looked at him from a different viewpoint in this episode, and saw him not as someone who was supposed to be honorable and desirable, but as a true victim.

In the first season, Graham was a surprisingly deep character (despite some assertions that he was always selfish, impulsive and obsessive), able to think about more than the here-and-now battle and his own desires; see episode 13 when he tells his men to stand down. He also protected his old comrades and legitimately grieved for those who did die. Now, he's consumed by his lust for challenging, "honorable" combat, and he recklessly endangers others for this desire; he even endangers his new A-LAWS comrades. Looking at him now, as he disregards everything but his desire to fight Setsuna/00, I can't help but look at him as a victim of war. Mental damage, psychological disorders, however you want to name it; both his mind and spirit seem to be injured from his combat experiences in a way that's every bit as real as if he where to permanently lose a limb. He appears totally consumed by these changes, and comes across as a far more tragic character than I'd thought of him before, perhaps unknowingly doomed to a shallow and ultimately meaningless existence. I miss old Graham, but I've come to respect Mr. Bushido as a tragic character who, in his own way, personifies the horrors of war.

I'm not sure why people seem to be disliking this episode. Okay, the combat was short, but it's meaning was in the dialogue, contrasting the differences (and to an extent, role-reversals) of Setsuna and Graham. Plus, it sets up for what promises to be an interesting next few episodes, and I found even the setup itself to be independently entertaining. All a matter of tastes, I suppose.

I guess I'll go ahead and share some antiquated speculation; prior to the history between Sergei and Hercules being explored, I had the nagging suspicion that Hercules was Saji's dad, having faked his own death and doing whatever it took in pursuit of the truth, and somewhere along the way assuming a more active role in changing the world. It made sense a few episodes back, at least to me, but I won't go into further detail on the specifics; now, it's obviously not possible, so I figured I might as well share it here so that everyone can feel some self-assurance; "Well, at least I didn't come up with that stupid idea".

[Shinji_Shinigami]

considering the ending (if we can take it for so much) and the scenes showing the "jacket couples" then its clear to see that his blue shirt and louises a-laws jacket are tied togehter on the o-raiser.

so apparently he is not getting an full set of cb uniform...whereas i'd like to know what his colour scheme would be....

so his improvement of coolnes would be a cb custom space suit and nothing more i suppose

[Nagato21]

Like Areku I have come to believe Graham is a victim after this episode.
I guess we are used to always expect the Gundam trend of Mask character that we forget that 00 innovates by using the old recipes.
I wasn't surprise by Memento Mori return since it was mention previously that there where two satellite weapons. Hercules plan was a big gamble but perhaps the only way to counter Veda information manipulation. I am starting to hate Andrei and Louise ways of thinking. How can they believe that outright slaughter is the way of peace? It is also ironic that Andrei became the very thing he hated about his father when he joined the military.

[Shinji103]

A little late to point this out, but I get some serious irony and karma vibes from these last two episodes. It was Setsuna who essentially flat-out declared to Billy that the woman living with him was part of CB to burn Sumeragi's bridges and get her to come back to CB. So in getting one of their greatest allies back, he created one of their worst enemies, causing Billy to make his final decision to join A-LAWS. Now it's coming back to bite Setsuna in the @$$ with the TRANS-GrahAM that Billy fielded.

[Aegis]

Honestly, with revealing Setsuna's secret to Louise and a ten second showing of Trans GrahAM, we have yet to see Billy's hatred for Sumeragi bear any real fruit. All this is still the tip of the iceberg, so I'm expecting to see this get much worse.

[Recon 5]

It really looks like what Graham is looking for at this point is a lock down, drag out one on one with the 00, and once he's beaten that thing personally he'll probably go back to wiping out the rest of CB. Unfortunately, that's the last thing the rest of CB is going to give him, barring a situation where the Innovators and Ali keep them off his back.

[Strike Zero]

Honestly, with revealing Setsuna's secret to Louise and a ten second showing of Trans GrahAM, we have yet to see Billy's hatred for Sumeragi bear any real fruit.

Au contraire, we the audience have also been witness to Billy's deep inner rage when he demonstrated his mad dramatic-photo-ripping prowess.

[Attomoku]

Yeah grahams been consumed by obsession but now that I stop and think, he might also be looking to die on his own terms. Could he have a terminal illness?
Might explain some of the blood because I would have to assume that it would be flat out stupid not to have decent gee diffusers in such a high spec machine thats DESIGNED for Trans-grahAm

[Dean_the_Young]

A couple points/thoughts on across this, so instead of just replying to one big block...

