Hi-Zack and psychological warfare

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False Prophet
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Hi-Zack and psychological warfare

Post by False Prophet » Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:37 pm

Do you guys think that the Titans wanted to insult Zeon Remnants with the Hi-Zack? The Zaku was one of the most iconic OYW MS, and served as a reminder of the might of the Principality. The Titans using Hi-Zack felt like it sent this message to Zeon Remnants: "You've got nothing, not even a symbol because we have taken everything from you." On the least it was a demoralizing thing, I suppose, the same as with making Gundam easily identifiable and scary.

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Seto Kaiba
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Re: Hi-Zack and psychological warfare

Post by Seto Kaiba » Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:54 am

Sort of...

I can't find anything to suggest the actual design of the RMS-109 Hizack had any such intent behind it... but there is a remark in the HGUC Hizack kit manual about the Titans choice of paintjob. The Titans painted their Hizacks in Zeon's iconic Zaku green to unnerve the Zeon Army remnants they were hunting. Their green paintjob is also noted to serve a dual purpose in that it made them ideally suited for use as aggressor squadrons for simulated combat training.
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Kuruni
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Re: Hi-Zack and psychological warfare

Post by Kuruni » Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:57 am

It's kinda has other effect too. Supposedly Axis engineers start working on the Zaku III only because they're angry at Hi-Zakck and Marasai being Zaku II's successors.
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MythSearcher
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Re: Hi-Zack and psychological warfare

Post by MythSearcher » Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:41 am

False Prophet wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:37 pm
Do you guys think that the Titans wanted to insult Zeon Remnants with the Hi-Zack? The Zaku was one of the most iconic OYW MS, and served as a reminder of the might of the Principality. The Titans using Hi-Zack felt like it sent this message to Zeon Remnants: "You've got nothing, not even a symbol because we have taken everything from you." On the least it was a demoralizing thing, I suppose, the same as with making Gundam easily identifiable and scary.
Some of that but another fun fact is that it made their own pilots hate the MS they are using.
Which isn't good for morale.

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Re: Hi-Zack and psychological warfare

Post by False Prophet » Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:17 am

MythSearcher wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:41 am
Some of that but another fun fact is that it made their own pilots hate the MS they are using.
Which isn't good for morale.
That's logical, but the closest example I could think of is a line in the Advance of Zeta manga. I suppose that since they were the elites, those Titans who did not like the Hi-Zack could request the GM Quel. And beside, there were real precedents of a country putting a weapons used to belong to their former enemies into official service.

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MythSearcher
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Re: Hi-Zack and psychological warfare

Post by MythSearcher » Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:33 am

False Prophet wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:17 am
That's logical, but the closest example I could think of is a line in the Advance of Zeta manga. I suppose that since they were the elites, those Titans who did not like the Hi-Zack could request the GM Quel. And beside, there were real precedents of a country putting a weapons used to belong to their former enemies into official service.
Since all of the Titans are supposed to be elites, I doubt their request will be entertained. It will likely mess up the logistics and higher ups really don't want that to happen.

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Re: Hi-Zack and psychological warfare

Post by Alomoes » Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:38 am

Hi-Zack is a good design. GM II is not. They have the GM. So zeonic put it in a Zaku frame. Give it the GM's best feature, the big shield, although the Hizack shield is kind of crap. Armor doesn't matter in Zeta period anyways beyond ballistics protection, and anti-beam coating.

Basically their choice was the gabaldy, GM II, or the Hizack. Gabaldy is good, but expensive. If you want to raise an army that can contest sudden attacks on the scale of 0083, you need the Hizack. They basically can simply use all the Zaku manufacturing from the one year war.

I'm gonna suspect nobody liked the fact that it was a glorified Zaku.

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Re: Hi-Zack and psychological warfare

Post by Kuruni » Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:45 am

Alomoes wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:38 am
They basically can simply use all the Zaku manufacturing from the one year war.
I think they're quite different, IIRC it is new design. So new that AE made mistake and has it only support 1 beam weapon at time. So it's unlikely to be as cheap as GM II, that they can do quick upgrade from old GM or GM Kai.
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Re: Hi-Zack and psychological warfare

Post by MythSearcher » Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:40 am

Alomoes wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:38 am
Hi-Zack is a good design. GM II is not. They have the GM. So zeonic put it in a Zaku frame. Give it the GM's best feature, the big shield, although the Hizack shield is kind of crap. Armor doesn't matter in Zeta period anyways beyond ballistics protection, and anti-beam coating.

Basically their choice was the gabaldy, GM II, or the Hizack. Gabaldy is good, but expensive. If you want to raise an army that can contest sudden attacks on the scale of 0083, you need the Hizack. They basically can simply use all the Zaku manufacturing from the one year war.

I'm gonna suspect nobody liked the fact that it was a glorified Zaku.
But GM II is a good design. While it may not be as good as the Hi-zack, it also does not have the problem the Hi-zacks are facing, where it cannot use multiple beam weapons at the same time.
The GM II got a better generator, while its fire power per shot is a little bit weaker, it likely can support faster firing rates.
It also has a smaller profile, meaning better average armour thickness, and its heavier empty weight meant it has more armour mass, so it should have better defence.
Smaller profile also means harder to hit, the 3% decrease in thrust to mass ratio from Hi-zack's 1.09 to its 1.06 isn't that much of a disadvantage.

The GM II also have a better supporting infrastructure, because it is basically just an upgraded GM, and its customizability is also worth noting, because by 0086, they are already designing to upgrade them to GM IIIs.

The Titans higher ups likely really liked the GM becasue in the beginning of AOZ, the T3 team were mainly testing the GM CR for if they want to adopt the GM II as well and later TR-1 for the Gundam Mk-II before the Gryps war. While they decided to adopt the Hi-zack and later the Marasai as time was ticking fast(er, than they hoped), they still likely wanted to switch back to using the GM family as it has better maintainability and you do not see them creating equipment after equipment for the Hi-zack and Marasai to be tested like the TR-1.

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JEFFPIATT
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Re: Hi-Zack and psychological warfare

Post by JEFFPIATT » Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:51 pm

Alomoes wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:38 am
Hi-Zack is a good design. GM II is not. They have the GM. So zeonic put it in a Zaku frame. Give it the GM's best feature, the big shield, although the Hizack shield is kind of crap. Armor doesn't matter in Zeta period anyways beyond ballistics protection, and anti-beam coating.

Basically their choice was the gabaldy, GM II, or the Hizack. Gabaldy is good, but expensive. If you want to raise an army that can contest sudden attacks on the scale of 0083, you need the Hizack. They basically can simply use all the Zaku manufacturing from the one year war.

I'm gonna suspect nobody liked the fact that it was a glorified Zaku.
Gabaldy Beta never made it beyond being the main MS of anywhere beyond Luna II and the ships that operate out of it's harbor was because it used out of date armor materials.it used Titanium Alloy for its armor while both the R type refit of the GM line known as the GM II and the Hi-zack used newer Titanium Alloy Ceramic Composite.

it was made lighter by having thinner OYO style armor while the others had thicker modern armor that and the Zaku II line being basically the most mass produced suit with tons of option packs it was likely cheaper to use AE's upgraded Zaku II and just use the inner frame to remake old zaku II vtypes with a RGM tech based frame. the beta while a faster and better thought out suit would have the issue fo making new lines while the RMS-106 could just use captured Zaku lines left in recaptured EFF bases.

we just stop see them later in zeta due to how many newer units are being used based on the Gundam MK II frame data. that and the fact that the Titans being the IMC with all the money never saw a concept thet never got approved.

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