I hesitate to even start this topic because I fear it will be shut down almost immediately as potential flame bait material, but after seeing this thing I just couldn't help myself.
What mechanical designs or elements of mechanical design in anime really bother you? What mechs make you want to facepalm whenever you see them?
I personally find it hard to stomach the majority of Zanscare MS. They give us groaners like the aforementioned dragon MA (which would be really awesome... if it were in G-Gundam), motorcycle battleships, and the Einerad.
I used to complain quite vocally about First Neo Zeon MS, but my opinions have cooled a bit there. The only one that still draws my open contempt every time I see it is the Gaza-C, though even in its case a new color scheme may make it tolerable.
On a non-Gundam note, I've never been able to find anything visually appealing about Code Geass's mecha. While that may in fact be the point (I wouldn't know, I haven't really seen the series), it puts me off a bit.
In a completely generic sense, I've never been able to stand ANY hair on mechs aside from Genesic GaoGaiGar. That includes you, Nadleeh. Oh how you disappointed me.
What were they thinking? moments in mecha design
What were they thinking? moments in mecha design
Don't call it a comeback...
...in fact, it's best if you forget I was ever here before.
...in fact, it's best if you forget I was ever here before.
- ShadowCell
- Moderator
- Posts: 4716
- Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:59 pm
- Location: California
- Contact:
- Folken Fanel
- Posts: 811
- Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:57 pm
- Location: The Danger Zone
- Contact:
Well, it gives us something to talk about other than 00. Besides, pointing out wierd designs/design elements will spawn discussion about said design/design elements.
Mobile Suit Gundam: Neo
It's common knowledge that 99.99% of users on Youtube are ZOINKING idiots.
It's common knowledge that 99.99% of users on Youtube are ZOINKING idiots.
While I admit I gave pretty bad examples, the discussion could very well be from an in-universe standpoint... I don't see how motorcycle battleships, dragon-shaped MAs, or hairy robots would make any more sense within their fictional universes than they do in ours. This isn't intended so much to vent frustration about aesthetics (though again, I violated that myself with the Geass comment) as it is to complain about designs that strain or flat-out break suspension of disbelief. In Victory Gundam's case, I quit watching the show because of the utterly nonsensical mechanical design. Even within the parameters of the fictional UC world I can't wrap my brain around a good number of Zanscare designs. I can certainly tolerate the occasional strange decision on the part of the staff, but when it becomes par for the course it simply becomes unbearable.
Don't call it a comeback...
...in fact, it's best if you forget I was ever here before.
...in fact, it's best if you forget I was ever here before.
- ShadowCell
- Moderator
- Posts: 4716
- Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:59 pm
- Location: California
- Contact:
Or it could just lead to a lot of "I hate this design!" bitching, and sooner or later (probably sooner) someone will mention their hatred of a mecha design that someone else derives deep sexual satisfaction from, and then in AD 2008, war will be beginning, and you know how it'll go from there.Folken Fanel wrote:Well, it gives us something to talk about other than 00. Besides, pointing out wierd designs/design elements will spawn discussion about said design/design elements.
Like that.Commissar Bright Noa wrote:ZZ Gundam makes me cringe.
If you can find a way to twist this around into the "why'd they design it that way?" standpoint, then fine. But I'm sending this thread to that great big server in the sky if you can't.
Alright, let's have another go at this. Why DID someone feel the need to stick wheels on Zanscare's land battleships? While I personally find the entire land battleship concept to be ludicrous, at least the enormous hovercraft featured in other series are a bit more understandable than this monstrosity. When you take into consideration the fact that the wheeled units in V are also used in space, the whole situation starts to take on a surreal air. What in the world were they thinking? Does anyone have a clue?
Don't call it a comeback...
...in fact, it's best if you forget I was ever here before.
...in fact, it's best if you forget I was ever here before.
-
- Posts: 92
- Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 11:41 pm
- Arbiter GUNDAM
- Posts: 2904
- Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:36 pm
- Location: Cruisin' the Universe w/Spaceman Spiff!!!
- Contact:
As far as I know, mecha get designed to sometimes reflect the philosophies of whatever army/government they're being used by. They did that a lot in Star Wars, especially in the prequels. The SW EU has even wackier stuff like a starfighter shaped like a giant wasp or the much mocked (at least by me) Yuuzhan Vong coral ships. I'm sure that in Victory Gundam and ZZ and any of the others, they were just using designs they thought reflected the demeanor of Neo Zeon or Zanscare or whatever.
I can fly if I ride the wind! Gori gori!
--Freyja Wion
--Freyja Wion
I think many of the "What were they thinking?" moments in mecha design can't really be reduced to one simple answer. There may be numerous reasons why a choice was made to design a mecha such a way and not every reason may be as simple as "it was a bad idea". When you're working creatively, nothing can be sacred. You can't limit yourself to something that looks cool for fear of creating something that looks awful. The only way new and innovative design will ever be found is through experimentation and taking things in different directions, often beyond the bounds of good sense. Sometimes, the risk pays off. Other times, you get really lousy designs that are just embarrassing to gaze upon. I'll avoid pointing out examples since we obviously can't break any tulips in here.
