Practicality of Physical Melee Weapons in Gundam

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Practicality of Physical Melee Weapons in Gundam

Good morning everyone,

I decided to start reading Gundam Wing's Glory of the Losers, after finishing a rewatch of the TV show and Movie this past month. I haven't gotten very far yet, but I was surprised by the number of add-on kits we see on the Gundams. One in particular caught my eye, the Shenlong with the Liaoya armament. It's essentially just Shenlong with a giant aesthetic sword mounted on it's arm-shield. The large sword can be thrown and has a cable attachment to be reeled back in.

It's a beautiful design but it got me thinking, is this practical? When it comes to giant robots many things are impractical, in this instance the design and use of the weapon just seemed odd to me. In a universe with highly destructive beam or superheated melee weapons, what is the point of a large metal sword you throw at people.

Now, I'm not opposed to gratuitous over-the-top destruction. Gundam Wing does have rocket propelled buster shields, guns that blow up colonies, and the premier method of execution is shooting someone after they've been pushed out of a plane. Can't beat it! But for some reason the idea of throwing an heavy sword while you already have a deadly beam weapon and extendable dragon claw seemed a bit off to me.

To that end below is a list of Mobile Suits from different series who tend to use physical melee weapons. When I say physical I am referring to a weapon that is neither a beam weapon nor superheated weapon like a heat hawk. I've also included a brief commentary on how useful they appear to be in their setting. If you'd like to add on to the list or offer additional information for the use of physical weapons please do so in the comments below. Thank you kindly!

Gundam Wing - Glory of the Losers

Shenlong Liaoya Armament
A large sword with retractable cable used in melee or throwing attacks. While a reusable throwing weapon is handy I have to wonder if there are other weapons that could fulfill this role better than a giant sword.

Tallgeese - Lance
In the duel between Tallgeese and Heavy Arms we see Tallgeese using a lance. If it's just a standard lance then it seems somewhat pointless given the impact resistance of Gundanium. I may have missed it, but perhaps this is a heat lance like we see on the G-Line Assault Armor.

UC Gundam

Aquatic Mobile Suits
Many Zeon aquatic mobile suits have an Iron Nail weapon that appears very good at destroying enemies. Given the high weight of Zeon aquatic MS I'm sure it drives home quite a bit of impact. Given that beam weapons tend to be less effective in water, due to water being an amazing heat capacitor I would say these are very practical.

Sturm Galluss
Certainly one of my favorite scenes in Unicorn. We see a Sturm Galluss roll onto the Nahel Argama's catapult and use it's knuckle shields to great effect. I'm not sure I'd call this weapon choice practical but it was certainly very entertaining to watch. The Arm shield in particular appeared to be very useful, even against beam weapons.

Honorable Mention: Rick Dom II - Giant Heat Sword
While this is a heat weapon, every time I've seen this appear in a video game I'm always struck by how comically large the sword is in relation to the Mobile Suit. Not as large as Red Astray's sword but still.

Gundam SEED

Strike Gundam - Armored Schneider Knives
The Strike Gundam comes equipped with some small combat knives stored in it's hips. In this universe Gundam's operate off of limited battery power and must always be mindful of energy consumption on both their beam weapons and phase shift armor. As a result physical weapons are very practical.

It's been a while but I seem to recall they were effective as well and caused a scar during one of the fights between Strike & Duel Gundam. I suppose that brings up a good question, was the armored schneider able to bypass Phase Shift because it was used by a suit with Phase Shift?

Gundam 00

Exia
While Exia does carry beam sabers, they appear to have a far more limited operational time than we see in UC. Thus Exia has GN blades that are extremely effective, considering in this universe the enemies they are fighting have almost-primitive MS compared to the Gundam's when they first appear. A suit that mixes physical weapons for long term fighting and beam sabers as a backup is extremely practical in my opinion.

Then there's GN particles that adds some techno-magic to make them better at cutting. Lastly, there are some plot reasons why a physical GN weapon is more effective at dealing with a units that have a GN Force Field.

00 Gundam
I actually greatly prefer the initial design which uses the GN Sword II. A large sword with a beam carbine that shoots down the blade always seemed more practical to me than dealing with the rotating mechanism we see on Exia's blade. (GN Sword II does transform between modes, but I liked the original premise.) Whether these swords are practical is hard to tell. 00 certainly has more power/GN particles to go around and potentially could use a beam saber at all times. Then again they may have other uses for those particles, especially since GN particles are also appear to be a source of propulsion.

