Batteries and hydrogen fuel cells don't solve the problem. These are just mechanisms for storing the energy that you obtain from your original power source. In the case of Gundam Seed, we don't know what that power source is.
-- Mark
SEED Vessel's powersource
From my understanding for the case of SEED vessel/ ship (Archangel), I think it should be in the line of fuel cell and battery.
If we think about power source, the heat is the thing you seek since it’s the thing you need to generate kinetic energy and electricity (apart from solar panel concept). Even in nuclear reactor, it's the heat that you gain from the reaction to provide kinetic energy in form of pressure to run the generator which in turn provides electricity (energy/ power). So let's search for possible heat source in the SEED era vessels. That could provide lots of variety, ranging from standard old school devices such as engine's heat, to exotic devices as hull absorbing heat. However these are those that I deemed appropriate:
1. The heat from the ship’s own propulsion system
2. Internal generator runs by fuel cell
3. Heat absorbed by the hull due friction or other (even re-entry)
As we know, propulsion system produce heat as byproduct. The heat from the ships owns propulsion system might provide enough heat to run the generator and generate electricity. A constant supply of power when the propulsion system is running. Given that the extent of knowledge and technology advancement of SEED, I think it's highly possible for them to create a heat absorbing device that could run very efficiently. If this is truly possible than let's just say it could recycle the heat (also helps in cooling system) and generate power more than enough to supply the ship’s everyday power requirement and the crews' everyday living. The surpluses of power could be used to maintain charge of the ship’s battery they bring onboard.
As we know most of the time the ship usually only lingering around on a patrol duty which is almost 99% of her life, while only 1% is coloured with actual combat. So, running on schemes above we could say that for everyday patrol the ship could run on her own power. That is as long as she got the fuel/ propellant needed for the propulsion system to run.
This condition changes when the ship entered combat. In actual combat there would be additional energy requirement for the weapon system. Not to mention to power up the highly energy hungry beam weaponry. Although in combat there would be additional heat from the propulsion system since the ship should be run on speed greater than the normal cruising speed, the additional energy couldn't cope up with the additional power expenses of the ship's own array of beam weaponry.
That's where the ship use their battery reserve. Designed as a warship, her battery reserve should hold enough energy to power up her gun in a certain amount of time. Although it's highly possible given the nature of the battery and beam weaponry, the battery system won't last really long. Let's say about 10 minutes or 15 minutes until the battery depleted. This is the time when the fuel cell stars to kick in.
In a prolonged war which the battery system almost depleted or in case of the ship's primary weapon is charging up (to compensate for the loss of power), they could use the fuel cell to kick in and get the job done. The idea is to have something quick enough (combustion engine) to generate kinetic energy to run the generator and generate electricity. I'm not a big fan of fuel cell but I think in this case any source that could run the generator quickly and provide robust supply of electricity could be used, and it's highly possible that they got a better highly efficient turbine generator or diesel generator compared to fuel cell generator.
The fuel cell, if it's available and in used, it could play the role of emergency power source. They could be used to run an emergency generator with the ability to replenish the ship's dire need of power either to power her guns or to charge MS weaponry. Although it's convenience but if it's really used in SEED, I think it would come up with its own problems. It would take up space and volume in the ship’s compartment to hold a supply of fuel cell, not to mention the added weight and risk of fire and explosion. Hence it should be very limited and only used in emergency (not as primary power source).
A battery compared to fuel cell is less likely to blow up under fire and able to be charged in after being depleted. While battery system also take up a generous volume of space but it’s rechargeable, hence more efficient in the long run. With that kind of thinking I think it's safe to assume that most of the space and volume dedicated for a ship's power source would be allocated for battery system while still maintain enough space to hold a reserve of fuel cell for emergency.
Note: I agreed to Toysdream that we still don’t know what the real ‘powersource’ in SEED is. Things I mentioned in this post whether it’s fuel cell or battery only serve as the media for storing power.
