Rick Dias and Nemo

[Mafty]

Would both the Rick Dias and Nemo be considered mass production units? The Nemo is the general purpose backbone of the AEUG, while the Rick Dias is more heavily built and armed. Would both units be given to the AEUG pilots, or would the Rick Dias be a limited commander/ace pilot unit?

[yazi88]

They are both regular mass production units. Ricks Dias is not a limited production/ace pilot unit.

[Seto Kaiba]

Would both the Rick Dias and Nemo be considered mass production units? The Nemo is the general purpose backbone of the AEUG, while the Rick Dias is more heavily built and armed. Would both units be given to the AEUG pilots, or would the Rick Dias be a limited commander/ace pilot unit?

The RMS-099 Rick Dias is described officially as a mass-produced mobile suit... so yes.

[MythSearcher]

Would both the Rick Dias and Nemo be considered mass production units? The Nemo is the general purpose backbone of the AEUG, while the Rick Dias is more heavily built and armed. Would both units be given to the AEUG pilots, or would the Rick Dias be a limited commander/ace pilot unit?

Like the others said, both are mass production units, and as to why they stop producing the Rick Dias and favoured the overall weaker Nemo(all of its spec are lower, except maybe with the 5 extra verniers), I don't think it was ever mentioned. I speculate that the Nemo is vastly cheaper and possibly able to utilise a lot of GM production line and parts, while the Rick Dias is completely new with its own production line, AE likely wanted those to produce newer MS(and also supply NZ with some) With AEUG re-implementation into EFF, they likely have access to EFF production lines so the Nemo would be a sensible choice over the Rick Dias.

[Mafty]

That explains a lot. The Rick Dias seems like a better choice for mass production after the AEUG was folded in to the EF. But the EF really seems to favor units that are small and cheap for mass production, really the only suit that matches the Rick Dias bulk somewhat is the Gustav Karl. The fact few (if any) Rick Dias's survived the war, plus their replacement was sold to an enemy faction probably just compounded this.

[False Prophet]

How cheap is the Nemo actually? Because I wonder if it's so cheap, then why the GM III became the EFF's main fighting force during the First Neo Zeon War? It's very likely that the GM III is even cheaper than the Nemo, but I think there is also one factor (that also applied to the Rick Dias) that we must take into consideration: Axis has likely done something to disrupt Anaheim Electronics' production of the Nemo, or at least cause enough logistical problems that the EFF chose to go with the much more readily-available GM III

On that same train of thought, do you think the Rick Dias II/Schuzrum Dias and the Nemo III are feasible candidates to be the EFF's next mainline fighting MS? Feels like when it comes to this topic, the E.F.F. top brass are really conservative and would rather stick to the general layout of the GM, hence the Jegan.

[Kuruni]

Remember that the standard GM III aare upgraded from old and outdated GM II, they do build some more as Nouvel GM III but I doubt that there're many of them. Despite sharing many parts with GM II, you still have to built a whole new Nemo.

Also from what I know, GM III is only a stop gap model while the Jegan is already in development. The shoulder missile are therr so they still has some use as lonh range support once they have the Jegan.

I don't know where it come from, but supposely the Federation pass law that they can't use monoeye MS at all (thus why Asshimar and Doven Wolf have to be redesign with new head). So the existing Dias Series is out of question.

[Mafty]

It really seems as though the Federation is trying to cut costs wherever possible. That's probably why they insist on using either old units or upgrades of units, rather than try a higher quality new version. This can be seen with the repeated use of decades old equipment in the wars in the Second Universal Century.

[Seto Kaiba]

It really seems as though the Federation is trying to cut costs wherever possible. That's probably why they insist on using either old units or upgrades of units, rather than try a higher quality new version. This can be seen with the repeated use of decades old equipment in the wars in the Second Universal Century.

It's not that the Earth Federation is trying to cut costs wherever possible... it's that they're a government that has a finite budget derived from tax revenue. The money has to come from SOMEWHERE. If you tax your constituents to the brink of ruination, you won't be in government for very long.

