Spoiler
Ok, not really, but that was a highlight along with not-Talbot and May mirror match.
I'm not even going to attempt to pronounce that name. He's Scottish, isn't he?Destiny_Gundam wrote:I've been really impressed with Iain De Caestecker this season. Some one give that kid an Emmy.
I tried to add that to my post, but the forum gave me an error for a while.Destiny_Gundam wrote:Don't forget that next week they'll be showing the first trailer for Age of Ultron.
Comments on this above.Destiny_Gundam wrote:Redemption for Ward?Spoiler
Nope.avi.
Who said anything about a battle anywhere? I see what you're trying to say, but it doesn't change anythying. I'm not seeing anything new here.phillosmaster wrote:Ah... Ward murdered Agent Hand and Agent Koenig. It wasn't a straight up battle. He executed both of them. Both directly worked with Phil's team so I can't imagine that would be forgiven easily (granted I hated Agent Hand but that's a different matter). He sentenced Fitz and Simmons to death by dropping them into the ocean. They narrowly escaped with their lives because or Fitz's quick thinking and self sacrifice, but there is no way Ward knew that was going to happen. Just because he couldn't put a bullet into their heads doesn't make it any less of a murder attempt. He was going to turn Sky over to Garrett. All the while still pretending everything was business as usual.
He's given them nothing but good intel, and simply being locked up isn't as big a motivator to talk as you seem to think. Otherwise criminals, terrorists, and all the like would be spilling their guts just for being capured.In the end does Ward regret what he did? I think it's clear the show is telling us yes he didn't like that he had to betray Phil's team. Did he betray Phil's team? Yes he did? Did he murder Agents who thought he was a friend? Yes he did. Should they ever trust him again? No they should not. At no point did he act on his regret. Only now is he saying these things after they've caged him and given him no other options.
Which is exactly why I've been saying from the beginning that he'll be showing them he can be trusted over the season. Nobody said anything about them trusting him cold turkey, nor that it would be easy. As I just said in my previous post, I theorized between seasons that hed escape, which would give him the chance to show SHIELD he's not a villain. I doubt he'll even intend for it to happen at first.Ward is a spy just like many characters in the show. They are trained to lie and manipulate. It's impossible to trust anything he says. All they can go on is what they know and they know he is not loyal to their team. He may not be Hydra, but who knows what other party holds his loyalty. They'd be going on his word that he was only loyal to Garrett, and as he's shown in the past his word isn't worth anything. I'd assume everything he's saying is a load of crap if I were them.
Phil got played like a fool by a sadistic liar, which will undoubtedly bite him in the @$$ later.Phil's actions make sense. Ward isn't a person to him anymore. He's a resource. He kept him around for intel and now he saw a way to use him for a better gain. Makes sense to me. He doesn't care if Ward lives or dies at this point.
Which shows your thinking is different from Phil's.Now what I don't understand is why Phil would trust Hunter. I would have cut that guy loose. Given what we know now I'm guessing that has more to do with Bobbi, and her recommendation. Also that his betrayal was out of loyalty to Hartley, which in the end means he's still loyal to their agents. Still I don't think Phil should be taking these types of chances.
I know what you meant.phillosmaster wrote:That first part was to illustrate that Ward doesn't deserve sympathy.
I know it's impossible right now. I never said right now, I said over the course of the season.Ward making his way back into SHIELD should be impossible right now IMO. Yeah I agree I don't think like Phil, but I don't think I'm overplaying Ward's betrayal. I like the character, but I don't think he deserves a second chance. I love what they are doing with Ward(and I love the direction the series is taking) but seriously Ward is a douchebag. When the chips are up for Ward he never acted on his regret and helped his friends on Phil's team. Now the chips are way down and he's trying to be friends. Too bad buddy. Sucks to be you. They are right to question his sincerity and voice their disgust with him. Just because he gave good intel doesn't mean anything other than he's not loyal to Hyrda. Great. That doesn't mean they should trust him or like him.
Microchip or not, it wasn't a chip that made Spike want to get a soul. Therefore Ward doesn't need a chip to do good things again, and now that he's escaped just as I theorized before season 2 started, he has that opportunity. And who says Ward isn't going to go through hell go get his white hat back? That's what I'm saying: it's not going to be a process as simple as "Ward saves person A on the street and gets accepted backe." He'll undoubteddly play a large role in the fight against Hydra, and after lots of big things he'll finally earn his spot back. I'm all the more sure of it because it would utterly idiotic and just bad writing to have him join the bad guys for real. Though I wouldn't be surprised if he joined Hydra in order to work against them. He certainly has a more convincing resume than Simmons did, and it's all true.What I'm getting at is there needs to be something else narratively to make Ward Phil's man again. Didn't they put a microchip or something in Spike first. Then he got his Soul back. Then he was killed and came back as a ghost so ... that guy went through quite a bit to earn his White Hat. I'm expecting something as dramatic for Ward. Ward can't just have a change of heart. It's probably the thread in the second season I'm most interested in right now. Where are they going with Ward. I certainly didn't expect them to take Mike Peterson in the direction they did so they've done a good job taking characters in interesting directions.