If we think about power source, the heat is the thing you seek since it’s the thing you need to generate kinetic energy and electricity (apart from solar panel concept). Even in nuclear reactor, it's the heat that you gain from the reaction to provide kinetic energy in form of pressure to run the generator which in turn provides electricity (energy/ power). So let's search for possible heat source in the SEED era vessels. That could provide lots of variety, ranging from standard old school devices such as engine's heat, to exotic devices as hull absorbing heat. However these are those that I deemed appropriate:
1. The heat from the ship’s own propulsion system
2. Internal generator runs by fuel cell
3. Heat absorbed by the hull due friction or other (even re-entry)
As we know, propulsion system produce heat as byproduct. The heat from the ships owns propulsion system might provide enough heat to run the generator and generate electricity. A constant supply of power when the propulsion system is running. Given that the extent of knowledge and technology advancement of SEED, I think it's highly possible for them to create a heat absorbing device that could run very efficiently. If this is truly possible than let's just say it could recycle the heat (also helps in cooling system) and generate power more than enough to supply the ship’s everyday power requirement and the crews' everyday living. The surpluses of power could be used to maintain charge of the ship’s battery they bring onboard.
As we know most of the time the ship usually only lingering around on a patrol duty which is almost 99% of her life, while only 1% is coloured with actual combat. So, running on schemes above we could say that for everyday patrol the ship could run on her own power. That is as long as she got the fuel/ propellant needed for the propulsion system to run.
This condition changes when the ship entered combat. In actual combat there would be additional energy requirement for the weapon system. Not to mention to power up the highly energy hungry beam weaponry. Although in combat there would be additional heat from the propulsion system since the ship should be run on speed greater than the normal cruising speed, the additional energy couldn't cope up with the additional power expenses of the ship's own array of beam weaponry.
That's where the ship use their battery reserve. Designed as a warship, her battery reserve should hold enough energy to power up her gun in a certain amount of time. Although it's highly possible given the nature of the battery and beam weaponry, the battery system won't last really long. Let's say about 10 minutes or 15 minutes until the battery depleted. This is the time when the fuel cell stars to kick in.
In a prolonged war which the battery system almost depleted or in case of the ship's primary weapon is charging up (to compensate for the loss of power), they could use the fuel cell to kick in and get the job done. The idea is to have something quick enough (combustion engine) to generate kinetic energy to run the generator and generate electricity. I'm not a big fan of fuel cell but I think in this case any source that could run the generator quickly and provide robust supply of electricity could be used, and it's highly possible that they got a better highly efficient turbine generator or diesel generator compared to fuel cell generator.
The fuel cell, if it's available and in used, it could play the role of emergency power source. They could be used to run an emergency generator with the ability to replenish the ship's dire need of power either to power her guns or to charge MS weaponry. Although it's convenience but if it's really used in SEED, I think it would come up with its own problems. It would take up space and volume in the ship’s compartment to hold a supply of fuel cell, not to mention the added weight and risk of fire and explosion. Hence it should be very limited and only used in emergency (not as primary power source).
A battery compared to fuel cell is less likely to blow up under fire and able to be charged in after being depleted. While battery system also take up a generous volume of space but it’s rechargeable, hence more efficient in the long run. With that kind of thinking I think it's safe to assume that most of the space and volume dedicated for a ship's power source would be allocated for battery system while still maintain enough space to hold a reserve of fuel cell for emergency.
Note: I agreed to Toysdream that we still don’t know what the real ‘powersource’ in SEED is. Things I mentioned in this post whether it’s fuel cell or battery only serve as the media for storing power.
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Brave Fencer Kirby
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Lans, if I'm understanding you right, you're talking about using the waste head from the ship's thrusters to power a generator that supplies the rest of the ship with energy.