The Earth Federation Forces are a substantial military that has a lot of manpower and materiel. But like any other organ of government they have to justify their requested budget to the general assembly. If they're spending in an irresponsible manner, their request won't get approved or their budget might get cut. As in the real world, they go with a lowest bidder acquisitions process to get the most value for the tax money they're spending. A Mobile Suit is not a trivial investment. It's a big, complicated piece of military machinery with significant maintenance demands. It's a significant capital expenditure. Not the kind of thing you can use for a few years and then throw away for the latest model's tiny incremental improvements.

The pace of "new model" MS development in Gundam, especially the UC, is really unrealistic... so the disparity you're seeing here is more to do with the gap between that unrealistic pace of development and the Federation's realistic approach to procurement. This is exaggerated further by the existence of paramilitary groups that have seemingly unlimited funding from who knows where like the AEUG, Karaba, etc.

In the real world, military equipment is kept in service until it's used up or hopelessly obsolete. The M1 Abrams MBT that is the mainstay of the US's armored cavalry? The first ones entered service in 1980. That's a 40+ year old design that is kept modern with incremental upgrades and retrofits to existing vehicles. The same goes for jet fighters and other military aircraft. The F/A-18's design was frozen for production in the late 70's. Normally you'd expect that a design for an expensive military vehicle like that to last for decades. The F-14's tenure as the Navy's main fighter was 32 years.

[MythSearcher]

How cheap is the Nemo actually? Because I wonder if it's so cheap, then why the GM III became the EFF's main fighting force during the First Neo Zeon War? It's very likely that the GM III is even cheaper than the Nemo, but I think there is also one factor (that also applied to the Rick Dias) that we must take into consideration: Axis has likely done something to disrupt Anaheim Electronics' production of the Nemo, or at least cause enough logistical problems that the EFF chose to go with the much more readily-available GM III

On that same train of thought, do you think the Rick Dias II/Schuzrum Dias and the Nemo III are feasible candidates to be the EFF's next mainline fighting MS? Feels like when it comes to this topic, the E.F.F. top brass are really conservative and would rather stick to the general layout of the GM, hence the Jegan.

I'd say the Nemo fell out of production because AEUG won.
EFF no longer divided, will obviously start building up a force suitable for fighting NZ.
GM III is also more poweful than Nemo, and it supposed to have already entered service(limitedly) during Dakar.
It make more sense to mass produce the more powerful unit that happens to be easier to make as it is just an upgrade like Kuruni said.

They did try to build some Nero, but those didn't go so well because of some other idiots started another civil war.
Upgrading the GM II to GM III is probably the quickest way they can muster a reasonable force in a short period.

It really seems as though the Federation is trying to cut costs wherever possible. That's probably why they insist on using either old units or upgrades of units, rather than try a higher quality new version. This can be seen with the repeated use of decades old equipment in the wars in the Second Universal Century.

It's not that the Earth Federation is trying to cut costs wherever possible... it's that they're a government that has a finite budget derived from tax revenue. The money has to come from SOMEWHERE. If you tax your constituents to the brink of ruination, you won't be in government for very long.

The Earth Federation Forces are a substantial military that has a lot of manpower and materiel. But like any other organ of government they have to justify their requested budget to the general assembly. If they're spending in an irresponsible manner, their request won't get approved or their budget might get cut. As in the real world, they go with a lowest bidder acquisitions process to get the most value for the tax money they're spending. A Mobile Suit is not a trivial investment. It's a big, complicated piece of military machinery with significant maintenance demands. It's a significant capital expenditure. Not the kind of thing you can use for a few years and then throw away for the latest model's tiny incremental improvements.

The pace of "new model" MS development in Gundam, especially the UC, is really unrealistic... so the disparity you're seeing here is more to do with the gap between that unrealistic pace of development and the Federation's realistic approach to procurement. This is exaggerated further by the existence of paramilitary groups that have seemingly unlimited funding from who knows where like the AEUG, Karaba, etc.

In the real world, military equipment is kept in service until it's used up or hopelessly obsolete. The M1 Abrams MBT that is the mainstay of the US's armored cavalry? The first ones entered service in 1980. That's a 40+ year old design that is kept modern with incremental upgrades and retrofits to existing vehicles. The same goes for jet fighters and other military aircraft. The F/A-18's design was frozen for production in the late 70's. Normally you'd expect that a design for an expensive military vehicle like that to last for decades. The F-14's tenure as the Navy's main fighter was 32 years.