Moving a bit beyond Gundam, I believe setting can be extremely important to the acceptance of certain mechanical designs. If the show in question is more ludicrous than say a real robot genre anime, creating a more over-the-top design with more flash might work quite well. In a more serious, morose setting, such a silly, garish design would be an awful choice that just makes one facepalm with a vengeance.
I often like to describe my likes and dislikes for mechanical design in the context of baroque robot motifs. Personally, I dislike baroque mecha designs because they just do not fit my idea of a real robot setting. If a robot is just too ornamental or too over-designed, there's no way you're going to convince me it's a piece of military hardware if you're setting is Gundam, Macross or Patlabor. Having said that, once you change the setting and the fiction itself, suddenly baroque mechanical design is not only aethetically pleasing, but incredibly creative. Take Five Star Stories as an example. The robots in FSS are presented as real robots, but the setting and the fiction totally supports the idea of baroque mecha as realistic military hardware. The entire story is that of a post-modernist far future feudal renaissance with each mecha not only built as a weapon of war, but also as an artistic symbol of the renowned heraldry of each fiefdom. The technology serves specific purposes and the goals for war in that setting totally justify the existence of such functional yet ornamental mecha.
Place a Gundam in the FSS and it looks ridiculous. Place a Mortar Headd in Gundam and it appears equally ridiculous. But within their own settings, the styles and visual presentation are justified and even brilliantly mesh with the story for a fully satisfying whole.
I hope that helps answer your question, even if it is more than a little non-specific
Moving a bit beyond Gundam, I believe setting can be extremely important to the acceptance of certain mechanical designs. If the show in question is more ludicrous than say a real robot genre anime, creating a more over-the-top design with more flash might work quite well. In a more serious, morose setting, such a silly, garish design would be an awful choice that just makes one facepalm with a vengeance.
I often like to describe my likes and dislikes for mechanical design in the context of baroque robot motifs. Personally, I dislike baroque mecha designs because they just do not fit my idea of a real robot setting. If a robot is just too ornamental or too over-designed, there's no way you're going to convince me it's a piece of military hardware if you're setting is Gundam, Macross or Patlabor. Having said that, once you change the setting and the fiction itself, suddenly baroque mechanical design is not only aethetically pleasing, but incredibly creative. Take Five Star Stories as an example. The robots in FSS are presented as real robots, but the setting and the fiction totally supports the idea of baroque mecha as realistic military hardware. The entire story is that of a post-modernist far future feudal renaissance with each mecha not only built as a weapon of war, but also as an artistic symbol of the renowned heraldry of each fiefdom. The technology serves specific purposes and the goals for war in that setting totally justify the existence of such functional yet ornamental mecha.
Place a Gundam in the FSS and it looks ridiculous. Place a Mortar Headd in Gundam and it appears equally ridiculous. But within their own settings, the styles and visual presentation are justified and even brilliantly mesh with the story for a fully satisfying whole.
I hope that helps answer your question, even if it is more than a little non-specific
-
- Posts: 1293
- Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:24 pm
- Location: Near Rockets
My picks are the various grunt Zaft suits that I can't remember the name of. The big artillery/anti-air guntank thingie always struck me as odd, because it always seemed to me as something more on EA technology level.
And the ZAFT aquatic MS have those weird legs and arms that make me shiver in horrified curiosity as they stomp and smash tanks and such.
And the ZAFT aquatic MS have those weird legs and arms that make me shiver in horrified curiosity as they stomp and smash tanks and such.
I'm sorry this letter is so long, but I did not have time to make it shorter. -Mark Twain
Official Jerid Fanboy
Official Jerid Fanboy
- J-Lead
- Posts: 1728
- Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:36 pm
- Location: (still) Standing on the edge of the crater
I suppose the Jupiter Empire suits in Crossbone Gundam don't seem right to me. In all honesty, I really like the designs themselves, and they definitely have a charming Tomino-esque feel to them, but let me reiterate a point that MrMarch just recently made; in the context of the Universal Century, those things just look completely out of place, thus rendering them ridiculous in my eyes. In short; fantastic story, bizarre antagonist mecha.
"I'd show Loni the power my parents gave me if you know what I mean."
im just going to chalk it up to eccentricity in the designer's mind itself. sure its not feasible or even rational but it looks imposing and unique and its not so far off from a lot of real life military projects/blunders from some very egomaniacal military minds.
setsuna: I AM A GUNDAM!!!
graham: I AM A FLAG!!!
(setsuna giggling)
graham: NO!! i said FLLLAG!
graham: I AM A FLAG!!!
(setsuna giggling)
graham: NO!! i said FLLLAG!
