Recon 5 wrote:
One thing caught my attention, though: In the first appearance of the GN- Xs, the HRL grunt units had much larger rifles than Sergei's unit. Why might this be so? If they are more powerful or more efficient designs, why not give one to Sergei too?
It's called using the right tool for the right occasion. We can surmise that while powerful, the long rifle isn't really the best thing to use in close combat, and as you can see Sergei is quite fond of taking his suit into one-on-one duels. A long rifle would simply be a hindrance in his way. You'll notice that GN-X's that are meant for assault use the carbine while the GN-X's that stay in the back for fire support use the long rifle.
Note:
Most likely the swappable GN long rifle/carbine that the GN-X has was built so that the GN-X can accomplish its general purpose role by switching from long-ranged fire support using the long rifle, to close combat assault using the carbine. If you notice from the lineart, the rifle seems to be modular in design; add long barrel and extra drum "magazine" and you transform the carbine into the long rifle. This is actually comparable to real world firearms - certain assault rifles like the H&K G36 can be stripped and modded to turn them from short carbines into longer LMG's in a short time.
After viewing other GN- X footage, I realized that the shorter rifle/ rifle sans attachment is standard for commander units (even Patrick had one) while the grunts used the larger weapon. While I can see that hearkening back to days where commanders only had service revolvers as opposed to the rifles used by regular footsoldiers, most Gundam series tend to give their commander units and ace custom types heavier weaponry than grunt suits. 00 would seem to be an interesting exception.
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Recon 5 wrote:After viewing other GN- X footage, I realized that the shorter rifle/ rifle sans attachment is standard for commander units (even Patrick had one) while the grunts used the larger weapon. While I can see that hearkening back to days where commanders only had service revolvers as opposed to the rifles used by regular footsoldiers, most Gundam series tend to give their commander units and ace custom types heavier weaponry than grunt suits. 00 would seem to be an interesting exception.
Perhaps it is because these Advanced/Commander/Ace Pilots are better suited for "Up Close and Personal" where a large two handed rifle may get in the way during a melee fight, or even something as trivial as pulling out and activating a Beam Saber; all while the "glorified grunts" only have to stand back and open fire?
Recon 5 wrote:After viewing other GN- X footage, I realized that the shorter rifle/ rifle sans attachment is standard for commander units (even Patrick had one) while the grunts used the larger weapon. While I can see that hearkening back to days where commanders only had service revolvers as opposed to the rifles used by regular footsoldiers, most Gundam series tend to give their commander units and ace custom types heavier weaponry than grunt suits. 00 would seem to be an interesting exception.
Actually, the more apt comparison would be assaulting infantrymen wielding SMG's (or in modern times assault rifles) while their fire support uses longer LMG's/SAWs. We see that there are also grunt GN-X's that wield the shorter weapon at times, like in that funky HRL formation when they were pursuing the Trinities, which if you might notice none of them was wielding the long rifle.
If you look back to Char's Counterattack the rifle Rezun Schnider used was more like a heavy submachine. Perhaps the rate of fire was what UN aces were suppose to do was act as skirmishers disrupting the enemies flow during combat while grunts with their longer ranged weapons took the enemy from a distance.
SNT1 wrote:Have you forgotten the fact that the fab four continually routed the first-half grunts nearly effortlessly? Now, we really have no clue what this 00 Gundam can do, but it's not like Gundam 00 hadn't had its share of grunt-wiping. I think the better phrase would have been "The last thing this show needs is ZAKU/GOUF/Windam suckage." The GN-X delivered, so I am not going to doubt the blue derivatives in S2.
I wish I could forget about the Dynasty Warriors-style grunt pwning at the start, because that was perhaps the most boring part of the series. Frankly, if they make the OO a full-fledged uber MS again (relative to the other factions' grunts), the series would take a step backwards. And I don't know about you, but that's a bad thing in my opinion.
Metal Legend wrote:The 00 needs to be powerful like the RX-78 ....better but not that much better....but with a few special features to forfill its role as the main MS
I never actually made it through the original Gundam, but if I recall the RX-78-2 was actually inferior to the Gelgoog by the end of the war, but a combination of a lack of experienced pilots for the Gelgoog and Amuro's amazing skills kept the original Gundam ahead of the curve. So, while the Double 0 will probably be a little ahead of the curve, it's still going to need a superior pilot to match wits with the new GN era suits.
"WE ARE THE HARO. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE." - Ascension
"Sucks to be you. Sucks to be you." - Haro
"My godlike powers must be getting rusty." - Graham
Compared to OYW-era-or-thereabouts MS, I would say the 00 would need to be to the Exia something along the lines of what the NT-1 "Alex" was to the original Gundam: A somewhat faster and more agile, more heavily armed version of the same basic frame, with one or two new technological doodads to keep it ahead of the curve compared to the new-model MS fielded by the enemy.
"You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but take a boat in the air you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turn of the worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she ought to fall down. Tells you she's hurting before she keens. Makes her a home."
One way to make OO less super-robot-ish would be to introduce realistic grunt units on the protagonist's side. Gundam has GMs and Balls, Zeta has Nemos and GM IIs, Nu has Jegans. V2 has GunBlastor & the MP V Gundams, etc.
"So...what does the Uncertainty Principle really mean?"
"Sorry, I'm not sure."