One of the rationales I like to give is the advancement of Minovsky physics.
Since it is new and immature, it has lots of room for improvement, and things don't become stable until much later.
While it is still pretty hard to justify OYW's development speed, at least the mass-production models speed can be somehow justified as something like WWII were you get ongoing conflict(which is pretty much so if we look at 0079, 0083, 0087, 0088, all have pretty clear targets for at least 9 years). You get tons of variants and upgrades within a short period of about 7~8 years.
Both EFF and Zeon OYW equipment were still in use until at least 0096, they do try to use them until they are hopelessly obsolete. Okay, maybe not as long as something like the T-34, but something like the M4 only see US service for 15 years. P-80, the first jet fighter only served for 5 years. We still seeing a Zaku I sniper in 0096 in service is 17 years, 21 if you count its service time before the war(0075). GM Aqua from 0079 is similar, GM III might have been upgraded from GM II and that from GM is also utilising the frame as far and as long as possible.

AEUG didn't only get funding and a few equipment from AE(kinda like guinea pig/advertisement), most of their equipments are from write-offs from EFF. Karaba is also likely the best advertisement in UC, they got EFF into buying the Z+ series.

[Seto Kaiba]

One of the rationales I like to give is the advancement of Minovsky physics.

Honestly, I don't buy that rationale... at least not after the One Year War ended.

Mainly, I reject that rationale because the defining advancements of the 2nd Generation Mobile Suits that were just beginning to enter service at the time of the Gryps conflict had nothing to do with Minovsky physics. Their given hallmarks were the adoption of the linear seat and "all-sky" monitor, the movable frame structural design, and the adoption of gundarium gamma as a structural and armor material. The Rick Dias, of course, is supposed to be the first true 2nd Generation MS, which is part of why it was more expensive and ended up seeing less service than the more traditional and interoperable Nemo.

Applications of Minovsky physics aboard a Mobile Suit in the early Universal Century are confined to its onboard fusion reactor, the field motors in its joints, and the operation of beam weaponry... all of which are things that ought to be independently upgradeable without having to design a whole new MS.

The faster pace of development is more justifiable in the OYW. After all, both the Principality of Zeon and Earth Federation were effectively playing catch-up in different areas. Zeon was catching up to the Federation's better implementation of Minovsky physics in the form of field motors and beam weapons, and the Federation had to do quite a bit of rushed development to get their 1st Generation Mobile Suit out the door and onto the battlefield in the greatest of haste. But past that point, it's much less easy to justify since the technology has begun to mature and the groundwork for the 2nd Generation MS concept was already being laid. Go far enough and it simply devolves into nonsense with new models being rushed out to fill some villain-of-the-week formula without any rational explanation.

[Mafty]

Given how Gundam does try to be more "Realistic" in Sci-fi warfare, I'd sometimes wondered if the re-used EF equipment in late UC , is the writers way of adding some realism, while dodging the demand for new products. Indeed with the exception of the Gundams, the EFS is really only advanced ship and mass produced MS wise during the OYW or CCA.

As for the Funding it does actually vary. As has been stated before some of the movements have sponsors with very deep pockets, or are tied to Jupiter Empire, which funnels a lot of wealth through helium transport. Other times it seems to be a stretch that by Narrative, what's left of Neo Zeon can keep fielding so many new prototype MS.

[Seto Kaiba]

Given how Gundam does try to be more "Realistic" in Sci-fi warfare, I'd sometimes wondered if the re-used EF equipment in late UC , is the writers way of adding some realism, while dodging the demand for new products.

Maybe... though in titles like Unicorn it's pretty clearly just a scramble to get as many MSV designs onscreen as possible to sell gunpla.

Realistically, you'd expect to see a military vehicle as complex and expensive as a Mobile Suit remain in service for decades before a new model phased it out. Cost and ease of maintenance are naturally going to be major factors in the decision to adopt a model, as they were when the AEUG ultimately decided to pass on the more costly Rick Dias in favor of the cheaper, easier-to-maintain, and more traditional Nemo series despite the Rick Dias's virtues.