G Gundam

Every Gundam and weapon is both practical and impractical at the same time and I wouldn't change a thing about it. Well, maybe some more screentime with Nether Gundam.
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Re: Practicality of Physical Melee Weapons in Gundam

Duel already got a hole from a glancing shot of Strike's beam rifle. Otherwise there is no way the knives could have penetrate PS armour.

Another advantage of physical weapons in CE is that they can sometimes go through shields, if the impact is strong enough and the shield is weak enough. Freedom's shield was made from laminated material, good for stopping beams, not so good for stopping giant blades or explosive darts.

Now I might be mistaken, but wasn't one of the advantage of a solid GN-infused blade that it can go through GN fields? Atleast early on a a way to eliminate traitors that got their hands on a GN drive.
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Re: Practicality of Physical Melee Weapons in Gundam

Ah I had forgotten Duel already had a hole in it's armor. If knives have no effect on PS I suppose that makes the Strike IWSP very poor against Phase Shift since it's smaller antiship swords don't have beam emitters as I recall.

I didn't realize Freedom's shield had laminated armor like the Archangel, makes perfect sense. I also like choice since beams became very common in that show that they developed shields specifically for anti-beam defense but then have a weakness to physical weapons.

Correct on the GN-blades, I mentioned it as "plot reasons" in the original post but I suppose there's no point worrying about spoilers when the show is over a decade old. Time sure flies doesn't it.
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Re: Practicality of Physical Melee Weapons in Gundam

Double post, hit the quote button instead of the edit button my mistake.
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Re: Practicality of Physical Melee Weapons in Gundam

Underrated GM Custom wrote: Sat May 22, 2021 10:47 am ...
Yeah... 00 is a 14 years old show now. and somehow subconsciously I still think of it as "new".

The IWSP still has the boomerang if it needs to go through PS armor, just hold it like you would hold a dagger.
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Re: Practicality of Physical Melee Weapons in Gundam

Also the aptly named Sword Calamity from Astray has a Schwert Gewehr anti ship sword (which is actually used in the Astray shorts). Likewise the GINN main mass produced unit utilizes a metal Sword, and there is ultimately the Katana that Lowe Guele handmakes for his Red Astray.
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Re: Practicality of Physical Melee Weapons in Gundam

Underrated GM Custom wrote: Sat May 22, 2021 10:20 am It's a beautiful design but it got me thinking, is this practical? When it comes to giant robots many things are impractical, in this instance the design and use of the weapon just seemed odd to me. In a universe with highly destructive beam or superheated melee weapons, what is the point of a large metal sword you throw at people.
Force equals mass times acceleration? Get a big, heavy object moving fast enough and it'll hit just as hard as a much smaller bullet moving faster.


Underrated GM Custom wrote: Sat May 22, 2021 10:20 am To that end below is a list of Mobile Suits from different series who tend to use physical melee weapons. When I say physical I am referring to a weapon that is neither a beam weapon nor superheated weapon like a heat hawk.
Mind you, when you see "conventional" physical melee weapons in mecha anime there's usually some kind of high tech BS going on that renders them effective against whatever super-alloy or super-composite armor is available in-setting.


Underrated GM Custom wrote: Sat May 22, 2021 10:20 am Shenlong Liaoya Armament
A large sword with retractable cable used in melee or throwing attacks. While a reusable throwing weapon is handy I have to wonder if there are other weapons that could fulfill this role better than a giant sword.

Tallgeese - Lance
In the duel between Tallgeese and Heavy Arms we see Tallgeese using a lance. If it's just a standard lance then it seems somewhat pointless given the impact resistance of Gundanium. I may have missed it, but perhaps this is a heat lance like we see on the G-Line Assault Armor.
So, I was unable to find anything with respect to the Shenlong's liuyedao... but the Tallgeese's lance is using a heat blade similar to the UC Zeon heat weapons.


Underrated GM Custom wrote: Sat May 22, 2021 10:20 am Aquatic Mobile Suits
Many Zeon aquatic mobile suits have an Iron Nail weapon that appears very good at destroying enemies. Given the high weight of Zeon aquatic MS I'm sure it drives home quite a bit of impact. Given that beam weapons tend to be less effective in water, due to water being an amazing heat capacitor I would say these are very practical.

