The Official Gundam 00 Anime Thread Mk 16

[Exia]

Actually, Arios deployed its claw mode, grabbed unto the enemy and then crushed through it.

It looked to me that the designer of Arios integrated the claw in the MA form of Arios. A good decision in my opinion.
Also, it seems that A-Laws have spies within the Federation military as well. Or was the soldier who overheard the conversation between Saji and Sergei only too eager to report possible informations about Kataron to HQ? What makes me wonder (until i see the sub that is) why did Ribbons send Ali to Azadistan? Does he want to stirr up the conflicts between all parties?

[Shinji103]

What makes me wonder (until i see the sub that is) why did Ribbons send Ali to Azadistan? Does he want to stirr up the conflicts between all parties?

It sounds like maybe Livonze/Ribbons has some plans in store for Marina. He and Regene were talking about her being taken in for questioning by A-LAWS back in episode 3. And when Regen asked him why he had left her alone, he simply replied "You know why," kinda making it a bit ominous. Still only speculation at the moment, though.

[Laevatein]

Also, it seems that A-Laws have spies within the Federation military as well. Or was the soldier who overheard the conversation between Saji and Sergei only too eager to report possible informations about Kataron to HQ?

More like the latter actually, since if you know useful info, use it. In this case, the guard used his initiative as all good soldiers do - good for the organization, bad for your enemies.

Although there is the issue of chain of command in this case, still the soldier was right in doing what he did tactically speaking.

[CarbonStereoxide]

well, that episode was good, Kyrios mark II was awesome (can't spell the name of that Gundam hehe) and ALI IS BACK!

If you think your day sucks as hell, always think of Saji Crossroad and be happy your not him!

[Areku]

I was surprised to see Soma hesitate like that. She even got by beam pistols. Can't say I blame her for not shooting Cherudim in the back right then, though.

well, that episode was good, Kyrios mark II was awesome (can't spell the name of that Gundam hehe)

Arios; it's spelled the same way as Kyrios, except with an "A" instead of "Ky".

[CarbonStereoxide]

I was surprised to see Soma hesitate like that. She even got by beam pistols. Can't say I blame her for not shooting Cherudim in the back right then, though.

well, that episode was good, Kyrios mark II was awesome (can't spell the name of that Gundam hehe)

Arios; it's spelled the same way as Kyrios, except with an "A" instead of "Ky".

ok thanks, the new names for the Gundams of Lockon and Tieria's are more harder to spell haha

[Dean_the_Young]

Some thoughts.

-I've had this thought for some time, but can't it be said that Ali has been working for Celestial Being (even if inadvertantly) for most of the series now? The moment he got the Aggressor mobile armor, he's been used and utilized by Ribbons/Alejandro/Laguna, who, even if usurpers, were all part of Celestial Being. The Thrones were part of Celestial Being, Laguna was part of Celestial being, and even Ali was a tool for Celestial Being, which really does confirm the suckage on Saji's part, as (part of) Celestial Being really did screw up everything for him.

-Shinji103 already covered why I don't think Saji can be blasted as being uber-naive; he didn't tell the people beating him, did tell the trustworthy guy. And even if telling Sergei was bad, so what? Saji really doesn't owe any loyalty to Celestial Being: Setsuna saving his life by chance in episode 1 doesn't negate the fact that no of that, or any of the other tragedies, would have happened had Celestial Being not intervened in the first place. Saving someone from the consequences of your own actions isn't a reason to expect them to thank and like you.

-Marina with the children was sickeningly cute. And I do mean sickeningly.

-What was Saji's argument with Setsuna? Was he angry that Setsuna pretty much dumped him with the rebels, with no consultation?

-Soma and Sergei had a nice heart-to-heart, going by the background music. Looking forward to hearing about that.

-What is Graham, I mean, Mr. Bushido's position anyway? He was clearly separate from the direct chain of command during Kati's assignment, and he pretty much left before the slaughter began, even though there were gundams to fight. Is he autonomous, and doesn't want to dirty his own hands even while in the A-LAWS?