Sensible organizations like the Federation or AEUG can't afford to blow huge sums of money on having the latest and greatest MS if that difference in performance is not significant and necessary. That's why you see the Federation go through a nice, smooth, iterative development from the GM to GM II, III, Jegan, Heavygun, and Jamesgun, favoring all-purpose designs that build on what the previous model did right and then specializing with variants and optional equipment packages. The deal for why the AEUG ended up adopting the Nemo as its main MS instead of Quattro's baby Rick Dias... cost performance is king, and the Nemo was enough to rival the Marasai.

[yazi88]

Also the Nemo being a better and closer machine to the GM II as well as being a more general machine compared to the heavier Rick Dias. General MS performance compared with cheaper costs is the main reason why the Nemo continued long after the Rick Dias was gone.

The Nemo had quite a production run, given it served in both the Gryps and 1st Neo Zeon war. And a lot of units survived and were still in use with the Federation by the time of Unicorn. Although it was the ground forces which has much older units compared to the space forces especially being more spread out on Earth on various bases. Nemo is also a member of the GM linage too.

[MythSearcher]

Honestly, I don't buy that rationale... at least not after the One Year War ended.

Mainly, I reject that rationale because the defining advancements of the 2nd Generation Mobile Suits that were just beginning to enter service at the time of the Gryps conflict had nothing to do with Minovsky physics. Their given hallmarks were the adoption of the linear seat and "all-sky" monitor, the movable frame structural design, and the adoption of gundarium gamma as a structural and armor material. The Rick Dias, of course, is supposed to be the first true 2nd Generation MS, which is part of why it was more expensive and ended up seeing less service than the more traditional and interoperable Nemo.

Applications of Minovsky physics aboard a Mobile Suit in the early Universal Century are confined to its onboard fusion reactor, the field motors in its joints, and the operation of beam weaponry... all of which are things that ought to be independently upgradeable without having to design a whole new MS.

The faster pace of development is more justifiable in the OYW. After all, both the Principality of Zeon and Earth Federation were effectively playing catch-up in different areas. Zeon was catching up to the Federation's better implementation of Minovsky physics in the form of field motors and beam weapons, and the Federation had to do quite a bit of rushed development to get their 1st Generation Mobile Suit out the door and onto the battlefield in the greatest of haste. But past that point, it's much less easy to justify since the technology has begun to mature and the groundwork for the 2nd Generation MS concept was already being laid. Go far enough and it simply devolves into nonsense with new models being rushed out to fill some villain-of-the-week formula without any rational explanation.

The issue here is that the technology triggered a lot of developments around it. You get higher generator outputs, more powerful weapons, field motors, etc. and the higher strain they put on the frame meant they have to develop better material and better ways to handle the strain, etc. The linear seat and panoramic cockpits are adaption to space combat where you functionally have almost none before OYW.
Like WWI and WWII, things get adapted really fast and development is also really fast. Before 0070 there seems to be almost no reason to develop anything at all, but from 0070 onwards its basically 9 years of cold war, 1 year of intense war, 4 years of post war development, 3~4 years of civil war, 1 year of external war, 6 years of post war development where they finally get to start replacing pre-OYW ships seriously(all the other new ships aren't really EFSF plans but only got adopted after conflicts) with 2 conflicts they didn't foresee and got serious damage out of.
Once pass that, everything they have are used for decades. The Jegan survived at least from 0089 all the way to at least 0123, 34 years.(I don't remember if there's any left in Crossbone), the Salamis survived until 0153(with a beam shield and atmospheric flight upgrade) at least serving its 80+ year[Salamis entered service in early to mid 70's] and we still see Clops and Rai Cailum in 0153 amongst the EFSF fleet which served 60 years. I am not counting the Alexandria class Gauland because that one is not operated by EFSF.
MS wise we still get RGM-119 and 122 in 0153, so at least 30 years of service.

Thus looking at the service period of mid to late cold war machines might not be that good of a comparison, looking at vehicles during WWII and shortly after it(say, 5 years) makes more sense as a comparison because the world is in active war and/or rapid development then.

The P-80 was used for 5 years, the M26 10 years-ish, M4 15 years, M3 3~4 years-ish.

