How niche was mecha in America before Transformers?

[False Prophet]

I know that Gigantor was aired in the 60s, but between that point and the mid-80s when shows like Transformers and Voltron were aired, how niche was mecha to the larger American audience? Like, I think I've seen pictures of Japanese mecha figures being sold in America in 81-82, but how widely were they sold? Or just how accessible was mecha anime during that period?

While we're at it, how popular were toys that were mecha-adjacent? Like, Star Wars and Star Trek models must have had sold like hot cakes, right? And then there were things like Thunderbirds vehicles.

[Seto Kaiba]

In a word... "Extremely".

There was some awareness of the mecha genre via bootlegs and imports of Japanese model kits at trade shows and the like, but it was Transformers that ignited the giant robot craze of the 80's in the US that led to the likes of Robotech, Force Five, etc.

Star Wars and Star Trek's merchandising success was pretty independent of the mecha genre's.

[MythSearcher]

I know that Gigantor was aired in the 60s, but between that point and the mid-80s when shows like Transformers and Voltron were aired, how niche was mecha to the larger American audience? Like, I think I've seen pictures of Japanese mecha figures being sold in America in 81-82, but how widely were they sold? Or just how accessible was mecha anime during that period?

I believe Japanese animation itself was niche between 60's to 80's.
I mean, they probably don't even know what shows are from Japanese. There were quite a lot of people who thinks Speed Racer is American...
(I still recall watching Cyber Formula Sin in the dorms 21 years ago and people say that I am watching Japanese version of Speed Racer.)

[Seto Kaiba]

I believe Japanese animation itself was niche between 60's to 80's.
I mean, they probably don't even know what shows are from Japanese. There were quite a lot of people who thinks Speed Racer is American...

Yeah, my dad was a big fan of Speed Racer and had no idea it was a Japanese series until I told him.

Those 60's-80's rewrites did an absolutely terrible job of crediting the original creators most of the time.

[MythSearcher]

Yeah, my dad was a big fan of Speed Racer and had no idea it was a Japanese series until I told him.

Those 60's-80's rewrites did an absolutely terrible job of crediting the original creators most of the time.

Worse, they don't even believe me when I told them Speed Racer was Japanese, they just laughed and say that I am just an anime fanboy who thinks everything is Japanese, not even when some guy from Guam who is half Japanese told them they are wrong and claims that Guam guy is just saying so because he's Japanese and asked us to check it for ourselves.(Wikipedia was not launched at the time.)

[Seto Kaiba]

Basically, there was a vague awareness of the Super Robot genre via bootlegs and the occasional bowdlerized dub like Gigantor... but for the most part "Japanimation" itself was extremely obscure at the time.

'bout the only way to get your hands on mecha model kits or toys back then would've been to go to one of the very niche, specialized trade shows that were held every so often where importers would occasionally showcase their wares. It was one such trade show where FASA discovered mecha anime model kits from a vendor named Twentieth Century Imports and decided to build a game around them without knowing at least one of the properties involved was already licensed exclusively by someone else.

Transformers wasn't the first show in the 80's robot boom - that honor arguably belongs to Divine Demon-Dragon Gaiking when it was released in the Northeastern US under the Force Five banner - but it was the one that really took off and made a phenomenon of itself, and thus defined the trend.

That's the reason so many boomers and such memetically refer to any giant robot as a Transformer... that was the show that defined the entire genre.

Several other titles, like Robotech, would not have existed at all if not for attempts to cash in on the success of the Transformers toy line.

[SonicSP]

I didn't even know Speed Racer was Japanese until I was in my teens in the 00s. And I'm not even from America.

Even now I still see it as mainly American series even though I know the original is Japanese. I am just that wedded to the dub version.

Also helped that the show actually has a strong Western theme even in the original I guess.

[Mafty]

I've read that the director of Speed Racer (or Mach GoGoGo originally) was a fan of Western movies particularly Viva Las Vegas and James Bond's gadget car in Goldfinger, which served as partial inspirations for the characters and designs.

[Seto Kaiba]

I've read that the director of Speed Racer (or Mach GoGoGo originally) was a fan of Western movies particularly Viva Las Vegas and James Bond's gadget car in Goldfinger, which served as partial inspirations for the characters and designs.