Sturm Galluss
Certainly one of my favorite scenes in Unicorn. We see a Sturm Galluss roll onto the Nahel Argama's catapult and use it's knuckle shields to great effect. I'm not sure I'd call this weapon choice practical but it was certainly very entertaining to watch. The Arm shield in particular appeared to be very useful, even against beam weapons.

Honorable Mention: Rick Dom II - Giant Heat Sword
While this is a heat weapon, every time I've seen this appear in a video game I'm always struck by how comically large the sword is in relation to the Mobile Suit. Not as large as Red Astray's sword but still.
The Iron Nail manipulators that Zeon's amphibious mobile suits use one of the few examples of a strictly physical weapon like you were referring to... though they're more like a weaponized version of a hydraulic cutter using a set of cemented carbide blade-fingers than a sword or knife and they're noted to be driven by overpowered-for-their-size actuators specifically for the cutting effect.


Underrated GM Custom wrote: Sat May 22, 2021 10:20 amGundam SEED

Strike Gundam - Armored Schneider Knives
The Strike Gundam comes equipped with some small combat knives stored in it's hips. In this universe Gundam's operate off of limited battery power and must always be mindful of energy consumption on both their beam weapons and phase shift armor. As a result physical weapons are very practical.

It's been a while but I seem to recall they were effective as well and caused a scar during one of the fights between Strike & Duel Gundam. I suppose that brings up a good question, was the armored schneider able to bypass Phase Shift because it was used by a suit with Phase Shift?
The Armor Schneider knives the Strike Gundam came equipped with are high frequency blades, so their cutting power isn't strictly down to the material strength of the blade. It was intended for use against conventional armor, not phase shift armor. The Armor Schneiders are noted to have a modest onboard power supply so that operating them doesn't drain the MS's battery.



Underrated GM Custom wrote: Sat May 22, 2021 10:20 amGundam 00

Exia
While Exia does carry beam sabers, they appear to have a far more limited operational time than we see in UC. Thus Exia has GN blades that are extremely effective, considering in this universe the enemies they are fighting have almost-primitive MS compared to the Gundam's when they first appear. A suit that mixes physical weapons for long term fighting and beam sabers as a backup is extremely practical in my opinion.

Then there's GN particles that adds some techno-magic to make them better at cutting. Lastly, there are some plot reasons why a physical GN weapon is more effective at dealing with a units that have a GN Force Field.
GN Blades are, for all intents and purposes, a GN Particle-driven version of heat weapons. Of course, the Gundam designs were intended to basically be swaggering semi-invincible super-soldiers so they could afford to engage in a far showier set of combat styles than would ordinarily be practical. (The greater particle density in the GN Sword also apparently let it pierce GN fields, which made it an effective anti-Gundam weapon.)

The knives and such used by the Enact, Flag, and Tieren are high frequency blades.

Underrated GM Custom wrote: Sat May 22, 2021 10:20 am G Gundam

Every Gundam and weapon is both practical and impractical at the same time and I wouldn't change a thing about it. Well, maybe some more screentime with Nether Gundam.
Make no mistake, Mobile Fighter G Gundam's mechanical designs are a very deliberate effort to put style over substance and turn war into entertainment... like the Mortar Headds in Five Star Stories, but with way more racist cliches.
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Re: Practicality of Physical Melee Weapons in Gundam

Seto Kaiba wrote: Sat May 22, 2021 6:18 pm Force equals mass times acceleration? Get a big, heavy object moving fast enough and it'll hit just as hard as a much smaller bullet moving faster.

Certainly! But if F=MA is the best reason we got for the Liaoya Dao then I think the Gundam Hammer becomes the more practical weapon :D
So, I was unable to find anything with respect to the Shenlong's liuyedao... but the Tallgeese's lance is using a heat blade similar to the UC Zeon heat weapons.
I was hoping that was the case, I'm a big fan of heat lancers. I was hoping the manga would make it clear visually, especially when it comes to the Antarctic duel. There is one panel where we see Heavy Arms nimbly dodge at the last minute before the Tallgeese lance strikes the ground/ice. There's quite a bit of dust up afterwards but to me it looked more like an effect from the Tallgeese super verniers instead of effects from the heat weapon.