That would be rather difficult for celestial being. I'm under the impression that there are only 4 'true' GN drives and its impossible (or at least prohibitivly difficult) to manufacture more. Also, It doesnt seem as though CB has the manpower or raw resources to manufacture its own suits in quantity.
Metal Legend wrote:Indeed...1000% behind you on that one....last thing we need is another wing (even though i still love it) or god forbid SEED fiasco : (
The 00 needs to be powerful like the RX-78 ....better but not that much better....but with a few special features to forfill its role as the main MS
Please no more Strike Freedom bollux please......
*my S-F haet alert is tingling*
Strike Freedom wasn't that much better than Freedom as far as roles go If the 00 Gundam wipes the field, what's the big deal? It didn't stop the fans from watching the first 19 episodes of Gundam 00 now did it?
SNT1 wrote:If the 00 Gundam wipes the field, what's the big deal? It didn't stop the fans from watching the first 19 episodes of Gundam 00 now did it?
Well, no, it didn't stop me from watching the first 19, but I cheered aloud when the Gundams took damage for the first time. Everything got better after the Gundams became vulnerable. Some shows work well with invincible mecha. Gundam doesn't.
Don't call it a comeback...
...in fact, it's best if you forget I was ever here before.
I have to agree with Ascension. The show definetly did improve once the Gundams actually did not stand a 100% coming out of battle with a flawless victory over everyone. From what I've seen it's hard to create a good show with an invincible robot, especially with any sort of backdrop of a half serious war. Works in certain super robot shows where the robots are invincible such as Mazinkaiser, others not so much so.
Well chances are... the 00 Gundam will be a new Strike Freedom. But... it wont own every single mobile suit it fights against in 5 secs, you'll still need a superior pilot and it will suffer damage. My guess is it will get destroyed in the final episode.
If they can make it like SF and still get it's ass kicked around every once in a while, then im a happy camper
"We will change in order to create the future!!" - Setsuna F Seiei
Wasn't there another Gundam show from back in the mid 90's that had fairly invincible Gundams and then they eventually got beaten and came back more awesome than before and then one of them could even blow up whole colonies with its BFG?
C'mon dudes, isn't it a tad too early to start bracing ourselves for something that most likely will not happen six months from now?
This probably is very offtopic, but where is everyone getting the idea that the Gundams were always destroying dozens of MS at a time without taking damage prior to the GN-X's?
IIRC, in one episode (I think it was when the three factions sprung the ultra trap before the Throne units came into play) they were fighting for hours and only killed about 20-50 MS. That's not a slaughter, especially in that amount of time. That may be alot in universe to destroy with only four units, but we've seen Gundam's take out more than that in one battle within a quarter of the time.
Edit: Arbiter, also recall this one Gundam from 0079. It outmatched mobile suits from the enemy on a huge scale via beam weapons and super armor. It was so powerful that most weapons of the enemy couldn't even phase it. Eventually, the "bad guys" made stronger weapons, but the Gundam didn't get better. Instead, the "hero" developed super powers and the ability to predict the near future. So...I really don't see why people are ready to go to war over the writers wanting to make the good guys stronger than their enemies. Especailly when the enemy outnumbers them...
mcred23 wrote:
Well... it's official: O'Regan is the next Hitler.
WhiteWingDemon wrote:
Not to start anything, seeing as that is O'Regan's job...
ShadowCell wrote:
O'Regan, quit hitting on other users.
Orrick Alexander wrote:
Did anyone know that O'Regan is the reason there's no air in space?
ORegan wrote:IIRC, in one episode (I think it was when the three factions sprung the ultra trap before the Throne units came into play) they were fighting for hours and only killed about 20-50 MS. That's not a slaughter, especially in that amount of time. That may be alot in universe to destroy with only four units, but we've seen Gundam's take out more than that in one battle within a quarter of the time.
The episodes before that are what we're talking about.
Even then, the Gundams only won because they had a few factors on the side of CB:
1. No one knew what they were capable of. I remember a Teirien Canon Pilot exclaiming that he got a direct hit, only to be jaw dropped surprised that the Exia was still there. They obviously had no clue that the thing was made out of e-carbon.
2. Obviously, anything with the name Gundam slapped on it will be alot better performance-wise compared to normal grunt unit.
3. As they had no idea about the Gundam's potential, they had no idea how to fight them. The tactics used against CB was pretty much "Shoot and hope you kill them." No real thought really went into the attack plans until Segei attacked them in space
4. Most of the fights were against small units of mobile suits, excluding the South American country they attacked. That was more due to the ground forces being surprised that CB was attacking them when they were defending against the Union.
That's how I've seen it anyways
mcred23 wrote:
Well... it's official: O'Regan is the next Hitler.
WhiteWingDemon wrote:
Not to start anything, seeing as that is O'Regan's job...
ShadowCell wrote:
O'Regan, quit hitting on other users.
Orrick Alexander wrote:
Did anyone know that O'Regan is the reason there's no air in space?
It was only by about episode nine that anybody outside of a handful of aces managed to really threaten the Gundams, and that was also about when Celestial Being started winning by the grace of surprise weapons and abilities--like the Virtue ejecting its armor or the Thrones showing up in the desert. There were four months between episodes eight and nine, so up until episode nine, Celestial Being was still a new quantity to the world and it makes sense that the Gundams would be able to dominate--and even then, there were certain pilots and machines that could keep up.