The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

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False Prophet
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by False Prophet » Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:26 pm

yazi88 wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 6:00 pm
Max is confirmed in the movie and is using a custom YF-29.
Please don't tell me that they put the old man in a Valkyrie?!

Also, here is the poster for the Evil!Walkure: https://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/4787143 I can't help but to think they were made for Uta Macross because, you know, there are tons of alternate versions of a character.

And finally, with the Frontier movie, are we going to get into another problem with the Protoculture/Bird People? I like to think that the movie is about Ranka visiting Earth.

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by yazi88 » Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:37 am

He was already a old man in Macross 7, around 50 years old.

In the Macross universe, humans learned over-tech thanks to Zentradi integration, which also means humans live longer too.

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Seto Kaiba » Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:16 am

It certainly looks like they're wheeling out Max in an attempt to save this film...

He's 75 at the time this movie is set, which is really just embarrassing. Either Xaos screwed up so bad that Max had to come out of retirement to save their bacon, or Xaos's reputation is so deep in the toilet they had to pay out for celebrity endorsement from Max.

Any way you shake it, this is just gonna make Delta Flight look worse by comparison because now you have the MOST celebrated ace of all time and the most-recurring Macross character stealing the spotlight in a VF that outclasses the VF-31 by an enormous margin.


Also, for the record, there's no anti-aging tech that's been presented in Macross setting thus far. Max and Milia look younger than they are for the sake of an in-joke. As Kawamori put it, growing old is a state of mind for normal men... and Max is a genius. Everyone else from the same time period as them looks their actual age like Richard Bilra, Mao Nome, General Gomez, Colonel Miller, or President Glass.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by False Prophet » Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:03 am

What are the chance of Max actually turning himself into a cyborg... nah, I don't think it will be the case.

That said, we haven't got a good look at the YF-29 Max pilots, right? I wonder if it belonged to NUNS or Xaos?

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by yazi88 » Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:49 am

I believe it said Xaos on the wings of his YF-29.

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by pirx » Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:17 am

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:16 am
He's 75 at the time this movie is set, which is really just embarrassing.
Tell that to ABBA

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by SonicSP » Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:29 am

Max is the Zlatan Ibrahimović of the Macross world.

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Dark Duel » Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:41 pm

yazi88 wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:49 am
I believe it said Xaos on the wings of his YF-29.
Near as I can tell from this, I think you're right. At least, there are no NUNS markings I can see on it, and those markings on the leading edge of the wing, in between the main body and the engine pods, look like they say "χάος", which would be the Greek form of "chaos"
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Seto Kaiba » Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:00 pm

pirx wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:17 am
Tell that to ABBA
They're ABBA... I'm pretty sure they already know.


False Prophet wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:03 am
What are the chance of Max actually turning himself into a cyborg... nah, I don't think it will be the case.
It's illegal, so close to zero.

False Prophet wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:03 am
That said, we haven't got a good look at the YF-29 Max pilots, right? I wonder if it belonged to NUNS or Xaos?
It's got Xaos markings, but it's unlikely it actually belongs to Xaos.

Like Strategic Military Services (SMS) and both the VF-25s and Macross Quarter in Macross Frontier, Xaos doesn't actually OWN the VF-31s it's operating in the Macross Delta TV series. Those VF-31A's - and the five of them that were converted into Siegfrieds - were on loan from the Brisingr Alliance New UN Forces. Xaos was hired, like SMS was hired, to perform operational evaluation on those next-generation fighters in place of NUNS test pilots for legal reasons. Specifically, because if a private security employee snuffs it during testing in live combat there's much less red tape for the military or the manufacturer because they're not a soldier and it's legally considered an accidental death.

Given that the YF-29's extensive use of ultra-high purity fold quartz makes it bankruptingly expensive to build, and Xaos's dire financial straits, I suspect this one's on loan from some government. As it's Max, probably the 37th Large Scale Long Distance Emigrant Fleet's.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by hitokirigarou » Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:49 am

https://twitter.com/GwynCampbell/status ... 4722362374

Is it true that Macross II is part of the main timeline?

EDIT: Already got my answer: Not in the same continuity as Plus, 7, Frontier, and Delta.

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Seto Kaiba » Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:57 am

hitokirigarou wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:49 am
https://twitter.com/GwynCampbell/status ... 4722362374

Is it true that Macross II is part of the main timeline?

EDIT: Already got my answer: Not in the same continuity as Plus, 7, Frontier, and Delta.
As I noted on MacrossWorld, this is a bad terminology problem.

Macross II: Lovers Again is a part of the official Macross setting/franchise, but it's still a Parallel World story that's not in continuity with the titles that came after it.

Kawamori, of course, is on the record as not giving a flip about little things like continuity because he sees each title in the franchise as a stand-alone dramatization of some real history we're not privy to, so it's a "Yes and no" sort of thing. They're part of the same broad strokes "universe", but they're not in continuity with each other.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by False Prophet » Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:01 pm

So... I've just read the spoiler of the movie.
Spoiler
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So much for "Never visiting Megaroad-1". Lady M is literary trapped inside Megaroad-1 and still somehow finds a way to command Xaos. I don't know wether to applaud to critize Kawamori for keeping up the charade for this long.