It's been a while since I've seen F91, but are the Shot Lancers a heat weapon or just a standard physical weapon with machine guns built into them?
The Iron Nail manipulators that Zeon's amphibious mobile suits use one of the few examples of a strictly physical weapon like you were referring to... though they're more like a weaponized version of a hydraulic cutter using a set of cemented carbide blade-fingers than a sword or knife and they're noted to be driven by overpowered-for-their-size actuators specifically for the cutting effect.
Oh interesting, I didn't know about the oversized actuators. They make a lot of sense as hydraulic cutters, although I don't recall any scenes off-hand where we see them clamp down. The most iconic scene for me of course is see Char's Z'Gok pierce through a GM's torso, but that's not a cutting/clamping motion.

On a related note. There are several mobile suits in Zeta Gundam that have claws and are most commonly used in their mobile armor mode. Do you know if they operate on a similar principles as Zeon's Iron Nail?

Zeta Suits:
Gabthley
Hambrabi
Messala
Baund Doc
Byarlant
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Re: Practicality of Physical Melee Weapons in Gundam

The Shot Lancer darts are just spikes of metal fired at high velocity via electromagnetic acceleration. The internal logic behind them is that the projectile is less likely to cause a catastrophic kaboon when hitting an enemy MS than a beam weapon would, seeing how the Crossbone Vanguard suits were designed to fight in and around colonies.

Oh, and since it hasn't been raised yet, IBO is an example of a series that was written around physical melee weapons being the most effective option, with nanolaminate armor providing more or less complete protection against beam weapons and also providing resistance against solid projectiles and explosives. Since the only ranged weapons strong enough to guarantee a kill on a Mobile Suit in one shot are the banned Dainsleifs (and using them without the specialized ammunition is a legal grey area) you end up with a setting where handheld axes, maces and blades in various flavors are the order of the day.
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Re: Practicality of Physical Melee Weapons in Gundam

Arsarcana wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 5:44 pm The Shot Lancer darts are just spikes of metal fired at high velocity via electromagnetic acceleration. The internal logic behind them is that the projectile is less likely to cause a catastrophic kaboon when hitting an enemy MS than a beam weapon would, seeing how the Crossbone Vanguard suits were designed to fight in and around colonies.
Oh interesting, I had always thought they were developed as a counter-measure to beam shields. So I suppose it's something like a railgun lance? Ah I may have misunderstood, is it firing the lance or firing spikes/bullets out of the side of the lance? I have a vague recollection of the Vigna-Ghina firing it's actual lance from Gundam Vs Gundam but that may be a one off weapon. I'll have to rewatch F91 at some point, it's been a long time.

Great point on IBO. I was actually a big fan of the nano-laminate armor. It provides an alternate reason as to why these giant machines would be predisposed to melee combat (and point blank shots) as opposed to particles that interfere with EM Waves & non-shielded electronics.
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Re: Practicality of Physical Melee Weapons in Gundam

Underrated GM Custom wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 5:32 pm Oh interesting, I had always thought they were developed as a counter-measure to beam shields. So I suppose it's something like a railgun lance? Ah I may have misunderstood, is it firing the lance or firing spikes/bullets out of the side of the lance?
Shot Lancers fire the actual lance and hence can only be used once before needing to reload; I don't recall if we ever see them retrieving the spears mid-combat to fire a second shot. The weapon is also designed to have a melee-range option where the spearhead and part of the mechanism are accelerated forward a few meters, adding a bit more force to a melee attack without actually launching the spear as a projectile. The barrels on the sides are heavy machine guns.

And it's been a good while since I've watched F91 myself, I should do that again at some point.
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Re: Practicality of Physical Melee Weapons in Gundam

Underrated GM Custom wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 5:32 pmGreat point on IBO. I was actually a big fan of the nano-laminate armor. It provides an alternate reason as to why these giant machines would be predisposed to melee combat (and point blank shots) as opposed to particles that interfere with EM Waves & non-shielded electronics.
IBO has those too. Ahab Waves pretty much kill electronics that are not shielded with Martian Half Metal. That is also why MS are banned from cities and population centers by law, since their Ahab Reactors will kill all the nearby electronics.
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Re: Practicality of Physical Melee Weapons in Gundam