[Seto Kaiba]

The issue here is that the technology triggered a lot of developments around it. You get higher generator outputs, more powerful weapons, field motors, etc. and the higher strain they put on the frame meant they have to develop better material and better ways to handle the strain, etc. The linear seat and panoramic cockpits are adaption to space combat where you functionally have almost none before OYW.

Eh... while that's not wrong, I feel like it's kind of missing the point.

There's a difference between the pace at which advancements are being made and the actual significance of the advancements being made. What we see throughout the One Year War period is mainly lots of little incremental advancements and design tweaks with minimal, if any, actual performance implications. Instead of seeing loads and loads of different variants and new models with only tiny performance differences, we ought to be seeing a block upgrade program to apply these advancements uniformly across all units in service except in cases of very significant changes like the introduction of field motors and beam weapons in Zeon's forces.

Zeon's case, at least in the One Year War, can be excused as a result of corruption and infighting among the Zeon military's top brass paralleling the problems in Nazi procurement during the Second World War... but after that it really doesn't make ANY sense.

Thus looking at the service period of mid to late cold war machines might not be that good of a comparison, looking at vehicles during WWII and shortly after it(say, 5 years) makes more sense as a comparison because the world is in active war and/or rapid development then.

The P-80 was used for 5 years, the M26 10 years-ish, M4 15 years, M3 3~4 years-ish.

If we're looking at similar complexity we really ought to be looking at modern or under-development hardware... Second World War-era jets are practically balsawood toys powered by twisted-up rubber bands compared to how complex something like a MS or modern jet is.

[MythSearcher]

Eh... while that's not wrong, I feel like it's kind of missing the point.

There's a difference between the pace at which advancements are being made and the actual significance of the advancements being made. What we see throughout the One Year War period is mainly lots of little incremental advancements and design tweaks with minimal, if any, actual performance implications. Instead of seeing loads and loads of different variants and new models with only tiny performance differences, we ought to be seeing a block upgrade program to apply these advancements uniformly across all units in service except in cases of very significant changes like the introduction of field motors and beam weapons in Zeon's forces.

But isn't that what's going on?
Not looking at those non-mass-production units where they are basically infighting between contractors like F-16 vs F-17, YF-22 vs YF-23, etc., the actual mass production units of EFF are block upgrade programs or significant changes in some kind of major technological break through.
The GM line is basically adapting to all of these and we see a block standardisation to 79C after OYW, block upgrade to GM II and III, complete overhaul to Jegan, etc. Variants of the GM are more specialised versions and we do have a lot of those in WWII and some time post-WWII in tanks.
Z+ introduces something completely different, especially in its flight capability and extreme high altitude and low orbit combat capabilities.
Yes, we see tons of strange Titans' mass production suits are more numerous but the Galbaldy beta is basically a evaluation program of Zeon Galbaldy alpha and reusing whatever stuff they captured so not really a new unit, Hizack is implementing Zeon designs into EF line, Marasai is basically provided by AE for whatever reason they have to hide from and more of an upgraded Hizack with Gundarium armour, Barzam limited production is for evaluation as well.
So basically the Titans don't really have much mass-production units as well.

Zeon's case, at least in the One Year War, can be excused as a result of corruption and infighting among the Zeon military's top brass paralleling the problems in Nazi procurement during the Second World War... but after that it really doesn't make ANY sense.

But the EFF also got a lot of infighting, and that led to a major civil war and a major (albeit short) rebellion.
The reason given for EFF and Titans having so many units is that they are evaluating numerous Zeon units and doing a lot of testings all over the place, trying out some of those technologies in their own development and implementing them into their own mass production units. And then you get AE providing pretty much the same service which kinda doubles the number of testing machines. Furthermore AE got the best engineers from both sides after OYW so their machines often have some edge over EFF's own development while EFF(at least some big brass in it) still wanted to have their own capability to research and develop new units.(which eventually led to SNRI)

If we're looking at similar complexity we really ought to be looking at modern or under-development hardware... Second World War-era jets are practically balsawood toys powered by twisted-up rubber bands compared to how complex something like a MS or modern jet is.

