Bit/Funnel/Dragoon Question

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RavenSly
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Bit/Funnel/Dragoon Question

Post by RavenSly » Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:19 am

One of my main ideas for a gundam has always been having bits with beam sabers attached to them. The basic concept would be having a single bit being able to engage an entire mobile suit in melee combat using sword moves, but without the restrictions of having a swordsmen to use the sword. The beam blade would have to be able to move as a real sword would, that means full maneuverability, able to fly sideways, foreward, backward, up, down, and so forth. There'sd also the question of would a bit be too easily destroyed? Its small so I guess I could have it be really fast, able to dodge an opponent's attacks. Basically, what I'm asking is would this work in a real battle situation? Would it be practical? Thoughts?
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Post by Genocide » Sun Apr 29, 2007 1:42 pm

This idea has been explored several times already, although perhaps not as 'successfully' according to your description. A few examples off the top of my head include the Psycho Gundam Mk II's detachable arms which projected beam swords, the Exus' gunbarrels which were equipped with beam blades, and Legend's beam-tipped DRAGOONs. More recently, I believe the NZ-666 Kshatriya from Unicorn also has funnels equipped with beam sabers. I'm sure there are more examples that I can't recall at the moment.

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Post by Toxicity » Sun Apr 29, 2007 7:56 pm

Since funnels and whatnot are controlled mentally by the suit's pilot, wouldn't you still need the swordsmanship skills to control the [insert remote weapon here]?

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Post by Shadowslayer » Sun Apr 29, 2007 8:08 pm

Sounds like a neat idea just take a saber add a largish thruster to it then a bunch of RCS thrusters for fine control. Or just strap on a saber to normal bits and do fly by attacks. Pilot would have to know how to sword fight but since its all mental control and not him pushing buttons the reaction time would be insane.
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Post by L » Sun Apr 29, 2007 8:50 pm

Toxicity wrote:Since funnels and whatnot are controlled mentally by the suit's pilot, wouldn't you still need the swordsmanship skills to control the [insert remote weapon here]?
This didn't seem that certain for advanced DRAGOON type weapons, as remarked by Dullindal that it doesn't need pilots with specific mental abilities etc to use it.

The melee-capable funnel/bit/dragoon/whatever remote weapon could be a good idea, but not regarding how they were controlled, going melee with those will need much more coordination and timing, say skill because they come close.
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Post by HalfDemonInuyasha » Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:13 pm

Yeah...I don't think they'd be able to be controlled well-enough for any sort of human-like melee abilities.

Even the ones that we have actually seen so far are mostly just straight out charging attacks or surprise attacks from behind or side (with the blade just straight out). Nothing really fancy like any sort of "invisible" body with an "invisible" hand wielding them and such.
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Post by razgriz » Mon Apr 30, 2007 4:30 am

it would probably be more effective to mount multiple blades on the weapons and have those things spin circles around the enemy ms so its like that poor guy is caught in a beam blender. unless your facing kira or amuro of course then nothing you can do or mount matters :wink:
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Post by Collector » Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:58 am

The exass in Seed destiny has blades on them, its in the 2nd or 3rd episodei believe when you first see exass in a battle fighting the impulse. so it is a used idea
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Post by razgriz » Tue May 01, 2007 2:19 am

exactly so it would be much more effective to have the funnel/dragoon/gunbarrel be used in that sense as a more complete composite weapon.
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Post by Collector » Tue May 01, 2007 11:43 pm

well, yes in a sense, but if you have guns or missles on it, you can keep it a distance away and use it over and over and over. where as if you have just blades on it, it has to make "strafing" runs which takes up time and propellant (in the case of UC). or are you talking about having both weapons on it?
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Post by Collector » Tue May 01, 2007 11:44 pm

well, yes in a sense, but if you have guns or missles on it, you can keep it a distance away and use it over and over and over. where as if you have just blades on it, it has to make "strafing" runs which takes up time and propellant (in the case of UC). or are you talking about having both weapons on it?
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Post by HalfDemonInuyasha » Tue May 01, 2007 11:56 pm

I'm also sure that blades were thought of before and while they may have been used sometimes, just having beams has always proven to be most effective. Simple, but deadly and also because you most likely won't be able to tell where they're going to come from with the next shot (unless you're a Newtype or have some way of tracking them).

With blades, the pilot will most likely be able to tell which way they're coming from before they can come into contact, making the bit/funnel/remote weapon more vulnerable.
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Post by razgriz » Wed May 02, 2007 3:51 am

collector i meant having both guns and blades on it so it can really mount an all range attack. like having the gun shoot at range then the dragoon/funnel/bit close in and finish it off with a slash.
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Post by RavenSly » Wed May 02, 2007 7:47 am

I was thinking of having it be a flat, blade shaped funnel with the saber on the end and then beams on each side
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Post by Zangetsu » Wed May 02, 2007 2:17 pm

It seems to me a saber funnel would be a more stabbing or drilling weapon to cut through a suit.
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Post by Collector » Wed May 02, 2007 5:05 pm

razgriz wrote:collector i meant having both guns and blades on it so it can really mount an all range attack. like having the gun shoot at range then the dragoon/funnel/bit close in and finish it off with a slash.
yeah,i didn't know if you were talkin like mobius zero or the exass
Zangetsu wrote:It seems to me a saber funnel would be a more stabbing or drilling weapon to cut through a suit.
as for the saber funnel, im assuming that the sabers would be like you suggested on the front, but i was also assumign that they be on the side so when the blades are extended they looked kinda like wings[/quote]
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Post by Gadget » Thu May 03, 2007 1:48 am

It think it'll be more like a batrang. But what is the point of having 2 weapon system where as one system could do both work.

Beside, only exceptionally good pilot could use such system. Beside NTs and super co-ordinators, most mortals could not use such a system. Unless there is very advanve AI to control the bit/funnal.

If I were to use the bit/funnal sabers, I could easily cut myself.

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Post by razgriz » Thu May 03, 2007 2:47 am

lol i think i would cut myself even with a standard beam saber, unless there was some sort of idiot-proofing in the ms combat programming to make sure that doesnt happen
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Post by Red XIV » Thu May 03, 2007 3:12 am

Zangetsu wrote:It seems to me a saber funnel would be a more stabbing or drilling weapon to cut through a suit.
IIRC, the Kshatriya's funnels in Unicorn look pretty much the same in configuration as the Qubeley, Quin Mantha, Alpha Azieru, etc funnels, so that would most likely be how they work.

This is just guesswork on my part, but I imagine they'll be basically a funnel version of the various combined beam gun/beam saber weapons.
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Post by J-Lead » Thu May 03, 2007 8:06 am

razgriz wrote:lol i think i would cut myself even with a standard beam saber, unless there was some sort of idiot-proofing in the ms combat programming to make sure that doesnt happen
:lol:
Funny you should bring that up, since there is, actually. There are safeguard programs in an Mobile Suit that prevent it from cutting itself. Same applies to beam shields; if the Mobile Suit should happen to swing the beam shield to a position where it may, lets say, cut it's leg, the beam shield would deactivate a portion of the shield to prevent any damage. Totally idiot-proof.

As for the beam funnel/dragoon idea, well, it wouldn't be able to fight as effectively as a mobile suit could with a beam saber. The force of the swing is created by the mobile suit itself, and suppose the saber/funnel clashed wiith an melee equipped mobile suit. The saber/funnel only has a few thrusters to provide the force, while an MS has it's mass, larger, more powerful thrusters, and the movement force generated by the internal motors. The saber/funnel would get thrown around easily and wouldn't be hard to counter. It'd be like fencing a mouse with a jetpack.
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