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Seto Kaiba » Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:43 pm

False Prophet wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:01 pm
So... I've just read the spoiler of the movie.
Spoiler
Show
So much for "Never visiting Megaroad-1". Lady M is literary trapped inside Megaroad-1 and still somehow finds a way to command Xaos. I don't know wether to applaud to critize Kawamori for keeping up the charade for this long.
Yeah, I really hope these spoilers are dishonest people trolling.

The alternative is that this movie is going to be an absolute trashfire.

From the spoilers, it sounds like the writers couldn't come up with an actual plot and just decided to pile references to previous Macross titles together and hope someone mistook it for a story.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by SonicSP » Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:45 am

Haven't read the spoilers but from you all's reactions: yikes.

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by False Prophet » Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:48 am

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:43 pm
From the spoilers, it sounds like the writers couldn't come up with an actual plot and just decided to pile references to previous Macross titles together and hope someone mistook it for a story.
That is sadly an all too common problem in long-running franchises nowadays. Remember Star Wars episode 8 and 9? If what I've read is true, than it feels like all Satelight had in mind when they started making this movie was: "Making evil!Walkure" and "Getting Max to show up." And there are just so many things that could be explored in the Macross universe. Hell...
Spoiler
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You can do a better "AI is evil" story better than this movie.
Secondly, what have you heard about the Macross Frontier movie?
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The thing about Sheryl being in a coma since the second F movie feels like an ass-pull.
They probably want to make a 3rd Frontier movie. I hope they have some really good idea in mind.

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Seto Kaiba » Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:36 pm

False Prophet wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:48 am
That is sadly an all too common problem in long-running franchises nowadays. Remember Star Wars episode 8 and 9? [...]
Eh... that's rather different, IMO.

The Last Jedi's ill-considered efforts to subvert expectations were an attempt to answer the rather unkind but well-founded criticisms of The Force Awakens for being an unimaginative rehash of A New Hope with less likeable or interesting characters. Rise of Skywalker was a reaction to the even bigger backlash against The Last Jedi's attempts to subvert expectations, which resulted in Disney deciding to essentially write the final film by committee.

Macross Delta's issue was simply an underdeveloped story that leaned almost exclusively on promoting the idol group Walkure. That led to a weak series and a weak first movie. I feel like someone may have taken that group of writers aside and told them to make sure the second movie had more appeal.


False Prophet wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:48 am
[...] If what I've read is true, than it feels like all Satelight had in mind when they started making this movie was: "Making evil!Walkure" and "Getting Max to show up." And there are just so many things that could be explored in the Macross universe. Hell...
It's like there was some kind of obligation to turn a reference to every major Macross title into a plot point.
Spoiler
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Heimdall has supposedly discovered the true identity and location of "Lady M", someone aboard the SDF-2 Megaroad-01... a nod to the original SDF Macross series and Flash Back 2012.

The Star Singers - both Mikumo and the Delta Siren System - are all but indistinguishable from the emulators the Mardook used in Macross II: Lovers Again, especially in using songs for mind control and to command troops.

The DE-124 Delta Siren System itself is a next-generation virtuoid, making it basically a newer version of Sharon Apple from Macross Plus complete with controlling drone fighters. The drone fighters are VFs with a very unusual design similar to the Neo Glaug from Macross Plus: Game Edition.

Xaos has brought both Max Jenius and Exsedol Folmo out of retirement to command the Macross Grasion of the Listania garrison. Max also sorties in the top of the line special forces fighter painted bright blue when the rank and file can't get the job done, as in Macross 7.

The paramilitary organization Heimdall is a vaguely anti-government organization opposed to the New UN Gov't supposedly withholding advancements in certain technologies, not unlike the Anti-Unification Alliance opposed their technology sharing mandates. Their fighters are also developed by a design lab created by one of the SV-51's developers from Macross Zero.

Heimdall's flagship appears to be a salvaged Battle Galaxy from Macross Frontier, they make heavy use of AI and cyborg tech like Macross Galaxy did. The Megaroad-01 is also supposedly trapped in a fold fault, as was the New UN Government's cover story for the loss of the SDFN-04 General Bruno J. Global in Macross Frontier. The YF-29 returns, and there's also a Frontier mini-movie appended to the film that follows up the events of the second Frontier movie.
False Prophet wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:48 am
Secondly, what have you heard about the Macross Frontier movie?
Not much...
Spoiler
Show
Apparently it's set years after the events of the Macross Frontier second movie's ending, with Ranka touring Protoculture ruins and singing. Sheryl never comes out of her coma and Alto is still missing.
False Prophet wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:48 am
They probably want to make a 3rd Frontier movie. I hope they have some really good idea in mind.
It wouldn't surprise me, Frontier was more popular than Delta.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by False Prophet » Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:36 am

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:36 pm
False Prophet wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:48 am
That is sadly an all too common problem in long-running franchises nowadays. Remember Star Wars episode 8 and 9? [...]
Eh... that's rather different, IMO.

