Newtype premonition: Telepathy or precognition?

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False Prophet
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Newtype premonition: Telepathy or precognition?

Post by False Prophet » Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:12 pm

Again and again Newtype (and X-Rounder too) pilots have shown the ability to sense and react to threats split seconds before they actually happen. Do you think that this is ability is telepathic or precognitive in nature? It's the difference between "I can sense this guy over there has intention to attack me" to "I can sense this guy's attack coming toward me in the next few seconds.", both of which have been supported by evidences from the shows--sensing a person's "aura" is nothing new, and we know from Unicorn that Newtypes could really f**k with time. Would Newtype ability be affected when the pilots fight non-human foes A.K.A. mobile dolls or the ELS?

With Coordinators in SEED mode on the other hand, I always have this impression that their brains automatically construct simulation models in real time and use the result to predict what would happen.

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Re: Newtype premonition: Telepathy or precognition?

Post by Seto Kaiba » Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:39 am

False Prophet wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:12 pm
Again and again Newtype (and X-Rounder too) pilots have shown the ability to sense and react to threats split seconds before they actually happen. Do you think that this is ability is telepathic or precognitive in nature?
As you might expect from a long-running shared universe (multiverse), the answer has wandered a little bit as time has passed.

The so-called "Newtype flash" has mostly been depicted as a kind of telepathy that senses hostile intent directed at the newtype a split second before the intended action can occur physically... making it appear as though newtypes have very limited precognitive abilities. It was an extension of the concept that newtypes were a new breed of human capable of communicating without misunderstanding.


False Prophet wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:12 pm
[...] and we know from Unicorn that Newtypes could really f**k with time.
UC and NT add more of a parapsychological flavor to the idea similar to Sheldrake's morphic field theory and the Hindu tradition of the Akashic record... that human minds are separate from the body and that when we die our minds return to that higher-dimensional source which is independent of time. (Essentially, that the source of all cognition exists in that higher-dimensional realm and the human body is like a terminal through which the higher dimension can interact with three-dimensional space at the cost of restricting its access to that higher dimension and its resources.


False Prophet wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:12 pm
Would Newtype ability be affected when the pilots fight non-human foes A.K.A. mobile dolls or the ELS?
Under the conventional definition of how newtype powers work? It would depend on how the non-human foes were set up.

Something like the bio-brains used by the Jupiter Empire would still produce brainwaves that newtypes could see into with their powers because it's a biotechnological synthetic brain.

The ELS, similarly, have detectable brainwaves that can be interacted with.

Something completely artificial like a Mobile Doll would probably be beyond a newtype's ability to read if it was operating fully autonomously. If they were semi-autonomous it's possible the newtype could read the intent of their controller.


False Prophet wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:12 pm
With Coordinators in SEED mode on the other hand, I always have this impression that their brains automatically construct simulation models in real time and use the result to predict what would happen.
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Re: Newtype premonition: Telepathy or precognition?

Post by MythSearcher » Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:05 am

False Prophet wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:12 pm
Again and again Newtype (and X-Rounder too) pilots have shown the ability to sense and react to threats split seconds before they actually happen. Do you think that this is ability is telepathic or precognitive in nature? It's the difference between "I can sense this guy over there has intention to attack me" to "I can sense this guy's attack coming toward me in the next few seconds.", both of which have been supported by evidences from the shows--sensing a person's "aura" is nothing new, and we know from Unicorn that Newtypes could really f**k with time. Would Newtype ability be affected when the pilots fight non-human foes A.K.A. mobile dolls or the ELS?

With Coordinators in SEED mode on the other hand, I always have this impression that their brains automatically construct simulation models in real time and use the result to predict what would happen.
It has been established that the NT's abilities other than the highly accurate prediction abilities, are all from interaction with the Minovsky particles.
M particles are medium for Psycommu waves, NTs can sense this and create Psycommu waves of their own.
The Waves essencially act like radar waves for NTs(According to Sentinel's imidam and 0083, they also created machines that can do that to a certain degree) So NTs don't need to rely on their sight and visual information to react, and this created the illusion of "negative reaction time" where they started to react before they receive visual stimuli.(As shown in Ecole du Ciel)
We can see that Char can react to Nuclear missiles, so no, it doesn't matter if those are human or not, because anything moving in the field of M particles will create waves from within them and thus sensible by the NTs.

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Re: Newtype premonition: Telepathy or precognition?

Post by False Prophet » Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:58 pm

MythSearcher wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:05 am
It has been established that the NT's abilities other than the highly accurate prediction abilities, are all from interaction with the Minovsky particles.
M particles are medium for Psycommu waves, NTs can sense this and create Psycommu waves of their own.
The Waves essencially act like radar waves for NTs(According to Sentinel's imidam and 0083, they also created machines that can do that to a certain degree) So NTs don't need to rely on their sight and visual information to react, and this created the illusion of "negative reaction time" where they started to react before they receive visual stimuli.(As shown in Ecole du Ciel)
We can see that Char can react to Nuclear missiles, so no, it doesn't matter if those are human or not, because anything moving in the field of M particles will create waves from within them and thus sensible by the NTs.
So... We can say that the more Minovsky particles saturated an area, the more powerful the abilities of Newtypes become? That makes it suspiciously sounds like the deal with Innovators and GN Particles.

