The Official Gundam 00 Season 2 Thread Mk IV

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Post by Draco Starcloud » Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:09 pm

Episode 17's "fight scene" is definately one of my favorite moments in the entire series.

I don't like Mr. Bushido as much as I did Graham. He's taken his Gundam lust way too much to heart. If Mr. Bushido had been in that Flag instead of Graham back in Azadistan in Season 1, he probably would have gone after the Exia, public relations be damned.
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Post by Recon 5 » Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:21 pm

I think we should remember that Graham had blood streaming out of his mouth during the Trans-AM battle. He's probably back at base nursing internal G-Force injuries. We might even find that the faux TA had permanent side effects when he returns to the battlefield.
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Post by Dean_the_Young » Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:50 pm

Recon 5 wrote:I think we should remember that Graham had blood streaming out of his mouth during the Trans-AM battle. He's probably back at base nursing internal G-Force injuries. We might even find that the faux TA had permanent side effects when he returns to the battlefield.
It's not like blood has ever slowed him down before (something I found disappointing in S1). Since it wasn't shown, there's no reason to assume that that's why he isn't flying.
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Post by Dark Duel » Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:19 pm

On the subject of Papa Bear's demise: As much as it pains and saddens me, Sergei Smirnov is, quite apparently, dead - or at the very least, that was a by-the-book Gundam Death Scene as plain as they come. I'm still wiping the tears from my eyes.I have taken the liberty of making this in his memory.

Rest in Peace, Wild Bear. *salutes*

Setting aside that tearful epilogue, this episode reminded me vaguely of all the Neo-Zeon and Londo Bell MS aiding the Nu Gundam in the end of Char's Counterattack, but it was done so much better this time, I think. To my mind, this episode stands as one of the best in either season of this series.
Likewise, I enjoyed the background on Sergei and that other guy, Hercules.
Also, I seriously found the "Trans-Am Raiser", as it's called, and its high-orbital beam saber to be all kinds of badass. I also really like the GN Archer, and hope to see more of it.
That said, I have to say I stand with the majority and hate Andrei's guts at this point. I just hope Marie/Soma's the one to make him pay.
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Post by T.V. » Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:22 pm

I just want to chime in and say this episode was an intense and enjoyable watch.
Obviously one of the budgethoggers too.

I like the turn in the Smirnovs' plotline, though I'm saddened to see Sergei go.
His 'convenient' mounting change to the Tieren ART is a bit too "buy this recolored Toazi!" considering its brief appearance, but that was one of the few minor dissonants of this episode.
With Sergei gone, will Soma exact revenge, or will she and Andrei eventually learn to reconcile (when they learn the truth)?

Andrei obviously ate from the same apple Louise did: Rage + missunderstanding = finding the wrong outlet.
The consequnces are tragic, wrong even, but understandable nonetheless.
I reckon in normal circumstances he should be courtmartialled, but being part of A-LAWS doessn't make it 'normal'.

I saw little posts concerning Ribbons' appearance in this episode, but I found his little disclosure pretty important.
He's responsible for awakening/creating the other Innovators and he finally admitted (to Regene) he wants himself to be humanity's guide.

Closing thoughts:
2 Memento Mori's down, 1 to go?
And with Sergei being "Ramb00 Ral", I guess his son Andrei is now cemented as Gundam00's Jerid Messa? :P

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Post by scythedd7 » Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:09 am

T.V. wrote:I like the turn in the Smirnovs' plotline, though I'm saddened to see Sergei go.
His 'convenient' mounting change to the Tieren ART is a bit too "buy this recolored Toazi!" considering its brief appearance, but that was one of the few minor dissonants of this episode.

. . .

Closing thoughts:
2 Memento Mori's down, 1 to go?
No, it just means that I actually want a Taozi now rather then that pink thing.

And I think so to, it only make sense, cause the Memento Mori wouldn't have been able to get past those elevators on that lower ring. I bet its on the segment over the Pacific between the Indonesia and South America towers
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Post by ZeonsSilverStar » Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:16 am

Seeing Mr. Bushido assisting in the destruction of the debris would have been too much of a dream come true. Besides his lack of long range weaponry would be a hindrance.

Anyway I'm more interested in the remaining Innovators. I had read some where that there is suppose to be a plan to capture an Innovator, if true it most likely be difficult to accomplish.
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Post by Tsar » Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:25 am

ZeonsSilverStar wrote:Anyway I'm more interested in the remaining Innovators. I had read some where that there is suppose to be a plan to capture an Innovator, if true it most likely be difficult to accomplish.
Well if that occurred I'd assume the most plausible Innovator to capture (while ruling out Tieria and speculated Anew) would be Regetta due to being connected to Tiera.

I apologize for somewhat changing the topic off Andrei and the elevator, however I am surprised no one has mentioned Setsuna's tone this recent episode. When Setsuna appeared with his eyes widened I felt as if he changed quite a bit. Nevermind that when he launched he said, "Setsuna F. Seiei, launching" rather than the usual, "00 Gundam, Setsuna F. Seiei, launching". During his screen time all I could think of was Tieria's quote from episode 3, "you don't need to force yourself to change." Maybe he was just still a bit woozy from medical treatment but *shrugs*
Does anyone else find any significance in his slight change in behavior?