Arsarcana wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 7:08 pm Shot Lancers fire the actual lance and hence can only be used once before needing to reload; I don't recall if we ever see them retrieving the spears mid-combat to fire a second shot.
Oh good, it's great to hear I wasn't misremembering things. F91 is a very beautiful show with some unique concepts. Would have loved to see what it would have been as a full series vice a movie.
SonicSP wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 9:37 am IBO has those too. Ahab Waves pretty much kill electronics that are not shielded with Martian Half Metal. That is also why MS are banned from cities and population centers by law, since their Ahab Reactors will kill all the nearby electronics.
Wow, I'm surprised I missed that when watching the show. I'm guessing it may have been covered at the start of the show or perhaps in supplemental material?
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Re: Practicality of Physical Melee Weapons in Gundam

IBO is much more consistent about that than UC Gundam was with its Minovsky particles.
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Re: Practicality of Physical Melee Weapons in Gundam

Underrated GM Custom wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 5:04 pmWow, I'm surprised I missed that when watching the show. I'm guessing it may have been covered at the start of the show or perhaps in supplemental material?
The Ahab Waves killing electronics part is covered near the end of Season 1 when fighting was about to happen in Edmonton. The Ahab Reactor ban in cities were mentioned and we also saw electronics like traffic lights and billboards literally explode when Graze Ein walks by them. In Episode 31, an SAU scout plane crashed because it flew into an Ahab Wave area of Arbrau mobile suits, and this escalated a border dispute between the two into open conflict.

Like many other series, the jamming interruptions are bypassed by using laser or light communication systems. In IBO it is called LCS (Laser Communication System) and the term is used many times in the show. One of the later Season 2 episodes also make mention of using drones to facilitate the system.

The specifics of how electronics are shielded are not mentioned until Episode 35. There was a scene in the desert (involving McGillis IIRC) where they discussed that Martian Half Metal was a super important resource because they are used in Ahab Wave shielding. This was also mentioned as the reason why Hashmal/Gundam Flauros wasn't detected for centuries, because they were buried under a huge amount of them. 

Sidenote, Half Metal mining rights was also the issue Kudelia wanted to negotiate with the Abrau bloc at the start of the series. Gjallahorn was not a fan of this.

As for stuff that's only covered in supplementary materials, the big one in IBO would be Ahab Particles. They are basically the thing created by Ahab Reactors, exist for a billionth of a second before decaying into Ahab Waves. They reduce G-Forces in MS, and is the source of true artificial gravity we see in the show due to them emitting gravitons, the (in real life, hypothetical) elementary particles that mediate gravity.

They are also the reason why Nanolaminate Armor (which is literally just paint on the surface and not actual armor) are so strong since the Ahab Particles' gravity field pull them in molecularly in a specific way to create a strong defensive effect.

This is also why despite just being a coat of paint, you cannot use them on things like mobile workers cos they do not have Ahab Reactors. Conversely, the main reason why Nanolaminate Armor on ships are so strong is because the ships have larger Ahab Reactors with higher output. I also presume the Gundams have better ones too due to the high outputs from their Twin Ahab Reactors.
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Re: Practicality of Physical Melee Weapons in Gundam

SonicSP wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 11:08 pm The Ahab Waves killing electronics part is covered near the end of Season 1 when fighting was about to happen in Edmonton. The Ahab Reactor ban in cities were mentioned and we also saw electronics like traffic lights and billboards literally explode when Graze Ein walks by them.
Ah! I remember that scene now. Thanks for the explanation.
This is also why despite just being a coat of paint, you cannot use them on things like mobile workers cos they do not have Ahab Reactors. Conversely, the main reason why Nanolaminate Armor on ships are so strong is because the ships have larger Ahab Reactors with higher output. I also presume the Gundams have better ones too due to the high outputs from their Twin Ahab Reactors.
That's very interesting, so essentially Ahab waves have gravitational forces that are forcing the subatmoic structures to behave in a certain way. So instead of making a better metal your reactor is constantly applying a force to resist deformation of that material. Very fascinating stuff.

----------------BREAK---------------------

Adding another pair of physical melee weapons to the discussion.

