Why are Zaku Shields...

[Wingnut]

More specifically, one of the machine gun turrets on the side of the tower got introduced to the bottom of the Zaku foot.

[jamnewman0056]

On that note why the differences in the Zaku II shoulders? One for a shield the other for spikes I don't get why in the early stages of the one year war they needed to use spikes? What was the reasoning behind this?

[mcred23]

On that note why the differences in the Zaku II shoulders? One for a shield the other for spikes I don't get why in the early stages of the one year war they needed to use spikes? What was the reasoning behind this?

Have you read any of the posts in this thread? The ones just before yours were discussing possible reasons for the spikes (Being used against ships) and the shield arm was discussed earlier (Suggested as a way to protect the Zaku's handheld weapon and usual weapon holding arm).

[jamnewman0056]

Some but just from a designers point of view you could use so many other methods to either protect one side of the body. For instance the shield could be used as a offensive weapon on example is the Gyan 's bomb shield. I mean the Zaku I had a shield for it's arm. It just seems more accurate and powerful if you can manipulate the spike if it's attached to the arm.

I can see the reasoning behind needing a method to take out the guns of a ship but it seems like in the long run it would be more damage and stress to the machine. Just as a thought what would be better than a spiked pauldron?

Mod Edit (Red): Okay, you've been told several times already: USE THE EDIT BUTTON.

[mcred23]

Some but just from a designers point of view you could use so many other methods to either protect one side of the body. For instance the shield could be used as a offensive weapon on example is the Gyan 's bomb shield. I mean the Zaku I had a shield for it's arm. It just seems more accurate and powerful if you can manipulate the spike if it's attached to the arm.

All of those ideas would be more costly and complex, which isn't good for a general purpose grunt like the Zaku II (And the Zaku one doesn't a shield, just some shoulder domes, far less than the Zaku II).

I can see the reasoning behind needing a method to take out the guns of a ship but it seems like in the long run it would be more damage and stress to the machine. Just as a thought what would be better than a spiked pauldron?

Naturally, the spikes are not ment to be the Zaku II's primary weapon to be used against a ships guns or whatever, it's a backup, something to be used if there isn't anything left or they have to attack instantly. It's better than having nothing and gives something of a punch. A better weapon probably could be developed, but that would cost more and probably be more complex, which like I said before, isn't good for the Zaku.

[jamnewman0056]

The Zancaster Empire for some reason stops using spikes is there any reason why were there better technologies available or did the use their beam shield?

[Wingnut]

The Zancaster Empire for some reason stops using spikes is there any reason why were there better technologies available or did the use their beam shield?

First off, they are known as the Zanscare. Second, there is no reason for any suit of that era to be equipped like that. Every combat MS has at least one beam saber standard and it has been that way for the last 65 years. There is a rare occasion where one MS might end up kicking another, but the need for ramming spikes on a MS went out decades before the time of V Gundam. The only reason Zeonic factions used them was more of a design tradition than any use as a practical weapon.

[jamnewman0056]

Yeah. It does makes sense the fact that the spike later on is more of aesthetic. I would say how ever you could modify a armature to hold a shield or spike and equip it with a shock absorber. Being able to move the shield or spike into position so it could cause damage to a target more effectively.

[Wingnut]

Yeah. It does makes sense the fact that the spike later on is more of aesthetic. I would say how ever you could modify a armature to hold a shield or spike and equip it with a shock absorber. Being able to move the shield or spike into position so it could cause damage to a target more effectively.

You just don't get it do you? After beam sabers became standard on MS, there became no need to have any spikes on a mobile suit PERIOD. Thus your point is moot so stop bringing it up.

[jamnewman0056]

i guess at this point exploring the subject is moot thanks for the discussion.

[J-Lead]

The Zancaster Empire for some reason stops using spikes is there any reason why were there better technologies available or did the use their beam shield?

For the record, even the BESPA forces did make use of the shoulder spikes from time to time.

[Neue Ziel]

I habeeb its one of those its there for the sake of being there things,it also looks cool. I think a shield that doesnt require a manipulator to hold is a plus too.

[jamnewman0056]

I just thought if you could change the direction of where you want to defend ala Gyan or better yet Dynamese you could make a mecha less vulnerable to the blind spots a machine like an MS naturally has.

[Terrace]

*blinks* Why are we even talking about spikes? This topic was supposed to be about the Zaku II shield.

[His Divine Shadow]

*blinks* Why are we even talking about spikes? This topic was supposed to be about the Zaku II shield.

Cross-comparison of the Zaku II's shoulders, as well as the change from the Zaku I's handheld with spikes to the Zaku II's shoulder-mount without spikes. The topic hasn't strayed anywhere except into speculation.

[Terrace]

*blinks* Why are we even talking about spikes? This topic was supposed to be about the Zaku II shield.

Cross-comparison of the Zaku II's shoulders, as well as the change from the Zaku I's handheld with spikes to the Zaku II's shoulder-mount without spikes. The topic hasn't strayed anywhere except into speculation.

