Amuro and the Zeta Series

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Kuruni
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Re: Amuro and the Zeta Series

Post by Kuruni » Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:31 am

Just here to drop a note that Moon Gundam manga featuring a fully transformable prototype of Re-GZ called Re-GZID. The ID stand for "IDeal", because Amuro think it's the ideal form of the Re-GZ.
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Re: Amuro and the Zeta Series

Post by MythSearcher » Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:57 am

Underrated GM Custom wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:15 pm

For the Beam Smartgun is it mentioned anywhere which units are compatible with it? I'd assume Zeta derivatives with equal or superior reactor power could do so but I'm curious if there are any special connectors that are required on the MS in order to bring out its full potential.
Well, I assume they are interchangeable like other MS of the same standard(by AE), and the Z+ C1 beam smart gun doesn't have an extra connector like S's beam smart gun, it is basically just connected to its shield. The Hummingbird addon simply carried something looking suspiciously like S's BSG without additional connections...
Do you happen to know what happened to the White Unicorn Zeta? It was still in one piece at the end of Gundam Evolve 9 so I've been wondering about its whereabouts.
No, but since Amuro is working for Karaba at the time, I would say EFSF do not own that unit and since Karaba is anti-EF, they won't simply hand over the unit to EFSF.
At first I thought you were joking but then I saw the image of the Gundam sized AK-47, hahah. Was the Re-GZ custom ever actually built or is it a drawing board only design? If it was built I wonder if it was immediately decommissioned or conveniently lost and perhaps reacquired by someone like the Birnam group.
Nobody knows, but I'd like to say similarly ambiguous units that are said to have stopped development(e.g. ZII) have been used in later manga(ZII was used in Walpurgis) so nobody knows.

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Re: Amuro and the Zeta Series

Post by Seto Kaiba » Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:34 am

MythSearcher wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:44 pm
The Z+ is not your typical Gundam franchise downgrade mass production unit. It is an upgrade unit like real life mass production where the hiccups and issues in the prototype is solved and with more units produced, you get a cost down(relatively)
Eh... yes and no. The Zeta Plus series was initially a downgraded/economized version of the MSZ-006 that was an attempt to make it economical as a limited-production unit for use by Karaba by cutting down its capabilities and focusing on giving it better aerodynamics for planetside-only use.

It wasn't until the Federation obtained the Zeta Plus and essentially reversed the cost-cutting measures Anaheim's engineers had made on Karaba's request that they ended up with something that rivaled or exceeded the original Zeta Gundam prototype unit.

Most of the two dozen or so Zeta Plus units produced are actually downgrade units as per Gundam's typical approach. It's only the three or so Zeta Plus C1's made for the Federation Forces that are nominally upgrades in comparison to Kamille's Zeta Gundam.




Underrated GM Custom wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:15 pm
Do you happen to know what happened to the White Unicorn Zeta? It was still in one piece at the end of Gundam Evolve 9 so I've been wondering about its whereabouts.
Nothing is said about its fate. Given what happened to many of the Zeta's, it may have been either scrapped or returned to Anaheim to be refurbished into a test aircraft like how one of the Zeta Plus C1's was repurposed as a prototype for the Re-GZ.


Underrated GM Custom wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:15 pm
At first I thought you were joking but then I saw the image of the Gundam sized AK-47, hahah. Was the Re-GZ custom ever actually built or is it a drawing board only design? If it was built I wonder if it was immediately decommissioned or conveniently lost and perhaps reacquired by someone like the Birnam group.
Given that the Re-GZ never got past the prototype phase, it's possible that the Re-GZ Custom may have been the starting point for the Re-GZID.
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Re: Amuro and the Zeta Series

Post by MythSearcher » Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:08 am

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:34 am
Eh... yes and no. The Zeta Plus series was initially a downgraded/economized version of the MSZ-006 that was an attempt to make it economical as a limited-production unit for use by Karaba by cutting down its capabilities and focusing on giving it better aerodynamics for planetside-only use.