If I've got that right, there are two problems with that idea. One, what's powering the thrusters? Heat doesn't come from nowhere; you have to expend power to heat the thrusters, and while you can reabsorb the waste heat to increase efficency, you're never going to get more energy out than you put in, so that can't be the ship's power source. The other problem is the fact that the a ship in orbit very rarely fires its thrusters. Once they're in a stable orbit, they'll stay there unless they push themselves around with their engines. Effectively, there are only three times a ship would ever have its thrusters on: at the very beginning of a trip (to push themselves toward their destination, then glide the rest of the way there), at the very end of a trip (to stop themselves from gliding past their destination; to hit the brakes, in essence), and during combat. Outside of these three times, the thrusters wouldn't be active, and thus wouldn't be capable of producing power.
If I've got that right, there are two problems with that idea. One, what's powering the thrusters? Heat doesn't come from nowhere; you have to expend power to heat the thrusters, and while you can reabsorb the waste heat to increase efficency, you're never going to get more energy out than you put in, so that can't be the ship's power source. The other problem is the fact that the a ship in orbit very rarely fires its thrusters. Once they're in a stable orbit, they'll stay there unless they push themselves around with their engines. Effectively, there are only three times a ship would ever have its thrusters on: at the very beginning of a trip (to push themselves toward their destination, then glide the rest of the way there), at the very end of a trip (to stop themselves from gliding past their destination; to hit the brakes, in essence), and during combat. Outside of these three times, the thrusters wouldn't be active, and thus wouldn't be capable of producing power.
Fighting evil so you don't have to!
While I agree to your argument but we can't ignore the fact that vessels in SEED always portrayed having blue flares or other colours from their aft end section of the ships almost all the time. Although it's highly possible that I missed a few scenes or probably it's just for animation purpose, still it makes me think that active ships have their propulsion system working all the time.
We also know that the ship like Archangel need time and sometimes external help to start her "engine" after some major repair and refit in dock. That's support the idea that the "engine" or at least part of it the propulsion system always works since now we know that it couldn't be turned off and on easily. It needs time and help from outside, although probably she could do it on her own but it’s still impractical to do so every once and then. If that’s the case we should seen a scene or two in animation to address this problem since it’s quite a trouble if the ship need time to start up her engine before entering combat or even for little things like course change or other means of usage.
On the other hand, I guess it's safe to assume that those vessels don't run on raw power alone but rather by one method or another process (burn) the propellant/ other kind of fuel for thrust. So if they got the propellant or fuel, you could generate thrust and heat as by product.
For the sake of my explanation let just say that those vessels always have their propulsion system running all the time on active duty. That's mean in idle condition they would burn the minimum amount of propellant not for thrust alone although the acceleration could be handy, but to generate enough electricity or power to supply the ship's minimum requirement. Since most of the time they only run on idle/ cruising and no power consumption for weapon there should be enough energy if the only thing that need power is the propulsion system itself, ie to "burn the propellant".
But still, I really doubt that this kind of "system" could provide enough power for the infamous dash to Alaska. In earth environment, the ship became a flying brick that flown on raw thrust alone. They should depleted all their reserve of propellant before even reaching the destination. Even with turbo-fan or other jets mechanism onboard, still.. to flown a ship of that tonnage and engage combats.
We also know that the ship like Archangel need time and sometimes external help to start her "engine" after some major repair and refit in dock. That's support the idea that the "engine" or at least part of it the propulsion system always works since now we know that it couldn't be turned off and on easily. It needs time and help from outside, although probably she could do it on her own but it’s still impractical to do so every once and then. If that’s the case we should seen a scene or two in animation to address this problem since it’s quite a trouble if the ship need time to start up her engine before entering combat or even for little things like course change or other means of usage.
On the other hand, I guess it's safe to assume that those vessels don't run on raw power alone but rather by one method or another process (burn) the propellant/ other kind of fuel for thrust. So if they got the propellant or fuel, you could generate thrust and heat as by product.
For the sake of my explanation let just say that those vessels always have their propulsion system running all the time on active duty. That's mean in idle condition they would burn the minimum amount of propellant not for thrust alone although the acceleration could be handy, but to generate enough electricity or power to supply the ship's minimum requirement. Since most of the time they only run on idle/ cruising and no power consumption for weapon there should be enough energy if the only thing that need power is the propulsion system itself, ie to "burn the propellant".