I think there is a small difference here depending on are we talking about aesthetics or practical use. To draw some reference from the real world, I am sure some here can quote hardware that is butt-ugly but did its job. The same applies to good design ideas, but bad implementation. In that category you could lump pretty much almost every German heavy tank beyond the Tiger I from WWII; they all broke down, gulped their gas, were slow as heck and total fodder when attacked from the air. But they were BIG and POWERFUL with BIG GUNS, so they were built nonetheless. As razgriz pointed out, imposing and unique can become as valuable as usability.
There are a few designs in Gundam that are a bit of both. Some are really ugly, and some are just plain errors in judgment when it came to financing something that looked really, really cool on paper. For example in CE, I agree with Dean_the_Young (I think you referred to GaZuOOT?) when I say that the ZAFT aquatic MS are plain weird, but then again maybe (I am willing to give the designers the hypothetical credit) they are shaped such to enable movement in water better. What are they doing out of water, well, your guess is as good as mine. And then, of course, we have the golden joints of the SF.
There are a few designs in Gundam that are a bit of both. Some are really ugly, and some are just plain errors in judgment when it came to financing something that looked really, really cool on paper. For example in CE, I agree with Dean_the_Young (I think you referred to GaZuOOT?) when I say that the ZAFT aquatic MS are plain weird, but then again maybe (I am willing to give the designers the hypothetical credit) they are shaped such to enable movement in water better. What are they doing out of water, well, your guess is as good as mine. And then, of course, we have the golden joints of the SF.
-We will not be caught by surprise!
*Almost everyone I've killed uttered similar last words.
-Then I am glad once again that you are on my side.
*They've often said that too.
*Almost everyone I've killed uttered similar last words.
-Then I am glad once again that you are on my side.
*They've often said that too.
- Nightwing03
- Posts: 1151
- Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:14 am
- Location: I'm to your left! No your other left!
- Contact:
I honestly dont know what the designers were thinking when they came up with some of the AoZ designs, most of them have bits and pieces hanging everywhere that probably do nothing, especially near the crotch area like the RX-124 TR-6 [Kehaar II] and RX-124 TR-6 [Woundwort].
What's the point of having 3 legs? XD
What's the point of having 3 legs? XD
♣♦♠♥
its an age old sci fi design ethos of greebling, meaning to add nonfunctional useless techno clutter to keep ur design from looking too plain e.g. the borg cubes in star trek or the star destroyers in star wars or even the later macross sdfs
setsuna: I AM A GUNDAM!!!
graham: I AM A FLAG!!!
(setsuna giggling)
graham: NO!! i said FLLLAG!
graham: I AM A FLAG!!!
(setsuna giggling)
graham: NO!! i said FLLLAG!
-
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:07 pm
For me it has to be any Variation of the Justice or Freedom. They are just too jam packed with every single weapon imaginable. It looks like a franken made by a 11 year old fan. I think the justice's shin beams look terrible and just serve to add to the god modding feel of the machine. I love simple designs like the V2 gundam, or wing zero. Give me 2 beam sabres, a shield and a rifle anyday other a machine jam packed with extra's that they don't have enough time to animate them all.
Re: What were they thinking? moments in mecha design
When I first saw that Motorcycle battleships, I couldn't believe my eyes that "that" is in the Gundam series. I really want to see the design to fit in the anime conditions, that thing maybe acceptable for other anime but really distasteful for the current show it's in. But hey, it's probably just from my side of view and anyone may agree or disagree.Ascension wrote:I personally find it hard to stomach the majority of Zanscare MS. They give us groaners like the aforementioned dragon MA (which would be really awesome... if it were in G-Gundam), motorcycle battleships, and the Einerad.
-
- Posts: 59
- Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:54 pm
I myself like the design of the Einerad
It's a wheel like tank track (it have beam coating) protecting your MS
and have on board weapon and you can roll people over with that tank track
combine with MS's beam shield to cover both side of the wheel no weapon can touch you
even if the Einerad is destroy the MS inside still function
not like other support unit you can aim the MS who is driving it
I think it make prefect logical sense
As for the motorcycle battleship maybe it look funny but if you see one coming at you either scare and run away or you laugh your ass off and you couldn't fight
both Zanscare and Jupiter Empires' MS they might look weird in some people eyes but they represent a different force and reflect their own culture, their liking.
It make prefect sense that they look weird because they not lived on earth for god sake
It's a wheel like tank track (it have beam coating) protecting your MS
and have on board weapon and you can roll people over with that tank track
combine with MS's beam shield to cover both side of the wheel no weapon can touch you
even if the Einerad is destroy the MS inside still function
not like other support unit you can aim the MS who is driving it
I think it make prefect logical sense
As for the motorcycle battleship maybe it look funny but if you see one coming at you either scare and run away or you laugh your ass off and you couldn't fight
both Zanscare and Jupiter Empires' MS they might look weird in some people eyes but they represent a different force and reflect their own culture, their liking.
It make prefect sense that they look weird because they not lived on earth for god sake