-Why slaughter Azadistan? What's the point, other than to prove how evil Ali is?

[Exia]

Some thoughts.

-I've had this thought for some time, but can't it be said that Ali has been working for Celestial Being (even if inadvertantly) for most of the series now? The moment he got the Aggressor mobile armor, he's been used and utilized by Ribbons/Alejandro/Laguna, who, even if usurpers, were all part of Celestial Being. The Thrones were part of Celestial Being, Laguna was part of Celestial being, and even Ali was a tool for Celestial Being, which really does confirm the suckage on Saji's part, as (part of) Celestial Being really did screw up everything for him.

Ali is not working for Celestial Being but rather for himself. He was hired from people who were part of Celestial Being but exploited their knowledge to gain more power (i think Lagna wanted more ecconomical power and Alejandro wanted political power).

[Dean_the_Young]

Ali is not working for Celestial Being but rather for himself. He was hired from people who were part of Celestial Being but exploited their knowledge to gain more power (i think Lagna wanted more ecconomical power and Alejandro wanted political power).

And Setsuna pilots to be like Gundam. So what of the motivation? Ali has worked to further Celestial Being's interests, even if only for his own self-interest and not for any love of the world. The motivation doesn't change the fact that he's been a tool for Celestial Being.

[Windknight]

Ali is not working for Celestial Being but rather for himself. He was hired from people who were part of Celestial Being but exploited their knowledge to gain more power (i think Lagna wanted more ecconomical power and Alejandro wanted political power).

And Setsuna pilots to be like Gundam. So what of the motivation? Ali has worked to further Celestial Being's interests, even if only for his own self-interest and not for any love of the world. The motivation doesn't change the fact that he's been a tool for Celestial Being.

Ali isn't a deep man. He likes to fight, to kill, and cause chaos.

He doesn't CARE who he works for, so long as he can do anything or kill anyone he wants.

[Dean_the_Young]

Ali isn't a deep man. He likes to fight, to kill, and cause chaos.

He doesn't CARE who he works for, so long as he can do anything or kill anyone he wants.

And that disputes that he's been a tool, even a part, of Celestial Being... how?

[Areku]

Ali has been a tool so far, but I think it's a distortion to say he's been part of CB; this implies that he has some idealistic attachment to the actions of Laguna/Alejandro/Ribbons or a permanent role with them. He's essentially a mercenary, looking for action/money, and it's a false assumption to lump him in with the group that provides this for him. It'd be like saying Blackwater is part of the US State Department because they're performing security roles for them (for a fee), or saying that bounty hunters are part of traditional law enforcement because they capture individuals who eluded them (for a fee). Ali is Ali, his own man, his own demon, he just happens to have a relationship with "CB" at the moment because they currently offer him what he wants (violence, money and new toys).

[Oruma]

And the way it worked was that Saji told Sergei, who is a guy to be trusted, and it was another soldier who was eavesdropping (who was roughing up Saji earlier, and who Saji didn't spill anything to) who told A-LAWS. So yeah, unless you're saying Saji was naive for trusting Sergei, "Saji hate" fails. Actually wait, "Saji hate" still fails then. Sergei also gave that particular soldier a piece of his mind later, btw.

And to be honest, is it really Saji's fault for not taking somebody's word that an official government organization would massacre people like that? Would we just believe an accused terrorist that said the U.S. was murdering people in some far-off country? I don't recall ever seeing any hard info on A-LAWS being bad. And even to us viewers, the worst we've seen until now was a bunch of suspected Kataron activists (and obviously, a bunch of them were in fact part of Kataron) getting mowed down by Automatons. Hardly "OMFG, THEY BE EVIL!!" material. Please, let's get real and not give in to the blind hate here.

But I loved the Sergei punch.

I am ambivalent about your argument. On the one hand, it WAS that overly eager/ambitious underling of Sergei's who set off the whole chain of events. Imagine what Sergei would look to you, if you've been wrongly accused of a crime, a half second from a horrible death, and on the run for nearly a month (my estimate); then someone comes along, humane and understanding, and actually try to help you clear your name. And yet, the Cosmos hate you and screw you up anyways.

