Ground mobile suit (non-flying) in SEED++ series

[exxecutor000]

With all those flying MS in SEED/Destiny/Stargazer/Astray, let's discuss why the ground MS is still feasible

Let me start it off:

I think ground-based MS is still feasible for/because:
-very practical in bad weather
-artillery support
-energy efficient (flying use more energy to overcome gravity)
-able to utilize environment such as hills/trench in a battle

[Zeonic Glory]

Don't forget:

Fighting in special environments (water, forest, desert, etc)

Less time (and maybe resources) to spend dropping units from atmosphere then bringing them back up to space

Easy to get reinforcements (it must take time to fly in orbit over the battlefield, prep units for drop, then drop them)

[Destroy Gundam]

Element of suprise, like coming up from underground. (Geo-GOOhN, Agg)

[J-Lead]

- Less of a target for forces with anti air equipment (which is very common.)

- The ability to shoot down enemy flight capable MS with the same Anti Air weaponery.

- They can equip a bigger variety of weapons and doodads without having to worry about the implications on flight capability.

- They can pack on more armor than flight capable units. (which sort of goes hand in hand with the above statement.)

- This is just a guess on my part, but they are probably less expensive.




-able to utilize environment such as hills/trench in a battle

Well, flight capable MS could do that too. It's just that, y'know...why bother?

[mcred23]

-- This is just a guess on my part, but they are probably less expensive.

Going off of that, ground-pounders are probably (compared to an airborne MS) easier to maintain due to their lacking all the flight-required stuff and yes, lacking those peices of technology and whatnot does probably make them somewhat cheaper.

[Phantomexe87]

They also seem to live longer, based off of the Windam mortality rate in Seed Destiny, I think the Impulse alone shoots down two dozen on screen, and it's not exactly an exceptional mobile suit either.

[Zeonic Glory]

Here's another advantage:

Sniping enemy bases from a far location (you saw what the Xamel did to Torrington Base. You can snipe from a mountain with camo colors and all that good stuff)

[Bangdoll]

Nah, I don't think ground MS are feasible because you can just have vehicles that can perform virtually all of the above stated functions at 20 times less cost.

[Destroy Gundam]

Nah, I don't think ground MS are feasible because you can just have vehicles that can perform virtually all of the above stated functions at 20 times less cost.

And the one consistant thing in SEED, for example, is that ground vehicles are worthless. In the Porta Panama battle, we see one GINN easily take out 3 tanks with little effort. At the JOSH-A batttle, a single BuCUE wipes out most of a tank division. In Berlin, the Destroy casually wipes out ZAFT's armored vehicles. A tank needs to practically be on top of a GINN to do any damage, otherwise it won't penetrate the armor.

Mobile suits are more expensive, but they carry much heavier weapons and are much more agile in rough terrain.

[Bangdoll]

Nah, I don't think ground MS are feasible because you can just have vehicles that can perform virtually all of the above stated functions at 20 times less cost.

A tank needs to practically be on top of a GINN to do any damage, otherwise it won't penetrate the armor.

Mobile suits are more expensive, but they carry much heavier weapons and are much more agile in rough terrain.

You do not understand. Say you have this MS carrying this super-hyper-mega-cannon-that-killz-all, so it has good firepower, right? Well, you can put that same weapon on a vehicle. Say you have this MS with great PS-thick-wonder-armor-that-sellz-toys. You can put that same armor on a vehicle.

And that vehicle will be 20 times cheaper, with the additional benefits of less vulnerabilities (joints, anyone? Not to mention that beautiful head that is right up there for all to see and shoot at.), much easier & cheaper to maintain, much easier to control (thus greater availability of drivers, ease of training them), much lower target profile, far simpler electronics.

And the theory that MS can carry heavier weapons than vehicles, that's a misconception right there. A tracked vehicle can carry a much heavier load because it doesn't have to divide all that weight onto two relatively small areas unlike an MS. Those feet of a 100-ton MS (it's carrying heavy weapons, right? ) is going to exert a lot of pressure onto the ground. And since this ground-based MS is going to operate not just on reinforced concrete, but on forest, desert and other natural terrain, there will be many situations where its feet will sink into the ground every heavy step it takes. When that happens, it's not going to be agile. Actually, it may even fall over if it tries to skip around in that scenario.

Not that agility matters here, anyway. Have you ever dodged a bullet? Well, I haven't heard of anyone who can. Even less plausible than that are 100-ton ground MS that can dodge projectiles that travels far faster than bullets (tank shells, railgun shells), or missiles, or particle beams, or, gasp, lasers. Oh yeah, talking about missiles, even if that lovely PS armor can withstand the impact and explosion, the resulting shockwave may cause that MS (with a high center of gravity and standing on two legs) to actually fall. Something that won't happen to a PS-armored vehicle.

But, there is actually one thing that ground-based MS does much better than vehicles, and that is to strike one of those fancycool poses after it shoots down a grunt. Nope, a vehicle can't do that

[J-Lead]

I sense yet another "real life practicality of mecha" and "whatever mobile suits do, vehicles do better" discussion brewing. That kind of debate isn't allowed in Mecha talk and no one ever comes to a real conclusion, just a bunch of radically different opinions and none of them being entirely correct, considering that there is no real life evidence of mobile suits, or any mecha for that matter, being used against conventional vehicles. I'm no mod, but I'm asking this as a forum patron; Pleeeeeese stop right there as this has been covered to death many, many times before. I'd be a good idea to get back on topic before the almighty gods of moderation begin to consider doing what they do best (and anyone who's been to mecha talk for more than a two weeks knows what that is...)