Also that reminds me of this question: Which was the first mobile suit that could release a noticeable amount of Minovsky particles? Was it the Penelope and/or Xi Gundam, the Record Breaker, or the Victory 2? And would that be a good thing to do? I remember that in the Ghiren's Greed games, battleships could release Minovsky Particles in the air as some kind of smokescreen which lowers enemies' accuracy.

(I did read somewhere that Victory 2's Wings of Like is an unwanted byproduct--had the Minovsky Drive worked perfectly, it could had been able to contain all the Minovsky particles and used them to create thrust. It was only because Uso was such a good pilot that he was able to weaponize the leaked particles.)

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Re: Newtype premonition: Telepathy or precognition?

Post by MythSearcher » Fri Dec 25, 2020 6:43 am

False Prophet wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:58 pm
So... We can say that the more Minovsky particles saturated an area, the more powerful the abilities of Newtypes become? That makes it suspiciously sounds like the deal with Innovators and GN Particles.

Also that reminds me of this question: Which was the first mobile suit that could release a noticeable amount of Minovsky particles? Was it the Penelope and/or Xi Gundam, the Record Breaker, or the Victory 2? And would that be a good thing to do? I remember that in the Ghiren's Greed games, battleships could release Minovsky Particles in the air as some kind of smokescreen which lowers enemies' accuracy.

(I did read somewhere that Victory 2's Wings of Like is an unwanted byproduct--had the Minovsky Drive worked perfectly, it could had been able to contain all the Minovsky particles and used them to create thrust. It was only because Uso was such a good pilot that he was able to weaponize the leaked particles.)
To a certain degree, yes. And to tip you off, GN particles are modelled very heavily after the Minovsky particles, so...
Amuro in 0093 with Nu Gundam being able to perform the miraculous feat of pushing away Axis is also technically one of the effects of NT's ability to resonance with the M particles and creating a VERY dense I-Field that made Axis bounce away. Of course this is only possible when almost everyone involved there prayed for the same thing to happen, and amplified the effects by the Psycho-frame. Zeta, ZZ and Qubeley being able to block beam attacks are also attributed to the same effects of NT attracting M particles creating an I-Field.

I think even the Zaku releases a noticeable amount of M particles, just that the density isn't going to be battle level. All Minovsky type fusion reactors release M particles, and they surely can be used to recharge beam sabres and to a certain degree, beam guns.(As early as the GM's beam sabre) so the particle quantity must be detectably high.
However, if you really want to create the large amount of tactical or even strategical density, you need specifically designed MS and warships to do so. After OYW you also get M-warheads.

It is definitely not very nice to randomly scatter a lot of M particles because it essentially is a type of pollution which will block even civilian use of radio waves for communication, and I have no doubt laser communication is much more limited in its ability for broadcasting. The Granada accords did include restraining the wide scattering of M particles, so you get the idea. Luckily it will go away by itself, I read that it will reduce in density enough for regular transmmittion in 29 days, but no idea what source this is from.(The info is from a pretty authoritative Chinese fan book, but still, no matter how accurate the other info in it are, a fan book is a fan book and I don't recall an official source supporting this)

The Wing of Light is a byproduct but I don't think it is unwanted. You have to have a density differential for the Minovsky Drive to work, and the result is a high density particle scattering, thus the Wings of Light, which is a plasma of M particles, basically the same thing as a beam sabre or beam shield, just much bigger and likely less contained. The concept is pretty much the same for the Minovsky Flight system for earlier MSs, where they scatter M particles under the unit to create the density differential.(Unlike the Minovsky Craft, where they just sit on the large cushion of M particles)

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Re: Newtype premonition: Telepathy or precognition?

Post by False Prophet » Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:09 am

MythSearcher wrote:
Fri Dec 25, 2020 6:43 am
I think even the Zaku releases a noticeable amount of M particles, just that the density isn't going to be battle level. All Minovsky type fusion reactors release M particles, and they surely can be used to recharge beam sabres and to a certain degree, beam guns.(As early as the GM's beam sabre) so the particle quantity must be detectably high.
However, if you really want to create the large amount of tactical or even strategical density, you need specifically designed MS and warships to do so. After OYW you also get M-warheads.