First off is the Gundam Hammer / Hyper Hammer. A large spiked ball on the end of the chain utilized by the RX-78-2 Gundam. While a very medieval style weapon it can be rather effective against slow moving targets that the Gundam faced like iconic Zaku II. The Gundam Hammer along with the G-Armor did not make an appearance in the MSG Movie compilations. However, the weapon system also appears briefly at the end of the 08th MS Team used by a Gundam Ground type. It's also featured in Turn-A Gundam, although I haven't yet seen the show.

Now the question is, how practical is the Gundam Hammer?

Setting aside metal stress/strain and fatigue limits for the arms and internal components we know that the legs are strong enough to propel it into the air, and the arms are strong enough to resist the blunt force of the enemy swinging giant tomahawks and swords. From that we can infer that the Gundam's arms are quite strong and it is able to swing the hammer with great force and speed. As a result a heavy spiked ball with a lot of force behind it can be quite dangerous.

As for practical I offer two points.
1. One of the limiting factors of the Beam Sabers was they did have a limited run time. I'd say MSG has the beam sabers running out of power more so than any other UC show. Having a devastating weapon that doesn't rely on power can be quite useful.
2. Many of the enemies of the time period were not very agile. The hammer could be used to great effect against a Zaku or other slow moving Zeon MS. Probably not effective against a Dom or Gouf. Moving past the OYW as the mobility and flight capability of suits increased the hammer itself becomes incredibly non-practical.

As for impractical, taking the time to wind up the hammer leave the user wide open and unmoving. Not as much a problem considering Luna Titanium was superior to many weapons of the time period but once beam weapons became commonplace it becomes a large liability.

If anyone is familiar with Turn-A Gundam and can offer insight as to the effectiveness or practicality of the Gundam Hammer in that universe, it would be greatly appreciated.

Next up we have the evolution the melee hammer weapon, the hammer gun. This is used by the ever mysterious MS-13 Gasshia / Gatsha. The suit design first appeared in MS-X with a design that resembles a Zeon Aquatic MS but appears to be developed for space combat, possibly on asteroids or inside colonies. It has the claws and similar body shape of a Z'gok with rockets on it's shoulders. It's primary weapon system is a hammer gun. Which is to say, a gun that fires a hammer.

I'm not sure when I first came across this design, possibly when I was looking up variations like the Agg or Juaggu. The suit has been featured most recently in Gundam Battle Operation 2 (GBO2) where it's hammer gun has the physics pulled straight from a Warner Bros cartoon or Who Framed Roger Rabbit. The hammer is propelled towards the target, possibly with some sort of rocket-gyro assist then it's retracted backward via cable back to the gun. The range is surprisingly long, the force is high enough to cripple a MS legs with ease.

As for why this weapon exists? Well that's hard to say. Perhaps Zeon engineers were hoping the impact force of the hammer would be enough to break through the shield by damaging the GM's arm/elbow joints. Perhaps they wanted a destructive weapon to be used inside a colony for the defense of Side 3. Perhaps it's just a goofy design like the Zakrello. Anyone else have any thoughts?
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Re: Practicality of Physical Melee Weapons in Gundam

Underrated GM Custom wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 11:32 am That's very interesting, so essentially Ahab waves have gravitational forces that are forcing the subatmoic structures to behave in a certain way. So instead of making a better metal your reactor is constantly applying a force to resist deformation of that material. Very fascinating stuff.
Close, I guess?

That explanation's off a bit from what's said in the Mechanics and World books and the HG Barbatos manual.

It's the Ahab particles themselves that exert gravitational force that's used to provide artificial gravity for ships or certain types of space installations, and to provide inertial damping for mobile suit cockpits. Ahab waves are the intense electromagnetic wave activity created by the high-speed diffusion of elementary particles released when Ahab particles decay. Nano-laminate armor is a metallic nanomaterial paint that reacts to Ahab waves to form a sort of shock-absorbent molecular lattice that can diffuse the kinetic force of beam weapon strikes and impacts from things like bullets and other objects. Basically, it's kind of like spray-on Luna Titanium in that respect. The defensive ability comes from the paint itself, not the metal it's painted on.

The reason that close combat weapons and short-ranged strikes with high-powered armor-piercing ammunition are the norm is that the way to defeat nanolaminate armor is to cause it to peel off or ablate under repeated impacts and leave the much weaker underlying metal exposed. On IBO MS's, only the frame is made out of the obligatory extremely-rare high-hardness alloy. Anything other than the frame, which houses the Ahab reactors, is dependent on nanolaminate armor for its defensive ability.


