Transformers the movie thread

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razgriz
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Post by razgriz » Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:57 am

it just makes me wonder who will do starscream's hopefully high pitched cobra commander-esque voice, since chris latta is r.i.p.? well maybe they can invite frank welker for the sequel to do soundwave, which BETTER be in the next movie. you hear that bruckheimer?!?!
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Post by wing zero alpha » Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:19 am

Well, Soundwave is planned to have a role in the next movie. He's not in this one because they couldn't get the design right. I just hope that Starscream design isn't final...

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Post by razgriz » Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:18 am

his vehicle f-22 form is great but yeah he does have an optimus primal vibe going on in his robot form.
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Post by solid snake » Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:00 pm

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Post by codename:v » Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:23 am

Starscream's design is finalized, you can see it in the latest movie previews. On the other hand, I don't really get this one... Are they really going to put Grimlock and Instecticon into the show? Then again, it might be just rumours...

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Post by wing zero alpha » Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:34 am

codename:v wrote:Starscream's design is finalized, you can see it in the latest movie previews. On the other hand, I don't really get this one... Are they really going to put Grimlock and Instecticon into the show? Then again, it might be just rumours...
Yeah, I saw that, but by now the design has grown on me. Before I was looking at it from a G1 perspective, but after looking over the designs I can see the movie has a unique style to it. My biggest fear though is that it becomes "fanboy fodder" like the Tri-Star Godzilla movie :roll:.

As for Grimlock and Insecticon, haven't seen any evidence for those, although I wouldn't be surprised if they show up in the sequel.

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Post by codename:v » Sun Apr 15, 2007 1:49 pm

Wow, there's a sequel for this? Like the Pirates of Carribean? You're not pullin' my legs, are you?
The only thing I can't stand are the rants of those G1 babies... It looked as though they haven't grew out of the 80s'. The traditional boxy designs are somehow anime to me as they were based on their japanese counterparts like Star Convoy and Jinrai, Micheal Bay's on the other hand, does display some originalities and realisms. Now that's something totally brandnew.

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Post by wing zero alpha » Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:54 pm

codename:v wrote:Wow, there's a sequel for this? Like the Pirates of Carribean? You're not pullin' my legs, are you?
According to my sources, Shia LaBeouf and Peter Cullen are signed on for not one, but two sequels. As well, there has been talk about using Soundwave in the next film since he got replaced with Frenzy in this one, possibly even Arcee (crosses fingers for luck). Of course, this all depends on how this film does at the box office.
The only thing I can't stand are the rants of those G1 babies... It looked as though they haven't grew out of the 80s'. The traditional boxy designs are somehow anime to me as they were based on their japanese counterparts like Star Convoy and Jinrai, Micheal Bay's on the other hand, does display some originalities and realisms. Now that's something totally brandnew.
I have the same problems with general fanbases everywhere; Star Trek, Star Wars, Godzilla (especially with the American Godzilla movie) and more often than not I've said some foul words about Gundam fans. The problem is it doesn't matter what "makes more sense" or how "realistic" a movie gets, bias is bias and it's the peoples' dollars that make or ruin a movie saga. So yeah, as I said, that's my number one fear for Transformers at the moment, probably more than Starscream potentially biting it like he did in the first Transformers movie; after reading the prequel novel, it seems he's setting himself up for a blast to the chest from a BFG.

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Post by Nagi » Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:06 pm

wing zero alpha wrote:The problem is it doesn't matter what "makes more sense" or how "realistic" a movie gets, bias is bias and it's the peoples' dollars that make or ruin a movie saga.
But that's the thing, what's the point of aiming to make something "more realistic" when it's an utterly impossible concept to begin with? Making Godzilla more dinosaurian and giving him halitosis doesn't change the fact that a land animal of that size would collapse under its own weight (and that lizards exposed to radiation fallout die, and do not become giant biological chimaeras). Giving Transformers more curves and sharp edges, and giving them Johnny-5 faces doesn't change the fact that robots of that size and with so little structural stability would fall apart on this planet long before accomplishing the sort of agile nonsense they do in either the show or the film. Trying to make such wildly impossible concepts "more realistic" is futile, because they're inherently NOT realistic. Nobody gets drawn into these things for their realism; they get drawn into them for the escapist fantasy of it all. So really, it's unfair to say that fans of things like Godzilla and Gundam and Transformers are wrong for not wanting their favorite shows to perfectly, realistically conform to the laws of physics and nature. They may as well be wrong for liking these things then, seeing as they're impossible no matter what.