(also, please try to stay in universe. In SEED, vehicles are weaker than MS. Realistic or not, that's the way it is.)

[Destroy Gundam]

On the subject of flight MS vs ground MS, very few mass-produced models built from the start for flight (which means M1 Shrike, 105 Dagger, Dagger L and Windam are excuded, as their flight ability comes from an add-on) carry melee weapons. The DINN and BABI sure don't, leaving the Murasame as the only MP flyer to carry a melee weapon.

There's also heavier armor. In order to fly, less mass and less weight is needed, so the armor needs to be thinner in order to allow for flight. And since the ground-pounder isn't likely to fly without help, e.g. Guul, it can have thicker armor to protect against heavier physical rounds.

[Scorchijs]

Here's another advantage ground MS have over flying MS.
IMO ground based MS are more accurate, than those in the air. After all, the ground provides a reasonably good and stable firing position.
Of course, someone might counter this by saying that the aerial MS can use their booster in order to "hang" motionlessly in the air and fire with the same accuracy. While it might be possible, there are some flaws to this.
1. A motionless aerial MS is a target, few people could resist to shoot at.
2. Even if we ignore the first problem, the second problem is vibration. All those thrusters/boosters, which are keeping the MS motionless in the air, cause vibrations.
Maybe not strong enough to cause the said unit to shake like a cellphone or other ... object, whose sole purpose in life is to vibrate, but clearly enough to have some effect on the accuracy.
Sure, maybe you won't feel it if the end of your weapon is sticking in the back of your target's head. But it will sure be a factor when you are firing at those flammable looking gas tank, which are .... let's say 3 or 5 km away.
Maybe you will still hit them and cause a nice explosion, so let's imagine a situation where accuracy really counts. Let's say you're targeting ... Strike Freedom (forgive me Kira fans), who is pwning everything and everyone quite a distance away. Ohh.. and he haven't noticed you ... yet. So, instead of going straight trough the cockpit and ... disposing of the pilot. Your shot, which is affected by the vibrations slightly misses and hits the MS in a non vital area, the result is simple. Kira get's angry, he notices you and someone gets ... disposed off. No, not Kira.
In short even a slight vibration will affect your accuracy over long distances.

Another good thing for the ground MS is, that the ground provides a "place" where the recoil, from your BFG (Big-F******-Gun) can bleed off into, thus preventing you from shaking around like a cellphone or ...

[quasadra]

ground ms and aerial ms have a diffrent role in combat. aerial ms are quicker to deploy but have weaker armor. ground ms have better weapon performace but slower. i think they just complement each other on a battle. like aerial ms can spoted target for ground ms, and ground ms with heavier fire power can bombard the enemy with the info provided.

[J-Lead]

ground ms and aerial ms have a diffrent role in combat. aerial ms are quicker to deploy but have weaker armor. ground ms have better weapon performace but slower. i think they just complement each other on a battle. like aerial ms can spoted target for ground ms, and ground ms with heavier fire power can bombard the enemy with the info provided.

...with aerial support of the said airborne MS, hopefully. (they can do more than point out targets, after all. )

[Jak Stoller]

I just pictured a DINN pointing, repeatedly, at the strike, as its SD mono-eye slowly grows bigger as Kira hurtles closer, followed subsequently by a dismemberment, while the ZuOOT looks blankly in its general direction.

I think in the CE universe, it'd be more effective to have air units supporting ships and such, providing assitance and targeting info, while forward deployable units like the BuCUE (who and the heck made these acronyms? ) would provide ground assist for units less... mobile.

I also think air MS in SEED have been heavily Leo-fied The skygrasper takes a better beating than the DINNs do

--Jak

[Destroy Gundam]

They're not acronyms until Destiny. But the BuCUE is often paired with ZuOOT, it's even listed in this site's profile.

I just pictured a DINN pointing, repeatedly, at the strike, as its SD mono-eye slowly grows bigger as Kira hurtles closer, followed subsequently by a dismemberment, while the ZuOOT looks blankly in its general direction.

That made me chuckle.

[Gadget]

Do they telecast Zoids in CE? No matter what they say, BeCUE, in what ever form, will always be a Zoids reject. Maybe the designer see the advantage of the Blade Liger in Desert warfare

Another advantage of ground base MS is that they could be drop out of plane and get hook up with a pretty (and somewhat annoying) girl on a deserted island. (Think Athren in the Ageis).

I notice flying MS are bulkier due to the wings and back pack. In land operation, they could get trap by buildings and trees. Try running down the battle damage Orb cities then... CLANG!! Your wings get trap when you run down and ally way. So, they next you see could be the barrel of the ol' Astray.

In all warfare, victory is reckon when a troop is on the captured ground, not when the victor's flying machine flying overhead.

[quasadra]

In all warfare, victory is reckon when a troop is on the captured ground, not when the victor's flying machine flying overhead.

yep, air superiorty is just part of the objective.

[J-Lead]

Do they telecast Zoids in CE? No matter what they say, BeCUE, in what ever form, will always be a Zoids reject. Maybe the designer see the advantage of the Blade Liger in Desert warfare

That, and the BuCUE's literally started out in cel shaded CGI, similarly to Zoids. They were even copying the animation for a little while.

I notice flying MS are bulkier due to the wings and back pack. In land operation, they could get trap by buildings and trees. Try running down the battle damage Orb cities then... CLANG!! Your wings get trap when you run down and ally way. So, they next you see could be the barrel of the ol' Astray.

Well, DINNs could always retract the wings and land, but there's no real reason to, considering they have ground combat MS covering that base, and the lesser armor would only behoove the DINN.