No, but I think you're overdoing the "enjoying being evil" bit. He enjoyed working with Garret because he liked Garret and owed him his life, not the killing. That doesn't excuse him (you guys seem to think I'm trying to sweep his crimes under the rug), but it's different from "enjoying being evil." That conflicts with all the hesitations and regrets he showed after they took the sandbox, and that episode was the only time he showed enjoyment.Destiny_Gundam wrote:Shinji, you seem to be forgetting all the scenes from season 1 where Ward is clearly enjoying being evil.
Ward said that at the time, but when he actually faced the people he tricked he wasn't nearly as cheery. If he'd bragged like that to their faces, then I'd be worried. If he actually enjoyed it, why would he regret it at all?You also got him bragging about how he tricked the team to Raina, and when he told Skye "maybe I'll just take what I want, wake something up inside of you." Sure he's been helpful in season 2 but as was mentioned that's because they have him trapped. He could easily be trying to get them to let their guards down so he could get them to let him out.
I'm sorry, but I can't take this revenge comment seriously, not at all. That would completely contradict everything we've seen of him since he was revealed to be a spy. He's made it clear that he's never had bad feelings for the team. As for his eyes, those were much like the eyes he had after he killed Hand and her agents. You know, before he started having all those hesitations and regrets. He may have still done them, but it doesn't seem like they're as "killer eyes" as you seem to think.Did you not see his eyes at the end of the episode? Those aren't the eyes of a man seeking redemption. Maybe he'll seek revenge on Coulson and company for handing him over to his brother. Maybe he'll join the Doctor since they both want Skye.
I'm not underestiating it at all. In fact, there have been a lot of shows, both US and anime, where I've thought that it was stupid that the good guys trusted the bad guy/traitor so easily.You're underestimating just how devastating a personal betrayal can be. Ward wasn't some villain who saw the light, he's a guy that became friends with everyone then stabbed them in the back. Rebuilding trust is a hell of a lot harder than gaining it in the first place.
Honestly.......that would be a lot worse. That's a huge compromise of integrity, and it actually makes Coulson a douchebag if it turns out you're right. He's always been about saving people; he and Fury said it's the very foundation that SHIELD was built on. "Everyone's worth saving." This is the guy who tried to save a rampaging killer in the middle of a dire situation, and only killed him as a last resort. This doesn't mean letting every bad gu they caught out of jail, but it certainly means they don't use people as objects to be handed over for execution as part of a deal with a monster. If you're right, Coulson as good as executed a human life as a bargaining chip, an object. That's even colder than what Ward did to Hand and her team. At least they weren't unarmed captives. I honestly have a hard time liking people who think of any human life like that. He gave a monster what he wanted so his supposedly good guy agency could get a break. That's corrupt to the core. Call me naive if you want, but I have no faith in things like that. This isn't a series about good people sinking into the dark, corrupt world.Also, you're wrong about Coulson being tricked by Christian. Coulson knew Christian's game plan the whole time, but it didn't matter. In the long run it was better to get Christian to cooperate via mutual trade rather than blackmail. Shield is no longer being hunted and all it cost them was the scumbag in their basement. Good trade.
You forget his comments to Maria. Also, watch his fight against May again, he's having fun taunting her when he has the upper hand... Until she nails him, then he wants to talk things over.Shinji103 wrote:Ward said that at the time, but when he actually faced the people he tricked he wasn't nearly as cheery. If he'd bragged like that to their faces, then I'd be worried. If he actually enjoyed it, why would he regret it at all?
Entirely different situations. Coulson wasn't going to let Skye go off to who knows where to do who knows what, especially when he had Bobbi around to save Simmons. The thing with Ward was a simple prisoner transfer. Shield custody to US Goverment custody. It's not like Christian was going to pull out a gun and shoot Grant on the spot. They said he was going to be put on trial for his crimes and potentially get the death penalty for it. The punishment would sure as hell fit the crime.Shinji103 wrote:Didn't Coulson just burn a promising spy op into Hydra rather than cooperating with Raina by letting her have Skye? By the cold calculating logic you're using, he should have let Raina have Skye so he could carry out the greater good. After all, it's one person in exchange for getting eyes on a major bad guy organization, right?
Just a guess but I'm starting to believe the city is a nod to Attilan. The city the Inhumans are supposed to live. Since the Inhumans are humans that are supposed be experimented on by the Kree in ancient times. The alien looking like it could be a Kree and having been there since I believe they said "before the pyramids" has me believing that theory.Shinji103 wrote: So we now know that the alien we saw in T.A.H.I.T.I. is ancient, and now we know that the GH sickness was about finding some city. Now again, my Marvel knowledge is woefully out of date, so if this city has some kind of comic history, I don't know about it.