But still, I really doubt that this kind of "system" could provide enough power for the infamous dash to Alaska. In earth environment, the ship became a flying brick that flown on raw thrust alone. They should depleted all their reserve of propellant before even reaching the destination. Even with turbo-fan or other jets mechanism onboard, still.. to flown a ship of that tonnage and engage combats.
I think this is probably another dead end.
A spaceship's engines push it forward by expelling propellant. The faster the propellant is moving, the more thrust you get. The phenomenon we experience as "heat" is actually a product of molecular motion, and when you're dealing with rocket engines, the heat of the exhaust corresponds directly to the average velocity of the exhaust particles.
In other words, the heat of the exhaust is what makes your spaceship move. If you siphon off that heat to generate electrical power, your exhaust particles slow down and you get less thrust. And anyway, I'm pretty sure that sucking more power out of your exhaust than you used to heat it up in the first place would violate all the laws of thermodynamics.
-- Mark
A spaceship's engines push it forward by expelling propellant. The faster the propellant is moving, the more thrust you get. The phenomenon we experience as "heat" is actually a product of molecular motion, and when you're dealing with rocket engines, the heat of the exhaust corresponds directly to the average velocity of the exhaust particles.
In other words, the heat of the exhaust is what makes your spaceship move. If you siphon off that heat to generate electrical power, your exhaust particles slow down and you get less thrust. And anyway, I'm pretty sure that sucking more power out of your exhaust than you used to heat it up in the first place would violate all the laws of thermodynamics.
-- Mark
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Albireo_818
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Exactly right, Sir. You hit it right on the head.toysdream wrote:I think this is probably another dead end.
A spaceship's engines push it forward by expelling propellant. The faster the propellant is moving, the more thrust you get. The phenomenon we experience as "heat" is actually a product of molecular motion, and when you're dealing with rocket engines, the heat of the exhaust corresponds directly to the average velocity of the exhaust particles.
In other words, the heat of the exhaust is what makes your spaceship move. If you siphon off that heat to generate electrical power, your exhaust particles slow down and you get less thrust. And anyway, I'm pretty sure that sucking more power out of your exhaust than you used to heat it up in the first place would violate all the laws of thermodynamics.
-- Mark
As afore mentioned, the laws of Physics stipulate that physically, one cannot possibly absorb more energy from an apparatus than one has already put in, whether that be in the form of electric, gravitational potential, heat, whatever. And, while Lans' theory may have some basis in fact, unless the CE scientists and military are ready to run a grossly inefficient warship, this will probably not be a viable option.
So, basically, throughout the thread, we have come up with these ideas (sorry if any are left out):
1 ) Fusion enabled by N-Jammers
2 ) Solar power
3 ) Hydrogen power
4 ) Battery, whether L-ion, alkaline, etc.
5 ) Fission enabled by thick armour. (unlikely).
6 ) Antimatter
7 ) Bio-fuels
8 ) Armour Heat absorbtion
9 ) Unknown Fuel Cell
10 ) Thermal
Realistically, I see no resolution to this argument in sight, for the simple fact that there is virtually no in-universe sources. And, as much as I hate to say it, the reason for this stuff is probably an out-of-universe problem, not an in-universe one.
Mod Edit (Red): Nothing big, I just added spaces after the number to prevent emoticons from popping up in the list.
Call me Albireo or Al, without the _818
"A Clever person solves the problem. The wise person avoids it!"-Albert Einstein
"A Clever person solves the problem. The wise person avoids it!"-Albert Einstein
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Phoenix012
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I just thought of something that I didn't before. It doesn't really help us solve anything but it does possibly give us a little more information?