In WWII those are modern state of art of their time.
They did not have computer assisted design tools, not even a calculator.(I recall a documentary saying the B-52 was still calculated by hand and slide rulers)

MS technology is pretty mundane to the regular UC engineer. The technology onboard are highly modulised and they already have complete computer automated design capability in OYW and can be loaded onto a single warship like the Chimaira, with 0090 designers able to custom design and build MS like they are module toys. (RoJR)
With the MA-05Ad technology and what we see in the anime clip of the Battlefield record 0081 game, they have automatic maintenance and repairs to a certain extend as well. Think of how fast we get smartphone models nowadays, they seem to have even more assistance in designing MS.

[Seto Kaiba]

But isn't that what's going on?

In a word? No.

In more than a word? No, we're seeing basically the exact opposite.

Not looking at those non-mass-production units where they are basically infighting between contractors like F-16 vs F-17, YF-22 vs YF-23, etc., the actual mass production units of EFF are block upgrade programs or significant changes in some kind of major technological break through.

... no, that's not what a block upgrade is.

Block upgrades are (relatively) minor specification changes made between production lots to incorporate various refinements and improvements to onboard systems. Those changes are not only incorporated into the new build units coming off the production line but are also incorporated into units in the field during routine maintenance overhauls. Block upgrades don't change the unit's variant letter or model number. Usually you'll find production block information listed after the variant letter/number. For instance, the current model Super Hornet's model, variant, and block designation would be F/A-18F-III for F/A-18 Variant F Block III.

What we're seeing is the opposite... where every tiny, incremental performance or hardware improvement is sold as a new variant or an entirely new mobile suit design. Even modular external equipment variations are wrongly presented as new variants when the underlying MS is hardware-identical to other, differently-designated models.

The GM line is basically adapting to all of these and we see a block standardisation to 79C after OYW, block upgrade to GM II and III, complete overhaul to Jegan, etc.

That's not a block, that's a variant.

The RGM-79C GM Type C was meant to consolidate and standardize the specification for the GM because it'd been heavily fragmented and destandardized by a mountain of non-standard variants and customizations.

But the EFF also got a lot of infighting, and that led to a major civil war and a major (albeit short) rebellion. [...]

That's a very different kind of infighting, because the Titans were a separate organizations from the EFF and had their own separate procurement process and requirements. Their stuff wasn't, for the most part, ending up with the regular EFF troops.

In WWII those are modern state of art of their time.
They did not have computer assisted design tools, not even a calculator.(I recall a documentary saying the B-52 was still calculated by hand and slide rulers)

Used properly, a slide rule basically IS a calculator... but again, we're talking about orders of magnitude difference in technology.

Think of how fast we get smartphone models nowadays, they seem to have even more assistance in designing MS.

... that speed is illusory. Like all consumer electronics, cars, etc., those products are in development and testing for several years before the general public is allowed to see even a mockup, never mind putting the product into actual production. And that's largely working with off-the-shelf parts being developed by someone else who's also spending years on each iterative improvement.

The time between the actual start of development for something like a new model car and when the public sees the design for the first time? Around five years with current virtualization technology. It's much longer when it's military technology, which has to be designed to take far more punishment, operate with far greater precision, etc.

[MythSearcher]

In a word? No.

In more than a word? No, we're seeing basically the exact opposite.

... no, that's not what a block upgrade is.

Block upgrades are (relatively) minor specification changes made between production lots to incorporate various refinements and improvements to onboard systems. Those changes are not only incorporated into the new build units coming off the production line but are also incorporated into units in the field during routine maintenance overhauls. Block upgrades don't change the unit's variant letter or model number. Usually you'll find production block information listed after the variant letter/number. For instance, the current model Super Hornet's model, variant, and block designation would be F/A-18F-III for F/A-18 Variant F Block III.

What we're seeing is the opposite... where every tiny, incremental performance or hardware improvement is sold as a new variant or an entirely new mobile suit design. Even modular external equipment variations are wrongly presented as new variants when the underlying MS is hardware-identical to other, differently-designated models.


That's not a block, that's a variant.

The RGM-79C GM Type C was meant to consolidate and standardize the specification for the GM because it'd been heavily fragmented and destandardized by a mountain of non-standard variants and customizations.

But isn't the 79C essentially bringing as many GM variants that aren't regional to the same standard and stop all of those different minor design changes?

What mass-production model in the EFF is an entirely new MS design? If you consider Titans as another branch then those from Titans surely does not count in your view?