Underrated GM Custom wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 11:32 am First off is the Gundam Hammer / Hyper Hammer. A large spiked ball on the end of the chain utilized by the RX-78-2 Gundam. While a very medieval style weapon it can be rather effective against slow moving targets that the Gundam faced like iconic Zaku II. The Gundam Hammer along with the G-Armor did not make an appearance in the MSG Movie compilations. However, the weapon system also appears briefly at the end of the 08th MS Team used by a Gundam Ground type. It's also featured in Turn-A Gundam, although I haven't yet seen the show.

Now the question is, how practical is the Gundam Hammer?

Setting aside metal stress/strain and fatigue limits for the arms and internal components we know that the legs are strong enough to propel it into the air, and the arms are strong enough to resist the blunt force of the enemy swinging giant tomahawks and swords. From that we can infer that the Gundam's arms are quite strong and it is able to swing the hammer with great force and speed. As a result a heavy spiked ball with a lot of force behind it can be quite dangerous.
Against enemy Mobile Suits that lack the ultra-tough Luna Titanium/Gundarium armor, the Gundam Hammer is a pretty nasty piece of work provided the pilot can actually connect with it. It's a big, heavy piece of metal with spikes on it. Force equals mass times acceleration. That said, both the Gundam Hammer and Hyper Hammer are incredibly unwieldy and if the chain breaks (like it does in the series) the weapon's basically useless.


Underrated GM Custom wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 11:32 am As for why this weapon exists? Well that's hard to say.
Like most Zeon developments, the most likely explanations are "corruption", "nepotism", and "designer lost a bar bet".
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Re: Practicality of Physical Melee Weapons in Gundam

IIRC, it was mentioned somewhere that Turn A use I-field to manipulate the hammer's weight.

Regardless of the validity of the statement, the idea is used again in Fon's Astrea F's GN Hammer.
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Re: Practicality of Physical Melee Weapons in Gundam

Seto Kaiba wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 9:31 pmNano-laminate armor is a metallic nanomaterial paint that reacts to Ahab waves to form a sort of shock-absorbent molecular lattice that can diffuse the kinetic force of beam weapon strikes and impacts from things like bullets and other objects.
Minor correction, but this should be Ahab Particles given the Nanolaminate Armor profile in IBO Mechanics & World on Page 92 notes that they react to the Ahab Particles' gravity field.

I think there some sources say they are powered by Ahab Waves (one of the earlier G-Mechanics?) and some sources say Ahab Particles (HiRM 1/100 Barbatos, Mechanics & World) but the detail given in IBO Mechanics should favor solving the dispute in Ahab Particles' favor since gravity generation is their thing.
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Re: Practicality of Physical Melee Weapons in Gundam

Seto Kaiba wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 9:31 pm Basically, it's kind of like spray-on Luna Titanium in that respect. The defensive ability comes from the paint itself, not the metal it's painted on.
Ah I see what you mean now! My comment was meant to be why develop better armor when the reactor is able to provide protection to the external material, I was referring to the nano-laminate coating but rereading it I can see why it sounds like I was referring to the frames metal. Thanks for all the added information!
On IBO MS's, only the frame is made out of the obligatory extremely-rare high-hardness alloy. Anything other than the frame, which houses the Ahab reactors, is dependent on nanolaminate armor for its defensive ability.
Little confused on this one. When I think Frame I think all the metal structures that house the MS internal components. I can't tell if you're saying the obligatory super-metal is just around the reactor or on the whole suit?
Against enemy Mobile Suits that lack the ultra-tough Luna Titanium/Gundarium armor, the Gundam Hammer is a pretty nasty piece of work provided the pilot can actually connect with it.
I'd wager the hammer would still be very effective against Luna TItanium. We do see the heavy metal arm of an AC Guy massively dent the Gundam Ground Types heavily armored torso.
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Kuruni wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 1:06 am IIRC, it was mentioned somewhere that Turn A use I-field to manipulate the hammer's weight.

Regardless of the validity of the statement, the idea is used again in Fon's Astrea F's GN Hammer.
That's really interesting since I had thought the weakness of an I-Field was that it only affected particles and conventional munition still went through the I-Field.

I had no idea the Gundam Hammer made an appearance in Gundam 00. Looking forward to reading 00F in the future.
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