extended spatial awareness's edge?

[Den]

i was wondering if the edge that Rau and Mwu have, The extended spatial awareness, has become useless due to the new kind of dragoon system that the new MS have? because if anyone can control dragoons, then they can use it like Mwu? or having the extended Spatial awareness would give Mwu and Rau better control over the dragoons?

[ShadowCell]

DRAGOON units take up a lot of energy, so I wouldn't expect to see most people using such systems--especially if most of the Cosmic Era's mobile suits are going to be running off batteries.

[Den]

but regardless of energy, lets just say that you compare the way kira pilots the strike freedom's dragoon and how Mwu/Neo controls the Akatsuki's dragoons, would they have the same performance? or would the dragoon of the strike perform better in the hands of Mwu and Rau?

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

It'd hard to say given that not much is known on what the whole "spatial awareness" trait actually is and how it works besides being able to use such devices normally...some people call it being "Newtype-like", but I'm not so sure about that (since Newtype abilities are more than simply psycommu control and sensing others with the same abilities).

[ShadowCell]

Uh, the way Kira moved the Strike Freedom's DRAGOONs and the way Mwu moved the Akatsuki's remote turrets are, like, identical. Stock footage and all. So if anything, the difference between the performance of, say, the Mobius Zero's gunbarrels and the Akatsuki's remote turrets would seem to lie in improved technology, not anybody's spatial awareness or whatever.

[Duraham]

wait, isn't the "spatial awareness" thing just refering to how some people can get a clearer overview of what is going on that others, and thus are more able to perceive where the DRAGOONs are and etc. ?

this would be pretty important in GS, where the Mobius Zero's wired gunbarrels (and Providence's DRAGOONs, but that is highly debatable) are manually controlled. being able to easily know where each gunbarrel is located throughout the battlefield is a highly valued asset.

real life eg. compare controlling 4 units with a 1st person shooter view and a overhead view, aka RTS games. say, counterstrike vs red alert 2. which one is easier?

by GSD though, the computers may have advanced to such a level where manual controls is no longer needed. which is good, just look at the Providence or Legend. 13 and 12 DRAGOONs respectively, that's a lot of micro-management!

[Recon 5]

The FPS versus RTS comparison isn't that good. Try controlling 4 players in an FPS AT ONCE and doing it WELL. Thats what makes people with Rau and Mwu's abilities so special.

The normal- use DRAGOONs probably have a computer handling things like evasion and movement, making it possible to just pick targets and order the units to attack without having to play a dozen flight sims at once . Think of what the Haro does in 00 and multiply that by the number of DRAGOONs involved .

[Den]

hmm so in short, the special abilities of Mwu/Neo and Rau was made almost useless due to the improvement of technology?

[Commissar Bright Noa]

No, because we don't know (or at least I don't know) how effective the DRAGOON system is with a non newtype.

[stormturmoil]

also, the spatial awareness may make a person more effective when fighting against Dragoons as when fighting with them, since they can keep track of everything more capably.

[Gadget]

Spatial awareness makes a fighter pilot more effective, with or without bits, funnals, or DRAGOONS. Afterall, air combat is a form of 3-D chess.And Kira did defreat the Providence with the non-DRAGOONed Freedom.

In Raw, Mu and Kira cases, it's just their spatial awarness makes them even more deadly with DRAGOONS. And this goes to show how 'good' Kira is without the DRAGOON. And in Strike Freedom, Kira's spatial awarness helps him in defense by doing the 'spider web' dance.

And as for the Newtype abilities arguments, I'll leave that out as NT was never confimed, but only suspected.

Try playing Homecoming (3D) vs Command and Conqure (2D).

[Dark Duel]

No, because we don't know (or at least I don't know) how effective the DRAGOON system is with a non newtype.

1. There's no such things as Newtypes in CE
2. Going by on-screen evidence, there appears to be no difference in the effectiveness of the new-generation DRAGOON System as compared to the old system.

[Commissar Bright Noa]

No, because we don't know (or at least I don't know) how effective the DRAGOON system is with a non newtype.

1. There's no such things as Newtypes in CE
2. Going by on-screen evidence, there appears to be no difference in the effectiveness of the new-generation DRAGOON System as compared to the old system.

1. What do you call them? That's what Mr. Flashback said they were.

2.There were no DRAGOONs used by anyone other than La Flaga people or Kira (who is kind of a La Flaga person too)

[Den]

but the topic here is not about the dragoon system itself. what i was wondering about is that, would the new and improved version of the dragoons lessen the importance of people, who like Mwu and Rau, have an expanded spatial awareness. And speaking of Newtypes, it was never said that Mwu et al are newtypes. They are just people who has a higher sense of spatial awareness. The sixth sense thing like sensing Rau from a-far was something that cannot be explained though

[Commissar Bright Noa]

but the topic here is not about the dragoon system itself. what i was wondering about is that, would the new and improved version of the dragoons lessen the importance of people, who like Mwu and Rau, have an expanded spatial awareness. And speaking of Newtypes, it was never said that Mwu et al are newtypes. They are just people who has a higher sense of spatial awareness. The sixth sense thing like sensing Rau from a-far was something that cannot be explained though

I realize that they are not called newtypes in the show but Fuduka (sp?) has said in interview that they are newtypes (at least that's what I remember but don't trust me on that.). Also, I haven't seen anyone who is not related in some way to the La Flaga family or is a "newtype".

[toysdream]

There are official answers to some of these questions - most of them provided via the kit manuals written by the show's science advisor, Shigeru Morita - but they don't necessarily match what you'd expect from watching the show.


Officially, earlier ranged weapons like the Moebius Zero's gunpods and the Providence's DRAGOONs could only be used by people with exceptional powers of "spatial awareness." The mobile armor Pergrande, which appeared in the Astray B serial, got around this by controlling its remote weapons with a team of three normal humans (one apiece for the X, Y, and Z coordinates).

Obviously Mu La Flaga, Rau Le Creuset, and Rey Za Burrel all have these abilities. Other people with these "spatial awareness" abilities include the fourteen other pilots of Mu's Moebius Zero squadron - all now deceased - as well as Morgan Chevalier, Prayer Reverie (who appears to be a clone of one of the Moebius Zero pilots), and test pilot Courtney Hieronymous.

By the time of Seed Destiny, ZAFT has supposedly developed an improved version of the DRAGOON system which lets normal humans use these weapons. This would explain how Sting is able to control the Chaos Gundam's weapon pods, and why Athrun and Cagalli are offered mobile suits with remote weapons (even if they never use them). The same system is supposedly used in the Strike Freedom, so there isn't necessarily anything special about Kira in this respect.


That's the official explanation. Unofficially, it seems pretty clear from the animation that Kira has the same abilities as Mu and Rau. Not only can he control the Strike Freedom's DRAGOONs, but even in the final episodes of Gundam Seed we see Rau sensing his presence in the same way that he and Mu sense each other. The example of Morgan Chevalier and Prayer Reverie in the X Astray side story, who are able to communicate telepathically in mid-battle, confirms that these extra-sensory powers go hand in hand with the "spatial awareness" powers required to control remote weapons.

For whatever reason, though, these telepathic abilities - and their connection to the infamous "spatial awareness" - are unrecognized either in the Seed universe or in the official publications. It's quite possible that these are the functional equivalent of U.C. Newtypes, but because nobody recognizes that they exist, they haven't bothered coming up with a word for them.

-- Mark