Ah, thank you. I was honestly lost for a moment.

[Lans]

As mentioned earlier, the Zaku II complete with it's shield and spiked shoulder was designed as anti fighter and starship vessel in mind. Thus it's shield more acted like a safeguard against AA guns or point defend like CIWS. The idea is to prolong the use of MS main hand that carried primary weapon, this is highly logical modification from previous model that are effective and efficient. With shield mounted like that, the main MS arm would be greatly protected from side attack, from shoulder to elbow joint and a portion of the hand and gun itself. It's cheap, easy to produce and offer considerable value of protection.

On the other hand with the question of why the shield is fix shoulder mounted and not carried by more flexible hand. The answer is still the same, they were meant to fight fighter and starship vessel and not into MS vs MS. Thus having bulky shield won't help them much. Let's erase the fighter like saberfish from the calculation since their vulcan targeting system and missiles are pretty much absolute because of Minovsky Particle interference. The only thing they fight is starship vessel like the salamis, armed with mega particle cannons, vulcans and CIWS. While a year latter, Gundam and GM would prove that shield wielded by flexible arm is better, when Zaku was designed it was the other way around.

They may have this kind of thinking: the Zaku II armor is enough to provide a degree of protection from point defense weaponry like AA gun or CIWS-like. The only things to scare is the mega particle cannons, since that was the case, the use of shield is pretty much obsolete since shield won't help much against mega particle cannon. Shield also would fare against the MS, since it would slow them down because of the additional weight. Not to mention the possibility of losing a portion of MS agility because shield could reduce AMBAC performance. It's safe to say that they designed Zaku II in terms of speed and agility in mind to be able to evade, rather than be able to block and take up the beating since compared to a salamis they're hugely out gunned. When it's 120mm machine gun against mega particle cannons, speed or evading ability would be the answer.

On the case of spiked shoulder on Zaku II. I think it's more to aesthetic function rather the functionality. Think of this way, a smooth shoulder compare to spiked devil-horned armored shoulder. Which one is more menacing to the enemy? It also could boost the morale of the pilot and have a slight degree of functionality, as to ram something when you're out of weapon and out of option.

[mcred23]

That seems largely right, although one error does strike me...

Let's erase the fighter like saberfish from the calculation since their vulcan targeting system and missiles are pretty much absolute because of Minovsky Particle interference.

This is incorrect, the Saberfish's targeting systems work just fine and it can fight fine. The only loss it has due to Minovsky Particle interference is that it's missiles, which like most others developed before the OYW, were intended to be guided in some manner, can't be guided and so they aren't nearly as effective when Minovsky Particles come into play. Still, like most fighters (And most other missile-firing weapons in the OYW), they end up being armed with dumb missiles.

That said, the Saberfish is in a situation similar to ships. It's guns are likely of similar size (If not smaller) to the AA guns mounted on ships, so they'll face the same problems in terms of dealing with a Zaku's armor, although they'll stand a better chance of gaining an angle from which to hit a more vulnerable spot. The missiles are probably more powerful than 25mm guns the Saberfish has, giving the fighter some real punch if they hit, but likely end up being easier to dodge than bullets (And it's pretty much a guarantee that a fighter will carry less).

The whole point being is that, while the Saberfish obviously isn't going to be as effective as Zaku (It won't be nearly as agile), it isn't going to be a non-factor like you made it out to be (And we know that on Earth, aircraft are still important, as we know the EFAF was big in that part of the war).

As for the Zaku's shields, you do hit the heart of the point: it's shields are designed and implimented mainly to fend against the smaller weapons that would be found as ship AA weapons or mounted on a fighter, while being able to dodge the larger stuff like beam cannons or ship launcher missiles to some degree. Zeon similarly designed the Rick Dom, the Zaku II's replacement for the space forces, to fight deal with those threats (Which an emphasis on anti-ship duty) and it was that design basis that later led to it's somewhat lackluster performance again Federation MS like the GM.

On the case of spiked shoulder on Zaku II. I think it's more to aesthetic function rather the functionality. Think of this way, a smooth shoulder compare to spiked devil-horned armored shoulder. Which one is more menacing to the enemy? It also could boost the morale of the pilot and have a slight degree of functionality, as to ram something when you're out of weapon and out of option.

That all sounds right, although I suspect Zeon told their pilots more about the horn being as some sort of last ditch weapon to be used only when nothing else could be, rather than it being an aesthetic choice.

[jamnewman0056]

Fighter craft gunfire aside maybe the shield was designed for flak or to help against flak or near misses. In the manga (Gundam the Origin)the shield was used by Char to guard against the Gundam's vulcans and the 60mm ammo can be fairly devastating. The shield was probably developed to guard against glancing shots buying the pilot enough time to put a fatal blow with a bazooka or machine gun.

[auriga]

Maybe because it's a SHIELD?