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Post by ZeonsSilverStar » Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:13 am

Regene huh I kinda figured it be Revive or Healing being that their pilots but then again you never know.
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Post by hotlimit » Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:30 am

I was setting myself up for a boring episode (that preview with Setsuna all layed up in sick bay had me worried) and it turned out to be one of the most intense Gundam episodes I've ever seen. 42 episodes have gone by in a flash!

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Post by Lans » Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:19 am

The last 12 minutes and 53 seconds (just after 00 Raiser fail) the show turns out to be an EPIC. Still for 11 minutes and 15 seconds, minus the opening; the show was moderate at best. I thought the show was going to “random Sunrise Lunacy” direction following the other weak episode but my, oh my, this is a good one. I’m gonna miss my Russian Bear, but good to know that he died in a good episode. I ignore the fact that it is Andrei that killed him for… well, seriously I have no more comment about Andrei, I agree with what Chris had said. I always feel that his characterization is weak and probably only serve several and specific purpose in the show.

However, I can’t believe my eyes when looking at what Soma have piloted, that thing is ugly. And what the heck with 00 Riser MEGA BEAM shot, isn’t it a bit too much even for Gundam 00 Riser Trans AM to “suddenly” have that kind of ability? Not to mention that somebody might forgot to add more armour plating to 2nd Memento Mori, its sister.. well, colony-satellite seems to be more durable than that. and I laughed when another unknown Innovator along with his suit joined the ranks of CANNON FODDER. and so much for Hercules, IMO he died too fast after his introduction. Sunrise shouldn’t introduce character for one plot and killed them the next day, that’s as weak as the monster-of-the-week concept.

Edit: I wonder will they consider to change the op? It doesn't fell fit even after several episodes.

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Post by Sulendil Zeta » Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:58 am

lans* wrote:However, I can’t believe my eyes when looking at what Soma have piloted, that thing is ugly. And what the heck with 00 Riser MEGA BEAM shot, isn’t it a bit too much even for Gundam 00 Riser Trans AM to “suddenly” have that kind of ability? Not to mention that somebody might forgot to add more armour plating to 2nd Memento Mori, its sister.. well, colony-satellite seems to be more durable than that. and I laughed when another unknown Innovator along with his suit joined the ranks of CANNON FODDER. and so much for Hercules, IMO he died too fast after his introduction. Sunrise shouldn’t introduce character for one plot and killed them the next day, that’s as weak as the monster-of-the-week concept.

Edit: I wonder will they consider to change the op? It doesn't fell fit even after several episodes.
Well, what 00 Raiser is doing in that episode is deploying a system called Raiser system, which needed a pilot in 0 Raiser. And those armour is quite strong, IMHO. It didn't cleaves into half even 00 Raiser using its ultra big beam saber. And while his screenshot is short, I found that Hercules is at least an interesting character, a contrast to Sergei. But agree with the rest of your post.

Speaking of Innovator, anyone wonders who Ribbons and co. wants to have a talk to?

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Post by Aegis » Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:23 am

lans* wrote: And what the heck with 00 Riser MEGA BEAM shot, isn’t it a bit too much even for Gundam 00 Riser Trans AM to “suddenly” have that kind of ability? Not to mention that somebody might forgot to add more armour plating to 2nd Memento Mori, its sister.. well, colony-satellite seems to be more durable than that.
At the risk of losing much of your power and fall back like a rock? That's a truly a last ditch move than anything else, and for what it's worth, the Memento Mori still remained relatively intact before blowing up, and Trans Am Raiser still couldn't stop the laser from causing the elevator to fall.

Hercule in the few episodes he showed up was still a good character altogether, so I had no complaints other than the fact he got killed off. :P And what Sergei did all those years, and the last words he said to Andrei, my respect for him just went up THAT much more. As if he wasn't awesome before. :P

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Post by Gadget » Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:37 am

MM is armored. MM1 got destroyed when the Seravee in Trans-Am hyperburst, then the Cherudim destroyed the power core. and after MM1 got trashed, like Death Star 2, it got even more amour.

I wonder after Sergi's death, Somma may become more dominant. I may explain her willingness to go back fighting.

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Post by Recon 5 » Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:15 am

lans* wrote:Sunrise shouldn’t introduce character for one plot and killed them the next day, that’s as weak as the monster-of-the-week concept.
Think of it as a war documentary being filmed on the battlefield. I think that having Andrei just let Hercules escape or put in a Deus Ex Machina to "save him for five more episodes of character development" would have been much stronger.
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Post by NovaGundam5683 » Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:05 pm

I really enjoyed this episode. It was moving that, for at least that moment, CB, Renpou (the Federation), A-Laws, and Kataron fought side by side to save the people. If I were a soldier at that moment I would've gladly given my life protecting what a solder is supposed to defend. IMO...best episode of the series...by far.