On the other hand...there's the fact that in episode 1 of season 2, Saji himself was involved in one of those, ar, anti-terrorist operations of A-Laws. He did see first hand what A-Laws was capable of. Had Setsuna not intervened Mr. Crossroad would be rotting in Proud (literally) right now.

My opinion: If Saji had run up to an A-Law officer and spill the beans, THAT would be a truly idiotic move. But he didn't. What happened was unforeseen and unintentional (on Saji's & Sergei's part).

[SNT1]

And the way it worked was that Saji told Sergei, who is a guy to be trusted, and it was another soldier who was eavesdropping (who was roughing up Saji earlier, and who Saji didn't spill anything to) who told A-LAWS. So yeah, unless you're saying Saji was naive for trusting Sergei, "Saji hate" fails. Actually wait, "Saji hate" still fails then. Sergei also gave that particular soldier a piece of his mind later, btw.

No, that's not it all. I agree Sergei is a guy to be trusted (after all he doesn't trust A-LAWS as well), and you can't control a douche A-LAWS wannabe that eavesdrops.

I dislike Saji's selfish, hippie attitude. Wars are bad? Yeah. But that don't mean you don't fight back when you're being abused. He's seen first hand how A-LAWS torture suspected Kataron members. He's seen what the Thrones really are and how they're not CB, that it was them who really destroyed his life, not CB. Granted CB in S1 was pretty much a rogue organization of questionable morals he really didn't QQ about them much until it affected him directly. Selfish bastard. He doesn't approve of Kataron and CB's actions, so he escapes, if he hadn't done that, he wouldn't have had guilt for what happened.

His angst at the end was delicious. Serves him right. Mind you, I would have defended the poor kid for the first 28 episodes give/take for his naivete, but he knows everything now after talking to quite a few CB people, and it just whoooooshed over him. No excuse, hippie.

Saji/Setsuna convo pretty much nails it:

Saji: I had peace until YOU bastards came along and ruined my life
Setsuna: So it's ok that you have peace yet others still suffer?
Saji: <speechless>

I don't recall ever seeing any hard info on A-LAWS being bad. And even to us viewers, the worst we've seen until now was a bunch of suspected Kataron activists (and obviously, a bunch of them were in fact part of Kataron) getting mowed down by Automatons.

EH. If someone believes that despite the obviously Gestapo A-LAWS evidences, then I guess it's hard to argue. I mean, it's not gassing colonies bad (which some would make a logical fallacy that if it's not Titans bad, it's not bad at all!), but damn. That's blind.

[Oruma]

(1) my respect for Sergei increased exponentially today. He's got brains, he's got self-esteem, he's humane, he's got honor. Now, all we need to do is learn the exact circumstances to his wife's death...
(2) Lockon II showed a hint of his true skills today, in his desperation to destroy the automatons. His (MS) gun akimbo is on par with Chow Yu-Fat
(3) look like the kids would survive and follow Marina. Problem is, "princess poor" can't even take care of herself

More like the latter actually, since if you know useful info, use it. In this case, the guard used his initiative as all good soldiers do - good for the organization, bad for your enemies.

...save the fact that Sergei's crew are regular Federation officers. That guard isn't part of A-Laws.
Of course, he can be an ambitious A-Laws sympathizer hoping to get in

ok thanks, the new names for the Gundams of Lockon and Tieria's are more harder to spell haha

I just call them "Cher" and "Sev"

[Exia]

No, that's not it all. I agree Sergei is a guy to be trusted (after all he doesn't trust A-LAWS as well), and you can't control a douche A-LAWS wannabe that eavesdrops.

I dislike Saji's selfish, hippie attitude. Wars are bad? Yeah. But that don't mean you don't fight back when you're being abused. He's seen first hand how A-LAWS torture suspected Kataron members. He's seen what the Thrones really are and how they're not CB, that it was them who really destroyed his life, not CB. Granted CB in S1 was pretty much a rogue organization of questionable morals he really didn't QQ about them much until it affected him directly. Selfish bastard. He doesn't approve of Kataron and CB's actions, so he escapes, if he hadn't done that, he wouldn't have had guilt for what happened.