It wasn't until the Federation obtained the Zeta Plus and essentially reversed the cost-cutting measures Anaheim's engineers had made on Karaba's request that they ended up with something that rivaled or exceeded the original Zeta Gundam prototype unit.

Most of the two dozen or so Zeta Plus units produced are actually downgrade units as per Gundam's typical approach. It's only the three or so Zeta Plus C1's made for the Federation Forces that are nominally upgrades in comparison to Kamille's Zeta Gundam.
I don't think Z+ A1 is necessarily a downgrade.
Biosensor aside(it is a very unstable system to begin with, no one with any military sense will want to have a potential bomb on their high end, expensive mass produce unit.) The A1 has an upgraded generator, improved flight capabilities within the atmosphere by way of the variable wings(F-14 mentality, anyone?), higher power thigh beam cannons and beam sabres, better sensor range.
Granted, it has less total thrust and lacked the space capabilities, but that is kinda like saying the Spitfire Mk.Vc is a downgrade from the Mk-V because it installed sand filters that reduced its top speed and fuel efficiency for it to perform well in the desert area.

The Zeta has an over complicated transformation system, just by taking care of that is an upgrade in my view. The A1 even improved flight performance and efficiency within the atmosphere, with some upgrades in basic systems. So I wouldn't say it is the typical downgrade mass production units like GM to Gundam.

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Re: Amuro and the Zeta Series

Post by Underrated GM Custom » Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:48 pm

MythSearcher wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:57 am
No, but since Amuro is working for Karaba at the time, I would say EFSF do not own that unit and since Karaba is anti-EF, they won't simply hand over the unit to EFSF.
Interesting, I had always thought of Karaba as an anti-Titans group vice an anti-EF. Do you have any information on what happens to them after the Gryps Conflict since AEUG tends to meld back into the Federation/Londo Bell. I'm curious where that leaves Karaba and Hayato.
Nobody knows, but I'd like to say similarly ambiguous units that are said to have stopped development(e.g. ZII) have been used in later manga(ZII was used in Walpurgis) so nobody knows.
True, I heard about the ZII appearing again continuing the Travis Kirkland / Vincent Gleissner storyline. Perhaps we'll see the White Unicorn Zeta pop up in Gundam Ace or another animated short in the future.

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Re: Amuro and the Zeta Series

Post by Chris » Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:09 pm

Underrated GM Custom wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:48 pm
Interesting, I had always thought of Karaba as an anti-Titans group vice an anti-EF. Do you have any information on what happens to them after the Gryps Conflict since AEUG tends to meld back into the Federation/Londo Bell. I'm curious where that leaves Karaba and Hayato.
In Hayato's case, it doesn't leave him anywhere since he was killed during the First Neo Zeon War, before the AEUG (and presumably Karaba) were reintegrated back into the EFF.

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Re: Amuro and the Zeta Series

Post by Underrated GM Custom » Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:53 pm

Completely forgot about that, thanks for the reminder.

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Re: Amuro and the Zeta Series

Post by MythSearcher » Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:04 pm

Underrated GM Custom wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:48 pm
Interesting, I had always thought of Karaba as an anti-Titans group vice an anti-EF. Do you have any information on what happens to them after the Gryps Conflict since AEUG tends to meld back into the Federation/Londo Bell. I'm curious where that leaves Karaba and Hayato.
They are two separate organisations, and we never heard about them after the 1st Neo Zeon conflict, where they kinda helped out Bright in fighting Axis/NZ.
They are like a resistance group fighting oppression, and EF isn't really their cup of tea. It makes little sense to fight the Titans on Earth anyway, Titans is supposed to be an elite group from Earth picking out spacenoids who are a threat to EF.
True, I heard about the ZII appearing again continuing the Travis Kirkland / Vincent Gleissner storyline. Perhaps we'll see the White Unicorn Zeta pop up in Gundam Ace or another animated short in the future.
Or they can simply say that it was painted in another colour for someone else. Oh well, from track record, that is highly unlikely, they just love to introduce new units and add to the ever increasing numbers. I won't be surprised if we suddenly get 73 more Zetas in the future.(Yeah, I will be surprised if there are 74. Poor Japanese pun there.)