The Last Jedi's ill-considered efforts to subvert expectations were an attempt to answer the rather unkind but well-founded criticisms of The Force Awakens for being an unimaginative rehash of A New Hope with less likeable or interesting characters. Rise of Skywalker was a reaction to the even bigger backlash against The Last Jedi's attempts to subvert expectations, which resulted in Disney deciding to essentially write the final film by committee.

Macross Delta's issue was simply an underdeveloped story that leaned almost exclusively on promoting the idol group Walkure. That led to a weak series and a weak first movie. I feel like someone may have taken that group of writers aside and told them to make sure the second movie had more appeal.
What I want to make with the Star Wars comparison is about the feeling of directionless of these sequels. All three of them feel like jumbled mess created by too many people with too many different visions of what they want to make. And when the deadline was about to come, they panicked and threw everything into the script without any consideration for the flow and tempo of the story.

Also, if we're talking about Star Wars, didn't you say yourself that there is too many references in the Walkure movie? I always have this feeling that franchise movies nowadays are loaded with too many references, allusions, Easter eggs, etc. Like they are adding all these bells and whistles so that people on Youtube and Twitter could talk about and get themselves hyped until the inevitable follow-ups.

Anyway, I did hear that while Walkure said they would continue performing live, one of their members has just given birth. Would this be the end for the band?

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Seto Kaiba » Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:19 pm

False Prophet wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:36 am
What I want to make with the Star Wars comparison is about the feeling of directionless of these sequels. All three of them feel like jumbled mess created by too many people with too many different visions of what they want to make. And when the deadline was about to come, they panicked and threw everything into the script without any consideration for the flow and tempo of the story.

Also, if we're talking about Star Wars, didn't you say yourself that there is too many references in the Walkure movie? I always have this feeling that franchise movies nowadays are loaded with too many references, allusions, Easter eggs, etc. Like they are adding all these bells and whistles so that people on Youtube and Twitter could talk about and get themselves hyped until the inevitable follow-ups.
Eh... I feel like those are two very different problems.

The problem with the Star Wars sequel trilogy was, as the Emperor would've put it, a "lack of vision". It really doesn't feel like anyone bothered to plan it out at all, and after The Force Awakens was poorly received by its die-hard fans the writing process became reactive rather than proactive. They overcompensated for the audience's complaints with The Force Awakens in The Last Jedi, and when THAT led to an even bigger backlash and plummeting sales of licensed goods, the response was to make the last installment as middle-of-the-road as anyone could so that it would at least be inoffensive.

Macross Delta's problem almost the opposite. There was clearly a plan going into it, and they didn't deviate from it. The problem there was that the story they'd planned out was unoriginal and rather threadbare, relying a great deal on Walkure's music to carry the series in the absence of development for most of the characters and a great deal more on tie-ins to, and borrowed plots from, Macross Frontier in its ending. In the end, it feels more like a fan fiction full of "Original the Character: Do Not Steal" knockoffs of Frontier's cast than a new chapter in the franchise. For better or worse, they're riding that mistake all the way to the end.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by SonicSP » Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:03 am

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:19 pm
It really doesn't feel like anyone bothered to plan it out at all, and after The Force Awakens was poorly received by its die-hard fans the writing process became reactive rather than proactive.
JJ Abrams did write a full treatment for the two sequels as a guideline but Rian Johnson really wanted to put his stamp in (which would have been fine when directing a stand alone movie but not as a middle entry of a trilogy). I personally don't think it became too reactive until after Episode 8 to be honest, maybe a little bit before but I feel it's more Rian wanting to go that direction rather than a mandated reaction.

Carrie Fisher's tragic passing didn't help matters either since Colin Trevorrow's original Episode 9 script heavily involved her. Abrams's hands were tied as 9's replacement director due to Johnson burning up his pre-set plot points in 8, having to react to 8 backlash, as well as I assume needing to stick to a fairly tight release dateline.

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Chris » Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:58 pm

SonicSP wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:03 am
JJ Abrams did write a full treatment for the two sequels as a guideline but Rian Johnson really wanted to put his stamp in (which would have been fine when directing a stand alone movie but not as a middle entry of a trilogy). I personally don't think it became too reactive until after Episode 8 to be honest, maybe a little bit before but I feel it's more Rian wanting to go that direction rather than a mandated reaction.

Carrie Fisher's tragic passing didn't help matters either since Colin Trevorrow's original Episode 9 script heavily involved her. Abrams's hands were tied as 9's replacement director due to Johnson burning up his pre-set plot points in 8, having to react to 8 backlash, as well as I assume needing to stick to a fairly tight release dateline.
Not to take us too far off topic, but I can't imagine that Abram's treatment would've been particularly helpful to Johnson coming into it. Abrams is always obsessed with generating his "mystery boxes" and not so much with satisfyingly explaining them. Also, it's not like TLJ was some rogue production. Lucasfilm approved of his script and let him do what he wanted, so they obviously didn't have a problem with his approach then.

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