It wasn't the director of the TV anime, it was the author of the original manga... Tatsunoko Production Co. Ltd. founder Tatsuo Yoshida. Mach GoGoGo was based on an earlier racing series he drew called Pilot Ace, with some aesthetic and stylistic tweaks. Go Mifune's appearance was modeled on Elvis Presley's in Viva Las Vegas, and he was inspired to add more gadgets and gimmicks to the cars based on the Aston Martin DB5 in Goldfinger.

I've often wondered what he thought of his work being misattributed to Peter Fernandez for so long... even though the credits for the localization actually properly credited him as the original author and his brother as the lead designer.

[Underrated GM Custom]

Even now I still see it as mainly American series even though I know the original is Japanese. I am just that wedded to the dub version.

Same here, I know Speed Racer wasn't a western animation but it's hard not to think of it as one. I ended up watching the movie a few years ago and it was better than I expected.

[Mafty]

This is probably due to the rather different animation style in the show; as the 60s art style looks different from anime that would come out in the 80s and 90's, and honestly it looks kinda like an American cartoon in some parts animation wise(albeit a rather violent one; but even American cartoons in the 60s could get away with more, look at Johnny Quest for instance). The sort of look anime is usually associated with now seems to have come more into the 70s, and developed more following that period.

[MythSearcher]

This is probably due to the rather different animation style in the show; as the 60s art style looks different from anime that would come out in the 80s and 90's, and honestly it looks kinda like an American cartoon in some parts animation wise(albeit a rather violent one; but even American cartoons in the 60s could get away with more, look at Johnny Quest for instance). The sort of look anime is usually associated with now seems to have come more into the 70s, and developed more following that period.

Mainly because back in the late 40's and 50's, Japan's animation was still heavily based on Disney and Warner bros. God of Manga Osamu Tezukais a Disney fan.
They started to pick up different styles but obviously the people working in the industry won't magically change their style drastically over their life time, thus even in the 60's you still get styles really resembling American styles.

[False Prophet]

'bout the only way to get your hands on mecha model kits or toys back then would've been to go to one of the very niche, specialized trade shows that were held every so often where importers would occasionally showcase their wares. It was one such trade show where FASA discovered mecha anime model kits from a vendor named Twentieth Century Imports and decided to build a game around them without knowing at least one of the properties involved was already licensed exclusively by someone else.

Transformers wasn't the first show in the 80's robot boom - that honor arguably belongs to Divine Demon-Dragon Gaiking when it was released in the Northeastern US under the Force Five banner - but it was the one that really took off and made a phenomenon of itself, and thus defined the trend.

That's the reason so many boomers and such memetically refer to any giant robot as a Transformer... that was the show that defined the entire genre.

Several other titles, like Robotech, would not have existed at all if not for attempts to cash in on the success of the Transformers toy line.

I've talked to a few people who were anime fans back in the late 70s, and beside the trade shows you said, two other ways to get Japanese model kits or even taping of anime were to either find a store in a Japantown, or being friend with someone who constantly go back and forth between America and Japan. I think that is one reason why the West Coast back then had more anime fans in the metropolises than the East Coast and therefore began organizing anime clubs a bit sooner.

Now I really have to wonder how did Transformer G1 manage to take off and become that big? Is it about accessibility of the show and the toys?

[Seto Kaiba]

I've talked to a few people who were anime fans back in the late 70s, and beside the trade shows you said, two other ways to get Japanese model kits or even taping of anime were to either find a store in a Japantown, or being friend with someone who constantly go back and forth between America and Japan. I think that is one reason why the West Coast back then had more anime fans in the metropolises than the East Coast and therefore began organizing anime clubs a bit sooner.

I've heard it said that a driving force behind bootleg tapes making their way to the US was the rotation of troops between the US military bases in Japan and the US west coast. Amusingly, that osmosis seems to have also worked in reverse to a small extent with even a modest amount of American bowdlerizations being accidentally re-imported to Japan through those troops.

Now I really have to wonder how did Transformer G1 manage to take off and become that big? Is it about accessibility of the show and the toys?

Simple, really...