The 79N is basically an elite unit and RGC-80 is essentially filling another role.(I don't think you have a problem with M1 Abrams and the Bradley, actually, isn't the M2 and M3 Bradley even a smaller change than the 79N vs the 79C?)

The GM II and III are also applied to all GM units as far as possible.

You get a lot of variants in OYW but very little afterwards, those limited variants are often never mass-produced and either just test units or simply local field modifications. Considering each combat region is basically still a multi-nation wide power, a little leniency can be given to them if they have to get their own variant or two.

Let's count the EFF mass production MS after OYW:(with AQUA GM used from 0079 all the way to 0096)
0080-83
Ball C(low of the high-low mix, fire support/IFV/attack heli), 79C(standard issue, MBT/fighter), 79N(elite, high of the high-low mix, MBT/fighter), RGC-83(howitzer/bomber)
0084-87
79R/179(block upgrade from 79C)
0087-90
86R(block upgrade from 79R), Nero(only 40 were ever presented to audiences), Barzam refined(low local production in Pezun only, likely using up whatever is left from the development)
0088-93
Z+A1/C1(atmospheric/space variants, fighter, elite, high of the high-low mix, likely filling the gap of 79N left after the upgrade to 79R), Z+C4(atmospheric escape/reentry regional variant fighter), Z+B(trainer, not really mass-produced), 79D(improvement of A1's atmospheric flight capabilities and performance, should be block upgrade, space variant for replacement of the C1 variant exist), 89(new model replacing 86R, served as high of the high-low mix replacing the Z+ for about 3 years)
0096
ReZEL(fighter, replacement of Z+)

That's pretty much it.
If we separate the tank and the fighter role machines, you really don't get that many variants/machines
We can actually ignore the Nero and Barzam, the only thing matching your description of tiny, incremental performance or hardware improvement sold as new variant are the Z+s.

I guess we first have to admit they may have a different numbering convention than the US.
Yes, modular designs are labelled as a new variant, but so does the Stryker?
M1126 ICV, M1127 RV, M1128 MGS, M1129 MC, ...until M1135 NBC RV are all considered variants and is basically just modular external equipment variations presented as new variants when the underlying Styker chassis is almost hardware-identical to other, differently-designated models?

That's a very different kind of infighting, because the Titans were a separate organizations from the EFF and had their own separate procurement process and requirements. Their stuff wasn't, for the most part, ending up with the regular EFF troops.

Titans is the result, the EFF has infighting since at least OYW where Revil is the largest figure of the pro-war fraction, you get other generals in the anti-war fraction.
After the war you still get same fractions(but kinda reversed in roles for whatever strange political reason)

Revil's treatment to the WB team as the 13th Independent force is also what led to the creation of Titans, because it is a precedent of having a private force under a general.

Also, the Titans isn't completely separate, they are still technically a part of EFF, just an elite counter-insurgency group. AEUG, on the other hand, before the official reintegration, is completely independent, it should be counted as an insurgent at its forming in all sense.(Hey, an OF-6 general writing off a bunch of ships and MS only to be used by unofficial outsiders against an official group of the military/government)

Used properly, a slide rule basically IS a calculator... but again, we're talking about orders of magnitude difference in technology.

Yes, but the time required to use a slide rule and a super computer in calculating aerodynamics is completely different.

... that speed is illusory. Like all consumer electronics, cars, etc., those products are in development and testing for several years before the general public is allowed to see even a mockup, never mind putting the product into actual production. And that's largely working with off-the-shelf parts being developed by someone else who's also spending years on each iterative improvement.

The time between the actual start of development for something like a new model car and when the public sees the design for the first time? Around five years with current virtualization technology. It's much longer when it's military technology, which has to be designed to take far more punishment, operate with far greater precision, etc.

So does the MS development.
MS-05 and 06 had a few years of development before OYW.
The GM was basically at least 2 years of development counting from Guncannon.
The GM III upgrade was testing since 0086 but only slowly being upgraded since 0089.
A lot of Titans and EFF models are development plans they captured from Zeon, like the Pezun projects that led to the Galbaldy beta from the Galbaldy alpha, which is in development(or finished development) 8 years prior.