In episode 19 of Gundam SEED, Several crew members go with the some of Desert Dawn fighters to negotiate with the water mogul for basic supplies such as water, food, and ammunition. It's never detailed exactly what all the supplies they pick up are, but it's quite possible that included with those supplies was a hefty stack of charged fuel cells or something. The point being is that the Archangel doesn't have to have the apparently limitless energy supply I thought it did, it simply needs enough to get from Heliopolis down to Libya, then from Libya to Orb, and finally Orb to Alaska.
Obviously this doesn't really solve anything, but it does lend more credence to the use of some sort of consumable energy source rather than the renewable or exotic near limitless energy supplies such as solar power, fusion, antimatter, etc.
If I were to have a guess now, I would say the Archangel has a nuclear fission reactor, like all OMNI ships, that it uses to charge capacitors whenever it's available. The Archangel is first and foremost a space naval vessel. However, the ship is capable of operating for extended periods in N-Jammer interference either close to ZAFT facilities or on earth using an extensive bank of fuel cells. It does however, have to have these periodically replaced as they get used up. We can assume that fuel cell and energy tech has advanced and become efficient enough for all this to work.
This is the strongest solution that I can come up with.
In episode 19 of Gundam SEED, Several crew members go with the some of Desert Dawn fighters to negotiate with the water mogul for basic supplies such as water, food, and ammunition. It's never detailed exactly what all the supplies they pick up are, but it's quite possible that included with those supplies was a hefty stack of charged fuel cells or something. The point being is that the Archangel doesn't have to have the apparently limitless energy supply I thought it did, it simply needs enough to get from Heliopolis down to Libya, then from Libya to Orb, and finally Orb to Alaska.
Obviously this doesn't really solve anything, but it does lend more credence to the use of some sort of consumable energy source rather than the renewable or exotic near limitless energy supplies such as solar power, fusion, antimatter, etc.
If I were to have a guess now, I would say the Archangel has a nuclear fission reactor, like all OMNI ships, that it uses to charge capacitors whenever it's available. The Archangel is first and foremost a space naval vessel. However, the ship is capable of operating for extended periods in N-Jammer interference either close to ZAFT facilities or on earth using an extensive bank of fuel cells. It does however, have to have these periodically replaced as they get used up. We can assume that fuel cell and energy tech has advanced and become efficient enough for all this to work.
This is the strongest solution that I can come up with.
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Albireo_818
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Great theory...
Actually, excellent theory. It really only leaves two problems:
1 ) What do the fuel cells contain?
2 ) Where would the Archangel store such an extensive bank of fuel cells?
Okay. The fuel cells may be hydrogen, lithium-ion, hell, they could even be run off some kind of material found in asteroids.
Actually, excellent theory. It really only leaves two problems:
1 ) What do the fuel cells contain?
2 ) Where would the Archangel store such an extensive bank of fuel cells?
Okay. The fuel cells may be hydrogen, lithium-ion, hell, they could even be run off some kind of material found in asteroids.
Call me Albireo or Al, without the _818
"A Clever person solves the problem. The wise person avoids it!"-Albert Einstein
"A Clever person solves the problem. The wise person avoids it!"-Albert Einstein
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Phoenix012
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1. As you already pointed out, it doesn't matter a whole lot. Suffice to say OMNI has them manufactured somewhere en masse, probably on the moon.Albireo_818 wrote:Great theory...
Actually, excellent theory. It really only leaves two problems:
1 ) What do the fuel cells contain?
2 ) Where would the Archangel store such an extensive bank of fuel cells?
Okay. The fuel cells may be hydrogen, lithium-ion, hell, they could even be run off some kind of material found in asteroids.
2. Well without a good diagram of where everything is on the Archangel, there's no way to say for sure. I will say this, though. The Archangel is actually a pretty large ship in comparison to other vessels, but it has a fairly small crew. I'm sure they found the space somewhere.
Obviously, no theory that anyone is going to come up with is going to be perfect. This is just the best I can come up with in absence of better information. It's the only thing that looks like it makes any sense, at least from my perspective.
Thanks for the input.