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Re: Amuro and the Zeta Series

Post by Underrated GM Custom » Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:40 pm

MythSearcher wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:04 pm
They are like a resistance group fighting oppression, and EF isn't really their cup of tea. It makes little sense to fight the Titans on Earth anyway, Titans is supposed to be an elite group from Earth picking out spacenoids who are a threat to EF.
True but we do see Titans on earth, even if Jerid blasts a hole through one of their Asshimars. I always saw Karaba as essentially the earth version of AEUG but I realize when you brought that up I never knew their full story. So when AEUG melds into EF/Londo Bell does Karaba fizzle out and disappear?
(Yeah, I will be surprised if there are 74. Poor Japanese pun there.)
Hah, Nanashi as in 'no-name'?

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Re: Amuro and the Zeta Series

Post by MythSearcher » Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:11 am

Underrated GM Custom wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:40 pm

True but we do see Titans on earth, even if Jerid blasts a hole through one of their Asshimars. I always saw Karaba as essentially the earth version of AEUG but I realize when you brought that up I never knew their full story. So when AEUG melds into EF/Londo Bell does Karaba fizzle out and disappear?
No idea, they don't have anything much to say about this.
Hah, Nanashi as in 'no-name'?
Nah, I go for the simpler form Nashi, meaning "none".

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Re: Amuro and the Zeta Series

Post by False Prophet » Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:12 am

According to this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7NvccyHaHc) and a few other related ones from the same channel, the Federation government was stingy to Londo Bell because they worried the organization would become too powerful like the Titans. Furthermore, it seems like in the Beltorchika's Children novel, Amuro did asked Bright to request either the Zeta Gundam or Hyaku Shiki to be transferred to Londo Bell, but Bright revealed that the Federation was hesitated to pull any Gundam-type units out of storage because of how powerful technologically and symbolically they were.

That said, I wonder if there was a lot of conflicts between two schools of thought within Anaheim: The first want to mass-produce the Zeta Gundam by all cost and thus created the Re-GZ, while the second saw the Methuss as the real model for mass-production and thus created the ZII and ReZEL? It feels like the first school of thought died with the Re-GZ.

And thirdly, is Moon Gundam considered in the same continuity as CCA? Because where are all the Jeddah, Theta Plus and Rick Djieh Londo Bell used to have in UC 0091?
Last edited by False Prophet on Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Amuro and the Zeta Series

Post by False Prophet » Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:14 am

Also, if anyone want to talk about successful mass production of a Gundam, what about the F91? It really shows how well designed that machine is that the mass-production version could still go toe-to-toe with Jupiter MS decades later.

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Re: Amuro and the Zeta Series

Post by Underrated GM Custom » Fri Jun 25, 2021 11:58 am

That's an excellent point, it makes sense the Federation would deliberately underfund Londo Bell in order to avoid another Titans. I don't recall Amuro requesting Zeta / Hyaku Shiki in Beltorchika's children but that may have been in the Hi-Streamer novel. It's very interesting though since if we go by that statement it seems to imply that cutting edge prototypes from 0087 like Zeta and Hyaku Shiki are still considered very powerful in 0091-93. Which isn't too surprising considering the Delta Plus is essentially a modernized Hyaku Shiki used in 0096.

When it comes to Anaheim they are notorious for having different competing design teams. When it comes to Zeta successors there is a push to mass produce / make it cost effective as you mentioned that results in the Z+, Zeta MP, and Re-GZ. Then there's the successors where there are different teams working on the ZZ, ZII and the S Gundam. The ReZel taking the cheaper Methuss frame but using all the lessons learned from the Zeta series appears to be the big winner here when it comes to cost/performance and mass production.

For Moon's continuity, it's got the same writer as Unicorn and it's only a matter of time before it's animated.
I'm a big fan of the Dijeh lineage and I'm looking forward to seeing the Rick Dijeh in the future. Whether it's CCA continuity or Beltorchika's Children continuity is a little murky. As for the Jeddah, it was a prototype that was refined into the Jegan, so we don't see that one anymore.

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