HOWEVER, this doesn't mean that oversimplified cartoons blocks cobbled together to form robots in the 70s & 80s should be kept perfectly as is. If we put exact 80s cartoon Megatron and Starscream against live action backgrounds, it'd look utterly silly, let's admit. But I think a milder approach to redesigning them—something akin to Bandai's alteration of classic Gundam designs over the years, or Toho's gradual changes to the Godzilla suit from generation to generation—are a lot more appropriate than basically giving the designs the complete facelifts Bay's team have given them. Transformers is pure fantasy to begin with, so what's wrong with at least keeping the characters recognizable?

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Post by wing zero alpha » Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:44 am

Nagi wrote:But that's the thing, what's the point of aiming to make something "more realistic" when it's an utterly impossible concept to begin with? Making Godzilla more dinosaurian and giving him halitosis doesn't change the fact that a land animal of that size would collapse under its own weight (and that lizards exposed to radiation fallout die, and do not become giant biological chimaeras).
I wasn't referring to Godzilla being realistic, but then you'd basically be saying the T-Rex wouldn't be able to move with that kind of logic; sure, it's nowhere near as big as Godzilla, but its legs are pretty stocky for its body. But since we're not talking about Godzilla, I digress...
Giving Transformers more curves and sharp edges, and giving them Johnny-5 faces doesn't change the fact that robots of that size and with so little structural stability would fall apart on this planet long before accomplishing the sort of agile nonsense they do in either the show or the film. Trying to make such wildly impossible concepts "more realistic" is futile, because they're inherently NOT realistic. Nobody gets drawn into these things for their realism; they get drawn into them for the escapist fantasy of it all. So really, it's unfair to say that fans of things like Godzilla and Gundam and Transformers are wrong for not wanting their favorite shows to perfectly, realistically conform to the laws of physics and nature. They may as well be wrong for liking these things then, seeing as they're impossible no matter what.
For one, I was talking about the consistancy of the transformations for being "more realistc", not, and I repeat with gusto, NOT the physics behind it. However, you seem to misunderstand something; my main point was how the fanboys out there are not accepting of anything unless it's a perfect re-creation of their favorite little cartoon show. It doesn't matter if the new way either makes more sense when one thinks about it or if it's just a different approach to it, there are always going to be complainers.
HOWEVER, this doesn't mean that oversimplified cartoons blocks cobbled together to form robots in the 70s & 80s should be kept perfectly as is. If we put exact 80s cartoon Megatron and Starscream against live action backgrounds, it'd look utterly silly, let's admit. But I think a milder approach to redesigning them—something akin to Bandai's alteration of classic Gundam designs over the years, or Toho's gradual changes to the Godzilla suit from generation to generation—are a lot more appropriate than basically giving the designs the complete facelifts Bay's team have given them. Transformers is pure fantasy to begin with, so what's wrong with at least keeping the characters recognizable?
Because that's what's been done all this time with the other Transformers storylines, and people STILL complained about those. I still remember the BS about matters like Starscream not transforming into a recognizable jet, Megatron turning into a tank with a stag beetle head (coincidentally a tank was his G2 form) or hell, Beast Wars' mere existance in general. It doesn't matter if it's a moderate or a massive change, if it's out of the ballpark then people are going to bitch, just like they do on a regular basis with Gundam Wing, Gundam SEED and anything else that isn't UC, Tomino directed or otherwise holy and omnipotent.

As for the new movie, what's wrong with having a different approach to something when the same product keeps being repeated over and over again like Transformers has, with the aforementioned Japanese anime, comics (Marvel and otherwise), toy lines, etc.? I personally didn't like the new designs at first, but like some of Turn A Gundam's mecha, they grew on me because a.) it shows Michael Bay is serious about his production and is not just putting out another franchise that's essentially the same character designs and elements over again (you hear that Star Wars Expanded Universe?) and b.) going along with a., it seperates the movie from the rest of the stuff out there and makes it its own experience, again like Turn A Gundam does to Gundam fans.

Does that mean I would detest seeing Starscream and co. in their 1980s forms again? The answer is no, I wouldn't mind seeing the boxy designs since I grew up with them, but that doesn't mean I don't understand what's being accomplished here and I'm going to boycott the movie in some useless fit of rage like I'm 5-years old, which is what many people are (at this point) saying they're going to do when the movie comes out.

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Post by Lert » Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:24 am

For me it's mostly their behaviour that will make me recognise them as their original counterparts.

