Questions on the Gwazine class

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KainFenris
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Questions on the Gwazine class

Post by KainFenris » Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:53 pm

A friend and I are having this discussion, but to set it straight id rather ask the experts (well Ive read responses here and most generally know what they are discussing about here) so I thought id bring it up here.

My friend says the Gwazine Class has rear ms catapults? Is that true? If so how many? If not thats fine.

And last question, does the Gwazine Class have the Zeonic conventional drop bay to launch mobile suits also? If so how many Mobile Suits could it deploy at once from this drop bay, If not its also fine.

Thank you for your time and future responses.
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Post by ShadowCell » Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:01 pm

I don't think the Gwazine-class has any catapults at all. As far as I can recall, in the animation Kycilia's Gwazine just opened up a big hatch and a bunch of mobile suits jumped out.

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Post by Kavik Ryx » Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:10 pm

From what we saw in Zeta Gundam, the Gwazine did have a full hanger, but lacked a catapult system.

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Post by Mwulf » Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:13 pm

To my knowledge, MS catapults were a pretty late development. The ONLY OYW ship to have them was the White Base, and it's sister-ships. They weren't really commonplace 'till the CCA era.
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Post by wing zero alpha » Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:19 pm

Mwulf wrote:To my knowledge, MS catapults were a pretty late development. The ONLY OYW ship to have them was the White Base, and it's sister-ships. They weren't really commonplace 'till the CCA era.
Actually, Musais had catapult systems themselves, even though they aren't the same as the White Base's (they fire MS out horizontally). But then Musais were designed to actually carry and support MS, whereas the other Zeon ships like the Chivvay, Zanzibar and Gwazine, if I remember correctly, were only changed around to support MS later, thus no cats.

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Post by ShadowCell » Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:23 pm

The Dolos-class carriers had catapults too--except that they were introduced at A Baoa Qu, at the very end of the war.

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Post by CYNICISM AT IT'S BEST » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:07 am

Mwulf wrote:To my knowledge, MS catapults were a pretty late development. The ONLY OYW ship to have them was the White Base, and it's sister-ships. They weren't really commonplace 'till the CCA era.
actually catapults become common place with the Salamis Kai, and IIRC the Gwazine had a back hatch and a dorsal bay.

Edit: Wait, wasn't the Dolowa at Solomon?

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Post by J-Lead » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:28 am

CYNICISM AT IT'S BEST wrote:Edit: Wait, wasn't the Dolowa at Solomon?
Encounters in Space (PS2 Game, not the movie,) would seem to indicate that, but I haven't the foggiest idea what the official stance of that is.
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Post by HalfDemonInuyasha » Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:28 am

Well, according to the profiles, there were 2 Dolos-class ships made and the Dorowa was one of those Dolos-class ships according to the ever unreliable Encounters in Space game (and both were destroyed at A Baoa Qu, as Gato finds out in the beginning of 0083 since it was where he was stationed).

And also, there weren't any catapults on the Gwazine-class either. We also see, besides what was mentioned already, Cima in the Gerbera Tetra and a few of her marines launching from the Gwazine after her failed capture of Delaz and they seemed to be just propelling themselves out. (and there was no indication of catapults when they show the inside being blasted by her beam machinegun)

But yeah, Federation ships were the first ones to use the more common catapults while other ships (as mentioned and shown in 0083) had horizontal launchers that the MS latched onto with its backpack and were simply "tossed" out.

By early Zeta, they pretty much became commonplace among all ships that carry MS.
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Post by razgriz » Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:16 am

cima's zanzibar probably had its side catapults fitted after the war since the original zanzis just had doors for the ms to fly out paratrooper style
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Post by wing zero alpha » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:33 pm

razgriz wrote:cima's zanzibar probably had its side catapults fitted after the war since the original zanzis just had doors for the ms to fly out paratrooper style
I think the Zanzibar II-class was made during the War, specifically when mobile suits became prized possessions and ships were being made to support them (like the Tivvay-class). I can't really see the catapults being jury rigged onto the Lili Marlene with the resources that were available to the post-war Marines, unless they got Anaheim to do it for them.

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Post by razgriz » Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:39 am

:lol: damn those retroactive rewrites
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Post by mcred23 » Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:19 am

razgriz wrote::lol: damn those retroactive rewrites
It isn't. We know fairly little about the Zanzibar II class (The Lili Marleen is the only one ever seen in animation) and as wza notes, it was likely built later in the war when Zeon ships were starting to have better facilities and equipment to support MS. And with the way those catapults are built into the ship, I can't see those being anything other than an original part of the ship from when it was built.
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Post by duke4799 » Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:06 am

wing zero alpha wrote:But then Musais were designed to actually carry and support MS, whereas the other Zeon ships like the Chivvay, Zanzibar and Gwazine, if I remember correctly, were only changed around to support MS later, thus no cats.
I think you may be mistaken. Most, if not all Zeon ships built for the War were fitted for MS support because the Zeon used MS from the very first offensive. Any ships they may have had built pre-war may not have been, but by the time the war roled around, all the ships were being built for MS transport.

You may be thinking of the Salamis and Magellan ships of the Federation which were not built for MS transport until they slapped on the Ball and GM racks.