Thanks to - and no, we're not kidding - a coincidental encounter between a Hasbro executive and Marvel's President in the men's restroom at a charity event. Hasbro's executive mentioned that they were planning to relaunch their G.I. Joe brand of figures but were having trouble comingup with a new approach. Marvel's President pitched the idea of a joint venture, promoting the toy line with a comic book published by Marvel. That led to a series concept for a comic called Fury Force by artist Larry Hama being retooled into G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero and turned into a major marketing tie-in. It sold extremely well, and when Hasbro and Marvel decided to fund an animated series to promote it further.

When Hasbro acquired the Diaclone and Microman toys that became the G1 Transformers line, they basically turned to Marvel said "Wanna see if it'll work twice?". So they rolled out the toy line, comic, and animated series together and the marketing blitz between saturday morning cartoons, the comic shop, and the toy adverts included in newspapers and magazines built a huge amount of brand awareness very quickly, and the toys quickly became a hot ticket item due to that massive brand awareness and the sheer novelty of the "realistic" transforming robot concept.

That massive success set the tone for merchandise-driven children's shows of the era, but Hasbro already had a huge and commanding lead by owning two of the most popular properties in the running. Tonka's Go-Bots - a rebranding of toys by Bandai subsidiary Popy - actually beat them to market but didn't support their toy line with similar marketing at first and were subsequently plowed under. Other, later imitators like Revell and Harmony Gold's Robotech line failed to catch on as well in the face of Hasbro's absolute dominance of that specific market and marketing strategy.

Basically, it was that marketing blitz supported by Marvel's writers that made Transformers into a pop culture phenom and a massive money spinner like its predecessor G.I. Joe.

[False Prophet]

Simple, really...

Thanks to - and no, we're not kidding - a coincidental encounter between a Hasbro executive and Marvel's President in the men's restroom at a charity event. Hasbro's executive mentioned that they were planning to relaunch their G.I. Joe brand of figures but were having trouble comingup with a new approach. Marvel's President pitched the idea of a joint venture, promoting the toy line with a comic book published by Marvel. That led to a series concept for a comic called Fury Force by artist Larry Hama being retooled into G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero and turned into a major marketing tie-in. It sold extremely well, and when Hasbro and Marvel decided to fund an animated series to promote it further.

When Hasbro acquired the Diaclone and Microman toys that became the G1 Transformers line, they basically turned to Marvel said "Wanna see if it'll work twice?". So they rolled out the toy line, comic, and animated series together and the marketing blitz between saturday morning cartoons, the comic shop, and the toy adverts included in newspapers and magazines built a huge amount of brand awareness very quickly, and the toys quickly became a hot ticket item due to that massive brand awareness and the sheer novelty of the "realistic" transforming robot concept.

That massive success set the tone for merchandise-driven children's shows of the era, but Hasbro already had a huge and commanding lead by owning two of the most popular properties in the running. Tonka's Go-Bots - a rebranding of toys by Bandai subsidiary Popy - actually beat them to market but didn't support their toy line with similar marketing at first and were subsequently plowed under. Other, later imitators like Revell and Harmony Gold's Robotech line failed to catch on as well in the face of Hasbro's absolute dominance of that specific market and marketing strategy.

Basically, it was that marketing blitz supported by Marvel's writers that made Transformers into a pop culture phenom and a massive money spinner like its predecessor G.I. Joe.

A lot of this also has to do with Reagan's deregulation of the TV industry, right? I wonder how legally difficult it was before that point for toy companies to sponsor TV shows?

Not to mention that (from what I've heard) the US animation scene was in a rump. A lot of early anime fans become fans because US animations on TV were way, way behind in term of quality compared to their Japanese counterparts. Which now to think about it is probably why G1 looked so good in comparison despite how formulaic it was.

[hitokirigarou]

but it was Transformers that ignited the giant robot craze of the 80's in the US that led to the likes of Robotech, Force Five, etc.

Force Five aired four years before Transformers.

[Seto Kaiba]

Force Five aired four years before Transformers.

You're right, my apologies... for some reason, Force Five and Robotech always end up hand-in-hand in my head.

Transformers did grow awareness of Force Five after the robot trend really kicked off, which was fairly obscure thanks to its limited broadcast mainly in New England.