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neolordmaxwell
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It does seem to be along the lines of the way Seed has hangled other power situations. If i'm not quite mistaken, wasn't a similar system used in the N-Deutronium systems to get around the N-Jammer Canceller treaty laws? A fission reactor powered the battery, which the MS ran off of? If the Archangel normally runs off of batteries charged by a fission generator whenever this is possible, the technological connection isn't too far out there- there is at least precedence for it.
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Scorpio[pt]
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sory but i had to post this
your anwser for teh power source
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/3355/hampsterwn6.jpg
your anwser for teh power source
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/3355/hampsterwn6.jpg
Don't take life too seriously.....no-one's getting out alive.
what about using the N-jammer itself? IIRC most, if not all warships were already equipped with them to disrupt enemy movements and communications. anyway, given how those giant N-jammers drilled into the Earth are still functional, it must mean that they themselves are somehow capable to generating energy on their own, or there's some other equipment in the N-jammer which provides this source of energy.
so if the warships are also able to use the N-jammer or at least that magical equipment, then that would be their powersource.
so if the warships are also able to use the N-jammer or at least that magical equipment, then that would be their powersource.
In that case you are suggesting something like gathering solar power, storing it in batteries like lead-acid or hydrogen fuel cells, using such electricity to spin turbines which... scratch that there is some inefficiency to that. Though if they use solar or something to heat water to spin turbines to create electricity, that would be something. They could use electricity to ignite some highly volatile propellant to power the ship...but this is all just me going off on a rant.Omega wrote:This might not answer the question... but as far as the Archangel is concerned, i think there's a set of turbines in the ship somewhere, then all you'll need is an energy cell or a battery to start it up.
Seriously though, I never thought an innocent question I posted would stir up such confusion. This would be easier if the SEEDverse invented some sort of pseudo particle like they did in UC, but I digress.
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gaspmaster
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ok, i got a question, i was thinkin about this since im goin to college to be an engineer (besides the point but oh well) ok we know that the ship sometimes needs help to powerup.. case in point 1st episode. is there anything against having 2 generators... ill try to explain the best i can.
first you get the main generator started goin(ie the help starting up in heliopolis) once that main generator that uses a little power to do something to make a lot of power is goin it pumps out i dont know how, much power, afterward you have a second smaller generator that takes a small amount power from that mainstream generator and because of this it provides ample power to keep the main generator going. its just a theory. i guess its kind of like recycling power to make more to use.
all you would need is to kickstart the main generator to start the cycle.
if this is the case then its solved ight there more or less.. infinite power.. though that kinda goes against the universal law of equivalent exchange.
first you get the main generator started goin(ie the help starting up in heliopolis) once that main generator that uses a little power to do something to make a lot of power is goin it pumps out i dont know how, much power, afterward you have a second smaller generator that takes a small amount power from that mainstream generator and because of this it provides ample power to keep the main generator going. its just a theory. i guess its kind of like recycling power to make more to use.
all you would need is to kickstart the main generator to start the cycle.
if this is the case then its solved ight there more or less.. infinite power.. though that kinda goes against the universal law of equivalent exchange.
which is why I brought up the issue of the N-jammer. note that in every other universe, such things are based on particles like minovinsky or GN particles.Kavik Ryx wrote: This would be easier if the SEEDverse invented some sort of pseudo particle like they did in UC, but I digress.
so it is highly likely that if we solve the issue on how the N-jammer works, it may shed more light on this issue
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gaspmaster
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not quite the laws of science both support and debunk this. we already have massive generators putting out large amounts of energy of a small amounts of something, even though its equal exchange, its a small amount none the less. if we could somehow make a generator that runs off lets say electricity but produces more of it than it uses its basically an infinite loop. but the problem as of right now is we dont have a way to do this efficiently and cost effectivly, i have read in some periodicals that we have come close to this. ill look for them again and link them if found. so lets say here in Seed they figured out how to do it. so, if you could link 2 of them on a continuous cycle it would solve the problem.Mike87 wrote:You just answered your own question. You can't have a physically impossible power source now then can you.gaspmaster wrote:if this is the case then its solved ight there more or less.. infinite power.. though that kinda goes against the universal law of equivalent exchange.