They seem to be pumping out lots of models because they have many development facilities. Zeon itself has a bigger national power than the whole USA and EF is 30 times of it.(even if you only count military power, it is 10 times of it)

Also, MS isn't a single type of vehicle. Instead of say, a MBT or jet fighter, it should be more inline with "tracked vehicle" or "warplane", maybe even more. So it makes certain sense that you get MBT, IFV, howitzer or fighter, attacker, bomber, etc.

[Seto Kaiba]

But isn't the 79C essentially bringing as many GM variants that aren't regional to the same standard and stop all of those different minor design changes?

It's trying... but the amount of actual success it had is debatable at best.

The problem - or I guess you'd say failure of realism - here is that those minor design changes shouldn't each result in a new model or variant of Mobile Suit. What we should be seeing is these minor design improvements going into all newly-built MS's of that model and then retrofitted into older ones to bring them all up to the same standard of onboard systems and performance. That's how real world military vehicles are maintained and updated. You don't throw away dozens or hundreds of vehicles just because the manufacturer made some incremental enhancements to the design. You update the existing fleet in parallel with bringing in newly-built updated models.

For example, the only appreciable difference between the MS-06A Zaku II initial production type and MS-06C Zaku II early production type were design changes to its armor. Exterior armor plating was redesigned on the shoulders in anticipation of combat against enemy Mobile Suits, and radiation shielding was installed around the cockpit. It didn't change the actual design of the MS itself in any way. They're hardware-identical, but they're treated as two separate variants by official material with it even being said the MS-06A's were scrapped after the C-type entered production. If handled realistically, these should be the MS-06A Block 1 and MS-06A Block respectively. The same is broadly true of the MS-06F, which differed from the preceding C-type only in the removal of the anti-radiation measures, the installation of a slightly improved generator, an improved fire control system, and some improved shock absorption around the cockpit. All in all, relatively minor design changes while most of the MS remained exactly the same. It really ought to have been MS-06A Block 3. It's not until you get to the weird customizations like the MS-06FZ or MS-06F2 where you start getting design differences significant enough to be designated as an entirely different variant.

What mass-production model in the EFF is an entirely new MS design?

That's kinda my point... the Federation has a lot of cases where the same damn Mobile Suit is treated as being an entirely different variant based purely on incidental optional hardware, which is wildly incorrect by any rational standard.

The 79N is basically an elite unit and RGC-80 is essentially filling another role.(I don't think you have a problem with M1 Abrams and the Bradley, actually, isn't the M2 and M3 Bradley even a smaller change than the 79N vs the 79C?)

The US Army's M-number system is rather different from the US Navy/Tri-Service-inspired designation system that's used for Mobile Suits on both sides. Even though the M2 Bradley and M3 Bradley share a common chassis, they got two different M numbers because one is built up as an IFV while the other is built up as a cavalry recon tank. The M numbers are even more intolerant of variation than the Tri-Service system that Gundam's own designation systems are modeled on.

The closest Gundam ever gets to the M numbers is the League Militaire's designation system... though it does seem to imply that the original Victory Gundam is actually the fourth revision of the model 312 (LM312V04) and that the Victory 2 is the 21st revision of the model 314 (LM314V21).

The GM II and III are also applied to all GM units as far as possible.

If I were going to pick a pair of GMs that actually meet the level of similarity for block revision it'd be the RGM-79 Early Type and RGM-79 production type... the [E] and [A] respectively. Designated correctly, the [E] is their trial production lot then it should be RGM-79A Block 0 and the actual production type should be RGM-79A Block 1. I'm not sure I'd say the revisions in the GM II and GM III are minor enough to be block updates, but they're definitely close enough that all three should still be considered RGM-79 variants instead of being issued separate models as they were (the GM II being RMS-179 and the GM III being RGM-86).

Also, MS isn't a single type of vehicle. Instead of say, a MBT or jet fighter, it should be more inline with "tracked vehicle" or "warplane", maybe even more. So it makes certain sense that you get MBT, IFV, howitzer or fighter, attacker, bomber, etc.

Technically, it is... that's why it's treated as a new category of vehicle, and why Mobile Armors are similarly given their own separate category. Mobile Suits may be made for different purposes, but fundamentally they belong to one single category.