His angst at the end was delicious. Serves him right. Mind you, I would have defended the poor kid for the first 28 episodes give/take for his naivete, but he knows everything now after talking to quite a few CB people, and it just whoooooshed over him. No excuse, hippie.

Saji/Setsuna convo pretty much nails it:

Saji: I had peace until YOU bastards came along and ruined my life
Setsuna: So it's ok that you have peace yet others still suffer?
Saji: <speechless>

I agree with you. I think Saji wasn't naive he was just stupid. I mean telling an Federation officer (no matter how trustworthy he appears) where the hideout of an anti-Federation group is. What wil the Federation do? They will of course use their task force the A-Laws to destroy this hideout. And since Saji witnessed their methods firsthand in episode 1 he should have known what will happen. I hope someone gives him a good beating.
On another note it's interesting to see Soma so paralyzed during a battle. In S1 she was a strong willed pilot who didn't show any hesitation. But it's differnet to kill someone who has a chance to fight back and to slaughter people who are defenseless.

[SNT1]

Spending 5 years with a morally sound fella will do that---Soma certainly acts more 'human' these last 5 episodes than she did in S1.

[Dean_the_Young]

I dislike Saji's selfish, hippie attitude. Wars are bad? Yeah. But that don't mean you don't fight back when you're being abused. He's seen first hand how A-LAWS torture suspected Kataron members.

He has? Since when? Proud colony was a high-gravity penal colony, but I don't remember torture being implied. Rough police, sure, unfair, sure, but torture?

He's seen what the Thrones really are and how they're not CB, that it was them who really destroyed his life, not CB.

No, he knows that the Thrones were not part of the Ptolemy. They were a part of Celestial Being, though, just as Ribbons, Alejandro, the Trinities, Wang Liu, and Laguna all are/were part of Celestial Being.

Granted CB in S1 was pretty much a rogue organization of questionable morals he really didn't QQ about them much until it affected him directly. Selfish bastard.

What in heaven's name is wrong with this? Saji pretty much exemplified what Celestial Being said it was aiming for: a world of peace and no conflicts. Saji didn't get in conflicts with others, even when they were pushy with him.

His angst at the end was delicious. Serves him right. Mind you, I would have defended the poor kid for the first 28 episodes give/take for his naivete, but he knows everything now after talking to quite a few CB people, and it just whoooooshed over him. No excuse, hippie.

Serves him right? No, serving him right would have been putting him back in the civilian world where he could peacefully live the rest of his life.

Enjoying a tragedy at his expense? That just sounds petty. What exactly has been vindicated? That Saji has poor judgement in people he can trust? That Saji is a back-stabbing traitor?

Saji/Setsuna convo pretty much nails it:

Saji: I had peace until YOU bastards came along and ruined my life
Setsuna: So it's ok that you have peace yet others still suffer?
Saji: <speechless>

The answer to that question is yes, by the way.

Who is Setsuna or Celestial Being to decide what's right? The fundamental difference between Celestial Being and Saji is that while they both have a view of how the world should be, one doesn't seek to use thirty-foot tall war machines to blow up everyone they don't agree with.

[Exia]

Who is Setsuna or Celestial Being to decide what's right? The fundamental difference between Celestial Being and Saji is that while they both have a view of how the world should be, one doesn't seek to use thirty-foot tall war machines to blow up everyone they don't agree with.

So you would say that Celestial Being's interventions were wrong? They fought against terrorists, tried to solve conflicts over resources and to prevent rebellions or civil wars from starting. And on another note, the original Meisters never targeted civilians they only fought against soldiers.

[azrael]

Spending 5 years with a morally sound fella will do that---Soma certainly acts more 'human' these last 5 episodes than she did in S1.

Perhaps Sergei taught her how to show some emotion, i.e. be human after being a soldier all her life.

As a Dark Knight once said, "people need dramatic examples to shake them out of apathy". Saji being responsible for the deaths at the Cataron base should be enough for him to realize the type of world he lives in.