i guess that last statement wasn't worded correctly. what i meant to say was "Is it a problem with the equal exchange law?" so i guess im just trying to raise the question of is it possible, probably, or not happening.
eh, missed this statement.. Nuclear fission is the splitting of the nucleus of an atom into parts (lighter nuclei) often producing free neutrons and other smaller nuclei, which may eventually produce photons (in the form of gamma rays). Fission of heavy elements is an exothermic reaction which can release large amounts of energy both as electromagnetic radiation and as kinetic energy of the fragments (heating the bulk material where fission takes place). Fission is a form of elemental transmutation because the resulting fragments are not the same element as the original atom.Duraham wrote:which is why I brought up the issue of the N-jammer. note that in every other universe, such things are based on particles like minovinsky or GN particles.Kavik Ryx wrote: This would be easier if the SEEDverse invented some sort of pseudo particle like they did in UC, but I digress.
so it is highly likely that if we solve the issue on how the N-jammer works, it may shed more light on this issue
now if we look at it this way N-jammers deprive this fission the ability to split the atom.. how ever that may be i have no idea
looking at nuclear fusion.. we have achieved, to a certain degree of control, nuclear fusion. the atom bomb and nuclear bombs. nuclear fusion is the process by which multiple atomic particles join together to form a heavier nucleus. It is accompanied by the release or absorption of energy. Iron and nickel nuclei have the largest binding energies per nucleon of all nuclei.
simply put, a hydrogen bomb. now i have no idea how a N-jammer would stop this from happening since we are compressing something to critical mass and using that energy to do what we need with.. im still a little hazy on that.
now, if you look at cold fusion i dont think we have achieved this yet..so dunno how that might come into play for all we know thats the powersource.
its been a while since i brushed up on my fusion/fission theories and laws so if im wrong in any way shape or form please correct it.
EDIT:
(on a side note) IIRC N-jammers effect radio tranmission as well, so maybe N-jammers themselves screw with energy wavelengths.
EDIT: Come on, you know how to use the Edit button. Quit double-posting.
~ShadowCell
The "law of equivalent exchange" is a plot point in Fullmetal Alchemist, not a principle of real-world science. We do have these things called the "laws of thermodynamics," though, that rule out the possibility of perpetual motion machines or engines that literally create more energy than they consume.
Which isn't to say that you can't build a device that produces more electricity than you needed to start it up, as long as it's getting the extra energy from somewhere. Burning fossil fuels, absorbing sunlight, and nuclear power are all examples of this. In theory, it should be possible to build a fusion reactor that produces more power than it consumes, even if nobody's done it yet. (Where does this extra power come from? The conversion of mass into energy, since the total weight of all the atoms is slightly lighter after they fuse together. So it's not like you're actually getting energy from nothing.)
But when we're talking about this in the context of Gundam Seed, we always run into the same basic problem. Any power source that warships like the Archangel could use on Earth could also be used to generate civilian power, and we're explicitly told that there is no source of civilian power. So far, I think Phoenix012's "battery shopping" theory is the most convincing explanation.
-- Mark
Which isn't to say that you can't build a device that produces more electricity than you needed to start it up, as long as it's getting the extra energy from somewhere. Burning fossil fuels, absorbing sunlight, and nuclear power are all examples of this. In theory, it should be possible to build a fusion reactor that produces more power than it consumes, even if nobody's done it yet. (Where does this extra power come from? The conversion of mass into energy, since the total weight of all the atoms is slightly lighter after they fuse together. So it's not like you're actually getting energy from nothing.)
But when we're talking about this in the context of Gundam Seed, we always run into the same basic problem. Any power source that warships like the Archangel could use on Earth could also be used to generate civilian power, and we're explicitly told that there is no source of civilian power. So far, I think Phoenix012's "battery shopping" theory is the most convincing explanation.
-- Mark