I for one wouldn't be able to stand to see their original blocky designs in a live action movie, even if moderately facelifted. Not to say that I agree with all of these new designs - what I've seen from them - but I will reserve my opinion about the movie till I've actually, like, SEEN it .. Isn't that the normal way things work ? First experience something and THEN have an opinion about it ?
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Post by razgriz » Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:02 am

at least they did their best to make THE transformer optimus prime look the most faithful to his G1 and subsequent designs. i like the fact that the transformation sequences are more than just moving blocks. sure it may be a challenge for a toy but on screen it looks amazing. also the alien look to most of the decepticons just makes them look so inherently evil and bad*** fitting for the decepticons. what i am ultimately hoping for are that the sequels will have a few more old faves (soundwave, wheeljack, grimlock but NOT rodimus :evil: )) and that this will inspire movie makers to bring a few more cartoon robots to the big screen :wink:
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Post by Nagi » Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:26 am

wing zero alpha wrote:I wasn't referring to Godzilla being realistic, but then you'd basically be saying the T-Rex wouldn't be able to move with that kind of logic; sure, it's nowhere near as big as Godzilla, but its legs are pretty stocky for its body. But since we're not talking about Godzilla, I digress...
I'll concede your other points, but as an avid student of paleontology, I must say this is absolutely ridiculous. There is a HUGE difference between a six-ton animal and a 600-ton animal. For an animal like Tyrannosaurus rex—which only weighed as much as an African elephant—to stand and walk and chase prey is not at all comparable to a hypothetical animal that weighed as much as several whales walking around. Hell, a blue whale, which weighs in at about 100 tons, would suffocate on land because its own mass would crush its organs without water to support it. That's the reason the largest Sauropod dinosaurs only came to about half a blue whale's weight. If that can happen to a blue whale, then it would certainly happen to an animal several times its size, because animals that are simply too large would be weighed down by gravity to the point of literally being crushed under their own weight.

Godzilla was 100 times a Tyrannosaurus's size; it's absurd to make such a comparison. Just because they're two big, bipedal animals does not mean they operate under the exact same physics, especially when there is such a huge difference in mass between them.

Apologies for the off-topic tangent, but I just cannot let something like this stand unchallenged.

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Post by wing zero alpha » Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:09 pm

Yare yare, so forceful over one sentence :roll:. Not that I don't understand; looking back at it, I did make it out of the blue.

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Post by Newtype87 » Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:14 pm

Lert wrote:I for one wouldn't be able to stand to see their original blocky designs in a live action movie, even if moderately facelifted. Not to say that I agree with all of these new designs - what I've seen from them - but I will reserve my opinion about the movie till I've actually, like, SEEN it .. Isn't that the normal way things work ? First experience something and THEN have an opinion about it ?
Lert… I thank you. My hat is off to you, good sir… madam… person. I was just about fed up with some of the comments I've read all over the internet about these designs (people are practically declaring war because of Hugo Weaving!), and I was about to make my own statement regarding how I feel about it, and then you went and perfectly summed up my feelings on the issue. Watch the movie, and then make up your mind. Again, thank you.

Now, I have a confession to make… being only born in 1987, I missed the start of Transformers. My first real exposure to Transformers was Robots in Disguise, followed by Armada. Heck, I missed Beast Wars and Machines! So, from the viewpoint of a fan who didn't grow up on Generation One and only heard of it ex post facto, I welcome this design change and the new movie. Guess where I'll be on July the fourth?

And remember kids, a "fan" is just a nice way to say "fanatic!" :D
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Post by codename:v » Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:12 am

Hey... Who're you callin' kids?

Age groups born in the mid/late 80s' certainly won't get the idea of the G1's designs as they were exposed to the recent designs like Armada, Energon and Galaxy Force, they would go "Huh?!" if they reuse the G1 boxy transformations in live actions.
Bay's vision is of seeing both autobots and decepticons in real life, therefore he won't do it like Dreamwave's fanart style, how could there be originality in that?

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Post by razgriz » Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:37 am

i hope they will consider foreign cars for the transformers sequel. i mean i can live with bumble bee being a camaro thats an upgrade but jazz is supposed to be a porsche! not a pontiac! thats the only robot's form i have an issue with. but blackout though, wow he may not have much of a history but i think his form and size and viciousness are putting him as one of my new favorite transformers
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Post by codename:v » Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:27 pm

General Motors is one of the sponsors of the movie, that's why we get Bumblebee-Camaro 07, Jazz-Pontiac Soltice and Ironhide-GM pickup. Besides, that Porsche is an old model. Unless, you want to see Jazz as a woman and go "Holy Porsche..."

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Post by Dark Duel » Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:36 pm

I, for one, am totally in love with the new designs. Especially Bumblebee's. Although Jazz as a Porsche 911 would've totally pwned. But maybe I just don't like the Solstice.
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Post by razgriz » Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:20 am

either a porsche or even an audi tt wouldve suited jazz more than a solstice, not that i have anything against american cars, the saleen police car transformer looks great :)
setsuna: I AM A GUNDAM!!!
graham: I AM A FLAG!!!
(setsuna giggling)
graham: NO!! i said FLLLAG!

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