I stand corrected on Japan being independent. That's what I get for trusting old memories as I'm going out the door for a vacation. While verifying my mistake, though, I came across another tidbit that I'll be haunting the Mecha section with eventually.

I still think you might have been thinking of Code Geass: the 3 power system is scarily similar.

On Graham... As I've said before, I've come to loath this new caricature of the old Graham, and yet... As I watched this episode, I've come to like Mr. Bushido in a different way, from a different perspective. Before, I got the impression that he was supposed to represent real honor, that he was supposed to represent strength and determination and that we as viewers were supposed to look at him and think "Gee, that Mr. Bushido is a great guy, he's so cool" *swoon*; in that respect, I though he was terrible, and I'll continue to assert just as much. But I looked at him from a different viewpoint in this episode, and saw him not as someone who was supposed to be honorable and desirable, but as a true victim.

In the first season, Graham was a surprisingly deep character (despite some assertions that he was always selfish, impulsive and obsessive), able to think about more than the here-and-now battle and his own desires; see episode 13 when he tells his men to stand down. He also protected his old comrades and legitimately grieved for those who did die. Now, he's consumed by his lust for challenging, "honorable" combat, and he recklessly endangers others for this desire; he even endangers his new A-LAWS comrades. Looking at him now, as he disregards everything but his desire to fight Setsuna/00, I can't help but look at him as a victim of war. Mental damage, psychological disorders, however you want to name it; both his mind and spirit seem to be injured from his combat experiences in a way that's every bit as real as if he where to permanently lose a limb. He appears totally consumed by these changes, and comes across as a far more tragic character than I'd thought of him before, perhaps unknowingly doomed to a shallow and ultimately meaningless existence. I miss old Graham, but I've come to respect Mr. Bushido as a tragic character who, in his own way, personifies the horrors of war.

While I certainly agree that Mr. Bushido isn't supposed to be a 'cool' character and certainly not disirable, I disagree that he's a victim twisted by injury or malady. Everything there is about Mr. Bushido is a natural (if twisted and unfortunate) growth from Graham.

I'm certainly not implying Graham was always selfish, impulsive and obsessive; to say so is about as correct as to say that Lockon was obsessed about the past, which is true from one stance but hardly the sum and total of the character. Graham did have more than a touch of pride, of haste, and passion. But it was also balanced out by other things: loyalty, duty, and respect to his friends. They didn't always make an easy contrast: you could feel his impatience when held back in Azadistan, hear his turbulent emotions at reigning in the remaining Overflags after the Throne attack, and then Darryl left without word to join the Jinx squadron, and Graham never got to either confront or reconcile with him. And after the final battle, Billy eventually retired from the military, and it was only at some point after that that Graham became known as Bushido.

Personally, I think that was the crux of his development: Graham lost his friends, which was bad in two ways. First, it led to his quest to avenge Howard and then Darryl, leading to that beyond-love-is-hatred obsession. And two, and perhaps more importantly, he lost reason for restraint and responsibiliity and what otherwise kept him Graham and not Bushido.

I don't think it's fair to say Mr. Bushido endangered his A-LAW comrades, because they aren't his comrades. He keeps himself separate from them, they keep themselves separate from him. Graham was a man with friends to keep him back and a command to keep him responsible: Bushido has (excluding Billy, who retired) no living friends to hold back for and no command to hold him back from whatever he wants. They're merely people on the same side of the battlefield, and only as little as Bushido can keep it.

Bushido isn't an ailment or injury, he's what Graham grew into without his friends and responsibility to keep him straight and narrow.

I guess I'll go ahead and share some antiquated speculation; prior to the history between Sergei and Hercules being explored, I had the nagging suspicion that Hercules was Saji's dad, having faked his own death and doing whatever it took in pursuit of the truth, and somewhere along the way assuming a more active role in changing the world. It made sense a few episodes back, at least to me, but I won't go into further detail on the specifics; now, it's obviously not possible, so I figured I might as well share it here so that everyone can feel some self-assurance; "Well, at least I didn't come up with that stupid idea".

My personal pet theory is that Saji's father got knocked off for almost uncovering CB before they were ready, or that he was a CB agent who crossed the wrong people. Make for a dramatic circle an all that.