How is the fluid pulse system supposed to work again?

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ryu289
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How is the fluid pulse system supposed to work again?

Post by ryu289 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:32 am

According to the Gundam Century reference book:
http://www.ultimatemark.com/gundam/arch ... ntury.html
Its joints were driven by a fluid pulse system, which used a pulse converter to turn the energy produced by the atomic reactor into pulses of pressure within a fluid. Thousands of fluid pipes, finer than human hairs, transmitted these pulses at supersonic speed to the rotary cylinders which drove the joints. This system yielded a higher operating speed than hydraulics, and lower weight and greater structural simplicity than electric motors
Are the scientific principles behind this sound? Are there other sources that give more info?

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Seto Kaiba
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Re: How is the fluid pulse system supposed to work again?

Post by Seto Kaiba » Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:58 pm

ryu289 wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:32 am
Are the scientific principles behind this sound?
I mean, it's just a rotary actuator with a really exotic fluid power drive.

ryu289 wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:32 am
Are there other sources that give more info?
I'd suspect you'd find more in Master Archive Mobile Suit: MS-06 Zaku II.
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ryu289
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Re: How is the fluid pulse system supposed to work again?

Post by ryu289 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:18 pm

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:58 pm
ryu289 wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:32 am
Are the scientific principles behind this sound?
I mean, it's just a rotary actuator with a really exotic fluid power drive.

ryu289 wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:32 am
Are there other sources that give more info?
I'd suspect you'd find more in Master Archive Mobile Suit: MS-06 Zaku II.
Ok, first off...huh? Can you go into more detail about this rotary actuator?

And two, where can I read this Master Archive? Is it translated? Would I need to buy it?

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Seto Kaiba
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Re: How is the fluid pulse system supposed to work again?

Post by Seto Kaiba » Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:57 pm

ryu289 wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:18 pm
Ok, first off...huh? Can you go into more detail about this rotary actuator?
... really? It's a really basic concept in mechanical engineering. It's just a machine that turns something. They come in all different types, driven by electric motors, mechanical transmission of power from other moving parts, pneumatically, hydraulically, using vacuum pressure, etc. As long as it uses some kind of transmission of energy to rotate something, it's a rotary actuator.

The yellow Kinetrol pneumatic actuators that provide motive power for so many wildly dangerous MythBusters devices are a good example of industrial-grade rotary actuators.

The single-axis motors in most of the joints of a typical mobile suit are rotary actuators by definition, albeit driven by an unusual/exotic method that amounts to nuclear-powered pulsed-power hydraulics.


ryu289 wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:18 pm
And two, where can I read this Master Archive? Is it translated? Would I need to buy it?
Master Archive Mobile Suit is a series of technical publications for Mobile Suit Gundam's Universal Century published by SoftBank Creative, in cooperation with GAGraphic. There's ten or so books in the series now, AFAIK, that each cover the history and capabilities of one particular model of Mobile Suit or specific family of Mobile Suit like the RX-78 series, GP series, Zeta Gundam, Unicorn Gundam, Sinanju, Zaku II, GM I, GM II, and GM II, Nu Gundam, and the Victory Gundam. The same publisher also has several other series in the style, most titled Master File, including eleven books for Macross mecha, and ones for Ace Combat: Assault Horizon, Vifam, Dougram, and Dragonar.

As far as I know, it has not been translated into English. It's pretty easy to get through Mandarake and various other Japanese specialty bookstores, Amazon, and occasionally eBay.
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ryu289
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Re: How is the fluid pulse system supposed to work again?

Post by ryu289 » Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:01 am

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:57 pm
... really? It's a really basic concept in mechanical engineering. It's just a machine that turns something. They come in all different types, driven by electric motors, mechanical transmission of power from other moving parts, pneumatically, hydraulically, using vacuum pressure, etc. As long as it uses some kind of transmission of energy to rotate something, it's a rotary actuator.

The yellow Kinetrol pneumatic actuators that provide motive power for so many wildly dangerous MythBusters devices are a good example of industrial-grade rotary actuators.

The single-axis motors in most of the joints of a typical mobile suit are rotary actuators by definition, albeit driven by an unusual/exotic method that amounts to nuclear-powered pulsed-power hydraulics.
Hmmm...interesting.
Now first off, I am not a trained mechanical engineer, so I wouldn't know this by heart.
Second how does pulse power work. That was what I was curious about to begin with
Third, I do think this has potential with different energy conversion schemes...but I need to know a bit more first.

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Re: How is the fluid pulse system supposed to work again?

Post by Seto Kaiba » Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:36 pm

ryu289 wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:01 am
Now first off, I am not a trained mechanical engineer, so I wouldn't know this by heart.
I'm not one either... though I am an engineer.


ryu289 wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:01 am
Second how does pulse power work. That was what I was curious about to begin with
In principle, the only real difference between a conventional rotary actuator and one working on pulsed power is the one running on pulsed power receives all the energy to make the desired motion in a single sharp impulse rather than as a more gradual application of force over a longer period of time.

A normal rotary actuator is like a revolving door... you keep pushing in order to make it rotate 180 degrees over the course of several seconds. The fluid pulse system's pulsed power rotary actuators are essentially like using a bomb to push the door 180 degrees almost instantly.

ryu289 wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:01 am
Third, I do think this has potential with different energy conversion schemes...but I need to know a bit more first.
This is more about how fast the energy to change the actuator's position is delivered... a gentle push vs. a fast slap.
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Re: How is the fluid pulse system supposed to work again?

Post by ryu289 » Sun Jan 26, 2020 6:47 am

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:36 pm
ryu289 wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:01 am
Now first off, I am not a trained mechanical engineer, so I wouldn't know this by heart.
I'm not one either... though I am an engineer.
Well good for you.
Seto Kaiba wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:36 pm
In principle, the only real difference between a conventional rotary actuator and one working on pulsed power is the one running on pulsed power receives all the energy to make the desired motion in a single sharp impulse rather than as a more gradual application of force over a longer period of time.

A normal rotary actuator is like a revolving door... you keep pushing in order to make it rotate 180 degrees over the course of several seconds. The fluid pulse system's pulsed power rotary actuators are essentially like using a bomb to push the door 180 degrees almost instantly.
Interesting...
Seto Kaiba wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:36 pm
ryu289 wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:01 am
Third, I do think this has potential with different energy conversion schemes...but I need to know a bit more first.
This is more about how fast the energy to change the actuator's position is delivered... a gentle push vs. a fast slap.
I was wondering if a photovoltaic system like the PIDEC system I have been talking about would work...

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Re: How is the fluid pulse system supposed to work again?

Post by Seto Kaiba » Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:00 pm

ryu289 wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 6:47 am
I was wondering if a photovoltaic system like the PIDEC system I have been talking about would work...
AFAIK, the reason the creators went with the fluid pulse system was that they wanted an actuator system that had redonkulous amounts of torque. Electric motors can do that, but you need to apply a lot of power and the energy available from a Mobile Suit's generators just isn't enough to apply that kind of torque. The fluid pulse system is a hydraulic-type system but powered by the pressures inside of a fusion reactor, which are on a whole other level...
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ryu289
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Re: How is the fluid pulse system supposed to work again?

Post by ryu289 » Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:15 pm

Well that would be fine as my system is fusion anyways

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