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Post by HalfDemonInuyasha » Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:11 am

Yeah, the only warship of Zeon that wasn't designed to carry MS that I'm aware of is the Chivvay-class, but the way it was designed still allowed it to be able to anyway. While not meant SPECIFICALLY for that role like the Musai was later on, it still could work similar to one with its large cargo hold. As mentioned, the Zanzibar and the Gwazine were both also designed to carry and support MS. The only thing lacking being the catapult system, which they didn't manage to integrate until the end of the war. (in things like the Dolos-class and whatnot)

Also as mentioned, it was the Salamis and Magellan-class ships that weren't designed with MS in mind or even the Ball. It all started with their Columbus-class carriers for carrying fighters (and they sucked at it, lol). All they could do at the time was slap the Ball and GM units magnetically onto the hulls of the ships and they simply detatched when they reached the proper area.

Even after the war, things like the Salamis Kai, Magellan Kai, and others still weren't designed specifically with MS in mind since even then, it seemed more like a phase to them...it wasn't until after 0083 were Federation ships then designed to support and carry MS with the Alexandria, Dogosse Gier, and the later Clop and Ra Cailum-classes and so on.
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Post by toysdream » Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:57 am

HalfDemonInuyasha wrote:Also as mentioned, it was the Salamis and Magellan-class ships that weren't designed with MS in mind or even the Ball. It all started with their Columbus-class carriers for carrying fighters (and they sucked at it, lol). All they could do at the time was slap the Ball and GM units magnetically onto the hulls of the ships and they simply detatched when they reached the proper area.
Not really. Although we see Balls and GMs riding on the hulls of Magellan-class battleships during the final Battle of A Baoa Qu, this isn't their primary means of transportation. In the animation, we clearly see that the Magellan and Salamis have cargo holds that can hold several GM mobile suits, which are deployed through a belly hatch. This is actually the only way the Salamis carries mobile suits in the animation; unlike the Magellan, it doesn't seem to have enough flat surfaces for mobile suits to stand on its hull.

In this respect, the Salamis and Magellan resemble older Zeon ships such as the Chivvay, which likewise carries its mobile suits standing upright in a cargo hold. Even the Zanzibar, which was created after the introduction of the mobile suit, deploys them through a belly hatch just like the Federation warships. Only the Musai, Papua, and Dolos seem to have actual catapults for deploying mobile suits.

I'm actually a little puzzled why, aside from these three examples, the mobile suit facilities of Zeon warships are so rudimentary. The Zanzibar has to operate in atmosphere as well as in space, so it may not have been feasible for its mobile suits to lie down on a catapult, and by some accounts the Gwazine was also designed with atmospheric flight in mind. Still, they do seem a little retro. Perhaps, as some of the books suggest, the original plan was to carry mobile suits only aboard Musai cruisers.

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Post by razgriz » Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:49 am

sortof akin to most large modern surface navies having most of if not all their fixed and rotor winged assets on carriers or assault ships instead of sticking them on every single cruiser, frigate, and destroyer you have.
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Post by toysdream » Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:04 am

Exactly. Of course, it's one thing to gather your mobile suits aboard a large carrier like the Dolos, and quite another to use your standard mass-produced cruiser as your main mobile suit platform.

On the other hand, compared to other Zeon ships, the Musai seems to be almost as much a transport ship as a fighting vessel. Its engine blocks are arranged so that an HLV can be carried in between, a reentry shuttle takes up much of the bow, and the bridge sits on top of a cargo bay with a rear-facing hatch (which doesn't seem ideal for combat deployment). Perhaps, back when the Zeon leadership were uncertain as to the real value of the mobile suit, they decided to use the Musai as a carrier because it was halfway to being a transport ship already.

So perhaps it's no coincidence that the only other standard Zeon vessel with mobile suit catapults is the Papua transport ship...

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Post by razgriz » Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:41 am

the musai seems analoguous to the assault ships in todays navy like the tarawa class and so forth. they look like a small aircraft carrier, carrying usually one squadron of 12 harriers and around 24 helicopters of various types but also room in the flooded stern area for landing craft, hovercraft, and such. so instead of a large armada you can just have a smaller flotilla of one of those and a few support vessels, i guess naval warfare probably wont change much in a few hundred years when it moves to space
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Post by Random Zaku Pilot » Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:36 pm

I thought the Musai was built like that because it was the Zeon MP ship so as a MP ship that will be in the fronts why not make it Multipurpose. Main Role: MS transport/Battle Ship, Sub Role:Drop important people in little reentry capsule with Two MS.

So you see they try to make the Ship versatile even if some parts doesn't seem ideal. But I always thought the Zeon went with lets just hurry and get ships out there concept so they decided to not change development to add a catapults to ships. But why the Chivvay does not have a catapult I would like to know its a front line ship.

Plus ships like Zanzibar's, Gwazine's, and Chivvay's are basically command ships well not the Chivvay but the other two are. So why would command ships really need to be out in a situation where rapid deployment is necessary when you have ships that can do that while you stay in the background and deploy. Cause we all know we ain't going to see a Gwazine or Zanzibar patrolling when you can send two Musai's to do the job.
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