I think Soma will be making a comeback. I don't think she's gonna take Papa Bear's death lying down. As many others have already pointed out misunderstanding fueled by rage leads to tragedy. I have to wonder now how this'll all play out in the end.
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Post by Casval Rem Daikun » Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:18 pm

Dean_the_Young wrote:
Neo_Senku wrote:The only way you could have gotten Grah.....Mr. Bushido to help out is if 00 Gundams were painted on all of the falling debris.
Nah, you'd just have to put it in terms of of surpassing Gundam.

"What? The two-drive destroyed one hundred pieces in a minute? I'll destroy twice that many with just one sword."
So now it's Rock Lee piloting the Masurao now? Great... :roll:

Anyway, didn't anyone notice the part when CB broke up the fight where he considered staying but noticed his particle count was low and decided that hanging around would be dumb, even for him?

He has no ranged weapons, doesn't even seem to have GN vulcans either, and those swords must be a drain on the Tau drive. Given the minimalist design of the suit and it's Trans-GrahAM ability, I doubt it has the same endurance as an Ahead. That plus the hacking up blood would make him pretty useless in that scenario.

I suppose he could've charged up real quick or simply swapped drives and headed back, but he'd have needed to grab a gun, or suddenly bust out a new ability like the Turn-A's spinning beam sabre shields (which would have looked cool) but the best role for his suit would have been shielding the civilians from whatever bits got through the main force while shepherding them to shelter. Pre-Bushido Graham would have done that albeit a little reluctantly, but Bushido Graham's too obsessed/selfish to be bothered.

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Post by pew-pew-pew » Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:16 pm

ZeonsSilverStar wrote: Anyway I'm more interested in the remaining Innovators. I had read some where that there is suppose to be a plan to capture an Innovator, if true it most likely be difficult to accomplish.
This is the type of spoiler material that we all would like to see in really, really, really small font. thankx
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Post by Soul Bro Ryu » Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:34 pm

I gotta throw a flag on the play here. (Sorry, still getting over the Super Bowl...)

Andrei gets a red card. Sure, it's a battlefield, but I'll be damned if there wasn't an unofficial truce going on at the time due to the crisis of the falling tower. This coward, on his own accord raced in and attacked Hank Hercules without warning (not that it was required) and then murdered his father with so much as a chance of letting him explain himself first.

I could understand if there were no words exchanged. Then it would have been a righteous kill based in anonymity and I could accept that. Much like Bernie & Chrissy Mac in 0080. Tragic but fair. However, I present the evidence that makes this patricide straight up and down:

- Sergei & Andrei recognized each other seconds into the conflict.
- Sergei defended himself from his son who was openly aggressive and lacking composure at a moment in his life where it was desperately needed.
- Sergei was clearly in an inferior suit.
- Once disarming him, knowing full well who the pilot was, Andrei did not hesitate in killing him.

Andrei's entire purpose in joining the military was to prove to his father that Sergei's battlefield principles (the cause of his mother's death - allegedly) were wrong and he was there to inevitably prove him wrong. That is all for naught now he's committed patricide, and despite catching his father at the wrong place and the wrong time, just based on his righteous indignation alone, Sergei wasn't justifiable in the slightest.

A-LAWS is a shoot-first, ask questions later-type of organization. No one can argue against that. But the second that this became a family matter, Andrei had the choice to kill of capture his father. It was clear that Sergei was trying to establish a dialogue and Andrei just didn't want to listen. Blood lust was in his heart and his anemically-harbored grudge against his pops was just a weak excuse to settle the score with him. Sergei admitted that he was reticent in not reconnecting with his son, something that has haunted him since Holly's death, but when the best opportunity came along to get those feelings off of their chests, his son took the easy way out. He'd rather be right about his so-called convictions instead of forcing his father to explain his reasons behind Holly's demise.

You'd figured by now Andrei would have investigated the truth behind her death by now. And being in the military, especially an outfit like A-LAWS, that deaths from friendly fire happen on the battlefield all the time. And for Smirnov to order a maneuver that would result in his wife's death must have been the hardest decision of his life. Being an adult now upon being soldier, Andrei should have realized this, but instead he's still that pouty little boy that his mother left behind.

I despise this guy outright, and although I want to see Marie/Soma reduce him to a skid mark, I know she's going to spare him for Sergei's sake. Regardless, I wouldn't want to be Andrei right now.
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Post by Dean_the_Young » Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:02 pm

- Sergei was clearly in an inferior suit.
*sigh*
:roll:

Ignoring how... silly, a good deal of that argument is, and the fact that I don't feel like arguing about it anymore, patricide is not a separate crime in itself. Just like any other time one kills another, it's either justified/acceptable or not. Patricide is merely when the father is killed by the child, and nothing else. It could be murder, it could be a pure accident, it could be applying mercy, or a devil's delimma That's why we don't charge people for patricide, matricide, fratricide and so on when they kill family members. We charge them for whatever the appropriate crime is, same as if they killed anyone else.
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