It is definitely not very nice to randomly scatter a lot of M particles because it essentially is a type of pollution which will block even civilian use of radio waves for communication, and I have no doubt laser communication is much more limited in its ability for broadcasting. The Granada accords did include restraining the wide scattering of M particles, so you get the idea. Luckily it will go away by itself, I read that it will reduce in density enough for regular transmmittion in 29 days, but no idea what source this is from.(The info is from a pretty authoritative Chinese fan book, but still, no matter how accurate the other info in it are, a fan book is a fan book and I don't recall an official source supporting this)

The Wing of Light is a byproduct but I don't think it is unwanted. You have to have a density differential for the Minovsky Drive to work, and the result is a high density particle scattering, thus the Wings of Light, which is a plasma of M particles, basically the same thing as a beam sabre or beam shield, just much bigger and likely less contained. The concept is pretty much the same for the Minovsky Flight system for earlier MSs, where they scatter M particles under the unit to create the density differential.(Unlike the Minovsky Craft, where they just sit on the large cushion of M particles)
Do we have any idea how long can the first generation of beam sabers and e-cap beam rifles can function before they need a recharge? Amuro did run out of energy for the Gundam's rifles a few times in the original series, right?

I don't disagree with your idea of the Wings of Light, just that it seems too hazardous and could cause a lot of collateral damage.

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Re: Newtype premonition: Telepathy or precognition?

Post by MythSearcher » Fri Dec 25, 2020 12:29 pm

False Prophet wrote:
Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:09 am
Do we have any idea how long can the first generation of beam sabers and e-cap beam rifles can function before they need a recharge? Amuro did run out of energy for the Gundam's rifles a few times in the original series, right?

I don't disagree with your idea of the Wings of Light, just that it seems too hazardous and could cause a lot of collateral damage.
I don't recall a specific setting for it. Surely no info is given in Gundam Officials, Ver. 1.5, Master Archive, etc. Although they seem to like the numbers 15 and 16 quite well and a lot of games the RX-78's beam rifle is set to that number.

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Re: Newtype premonition: Telepathy or precognition?

Post by Seto Kaiba » Fri Dec 25, 2020 2:25 pm

False Prophet wrote:
Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:09 am
Do we have any idea how long can the first generation of beam sabers and e-cap beam rifles can function before they need a recharge? Amuro did run out of energy for the Gundam's rifles a few times in the original series, right?
Not for the beam sabers... but in the original series the RX-78-2's beam rifle could store enough Minovsky particles for 16 shots in its e-cap before needing to be recharged. Master Archive Mobile Suit offers specs for the OYW EFF Mobile Suit-carried weapons including the various flavors of beam rifle and beam spray gun. Most models have a 16 shot capacity listed, except for a few like the RGM-79GS's (12), the RGM-79R's (24), and the beam sniper rifles (2-8).
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Re: Newtype premonition: Telepathy or precognition?

Post by MythSearcher » Sat Dec 26, 2020 4:35 am

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Fri Dec 25, 2020 2:25 pm
Not for the beam sabers... but in the original series the RX-78-2's beam rifle could store enough Minovsky particles for 16 shots in its e-cap before needing to be recharged. Master Archive Mobile Suit offers specs for the OYW EFF Mobile Suit-carried weapons including the various flavors of beam rifle and beam spray gun. Most models have a 16 shot capacity listed, except for a few like the RGM-79GS's (12), the RGM-79R's (24), and the beam sniper rifles (2-8).
Did I miss the page specifying the RX-78's beam rifle shoots? I know they give a lot of numbers in the GM's book, but don't see it gave the number of shots in the beam rifle page in the RX-78 book? Is it on another page or did I over looked something?
Or are you referring to the actual counting of shots in the original anime? (which likely gave the 16 shots in the games they like to set)

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Re: Newtype premonition: Telepathy or precognition?

Post by Seto Kaiba » Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:41 am

MythSearcher wrote:
Sat Dec 26, 2020 4:35 am
Did I miss the page specifying the RX-78's beam rifle shoots? I know they give a lot of numbers in the GM's book, but don't see it gave the number of shots in the beam rifle page in the RX-78 book? Is it on another page or did I over looked something?
Sort of? Somewhat unhelpfully, that information is actually in Master Archive Mobile Suit: RGM-79 GM Vol.1, in the section marked "Armaments of RGM-79" that starts on page 089. It includes specs for the beam spray guns and an assortment of beam rifles and hard round rifles used by the GM, GM II, and Gundams in the early UC. One of them is the RX-78-2's XBR-M-79-07G.
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Re: Newtype premonition: Telepathy or precognition?

Post by False Prophet » Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:56 pm

Say, do you think understanding and empathy have any impact toward Newtypes? Like, if you understand an enemy as a person, you can better interpret that person's intentions that you have learnt through telepathy?

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Re: Newtype premonition: Telepathy or precognition?

Post by Seto Kaiba » Sun Dec 27, 2020 3:18 am

False Prophet wrote:
Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:56 pm
Say, do you think understanding and empathy have any impact toward Newtypes? Like, if you understand an enemy as a person, you can better interpret that person's intentions that you have learnt through telepathy?
The whole schtick with Newtype was that they were supposed to be a new breed of human adapted to space whose powers enabled them to understand each other without misconceptions... so yes, but in reverse. Newtype abilities enhanced a person's ability to understand the intentions of another person without having to actually know them in any personal sense. With non-Newtypes it seems to function mostly as a "danger sense", while with other Newtypes they're capable of direct telepathic communication once their powers mature sufficiently.
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