Hypothetical OYW-era MS preference for CCA-era Char

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Hypothetical OYW-era MS preference for CCA-era Char

Post by amitakartok » Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:17 pm

As the title says, I have a scenario where late-OYW Char has all his CCA-era experience and knowledge, consequently he knows the Gundam's full capabilities and is settling for no less than going in loaded for bear. After having went through a Gouf and a Kampfer F-type, I can't figure out which of the following three suits would work best for him, provided he's got the means to acquire any suit of his choice.
  • Action Zaku: I don't think it's anywhere nearly powerful enough to take on the Gundam.
  • Gelgoog Jaeger: the very reason why he'd take the aforementioned Kampfer in the first place is due to reasoning that a Gelgoog's armor is basically dead weight against the Gundam's beam rifle, hence he'd rather not get hit at all. That being said, Amuro would have the means to keep up with a mere Kampfer at this point.
  • Dolmel: as much as it would be the obvious choice compared to the Sazabi, it feels a bit too flashy.

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Re: Hypothetical OYW-era MS preference for CCA-era Char

Post by Seto Kaiba » Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:05 pm

Char's obsession with speed and agility over durability would lead me to suspect he'd go for a MS-18 Kampfer... either the assault-focused MS-18E or the beam weaponry-focused MS-18F.
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Re: Hypothetical OYW-era MS preference for CCA-era Char

Post by yazi88 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:31 pm

Gelgoog Jaeger would be the better choice, its got more built in weapons and propellant tanks vs the Kampfer that has less operating time due to higher fuel usage. I don't know if the F variant of the Kampfer has propellant tanks or not.

The Kampfer is more manueverable and has turn a bit faster but I think the Jaegar has it beat overall, plus Char is used to a Gelgoog model so a upgrade wouldn't be too different compared to a whole other MS like the Kampfer.

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Re: Hypothetical OYW-era MS preference for CCA-era Char

Post by amitakartok » Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:34 am

In this scenario, whatever suit Char uses will ultimately have to go up against CCA-era Amuro in the Alex and not die in seconds.

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Re: Hypothetical OYW-era MS preference for CCA-era Char

Post by Seto Kaiba » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:41 am

amitakartok wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:34 am
In this scenario, whatever suit Char uses will ultimately have to go up against CCA-era Amuro in the Alex and not die in seconds.
Put simply, on specs alone that rules out EVERY regular production mobile suit and ace custom in Zeon's arsenal.

Char Aznable didn't get a Mobile Suit of his own that was truly on par specs-wise with a Gundam until, depending on your point of view, either joined the AEUG and got the Hyakushiki or CCA itself when he got the Sazabi.

The Gelgoog and the Kampfer are probably the two OYW Zeon production units closest to a Gundam's performance, but anything Char operates is benefitting from plot armor at least as thick as Amuro's own. My money's still on the Kampfer, given that it had more concrete success against a Gundam than the Gelgoog did and Char's the type who would absolutely go in for maximum speed and performance over endurance. That was the whole schtick that got him the Red Comet nickname in the first place, running recklessly without regard for wear and tear or fuel during the Battle of Loum.
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Re: Hypothetical OYW-era MS preference for CCA-era Char

Post by amitakartok » Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:43 pm

Another thing to potentially consider is that in this scenario, both Amuro and Char have beyond-Scirocco level Newtype abilities.

Char isn't meant to win, he's meant to merely not die. Amuro has a considerably bigger reputation by this point than in canon (Zeon put an immediate-three-rank promotion bounty on his head after Odessa) and Char surviving against him over and over again, crowned by having trashed the original Gundam in that Kampfer to the point where Amuro bailed out in the Core Fighter, has caught the attention of the top brass, hence why he's given access to top-of-the-line equipment.

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Re: Hypothetical OYW-era MS preference for CCA-era Char

Post by Seto Kaiba » Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:28 pm

amitakartok wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:43 pm
Another thing to potentially consider is that in this scenario, both Amuro and Char have beyond-Scirocco level Newtype abilities.
Wouldn't it just end up being a Battle in the Center of the Mind, then? Forget Mobile Suits, bystanders will just see them staring angrily at each other until one falls down and dies.

Hell, give Char the Perfect Zeong instead.
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Re: Hypothetical OYW-era MS preference for CCA-era Char

Post by Kuruni » Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:35 pm

MS-39 Saku. It should be obvious, really.
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Re: Hypothetical OYW-era MS preference for CCA-era Char

Post by Dark Duel » Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:05 am

First, I am going to assume here that Amuro gets the NT-1, which was initially IIRC created for him, though it was damaged in the Zeon attack at Side 6, plus the war ended not long afterwards.
So you have Amuro in the NT-1 against Char in either an Action Zaku, a Gelgoog Jäger, or the Dolmel.

I think we can immediately discount the Zaku. It would get owned by Amuro in the regular RX-78-2, nevermind the Alex. That leaves the Gelgoog Jäger or the Dolmel. I'm not very familiar with the Dolmel, but a high-mobility, close-combat mobile suit whose performance exceeds even that of the Gelgoog sounds like exactly the sort of shiny new toy the Red Comet would go for - especially given its paint job.
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Re: Hypothetical OYW-era MS preference for CCA-era Char

Post by domtropen » Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:57 pm

Based on its full performance shown by Mallet against G05 and Gelgoog, with its magnet coating joints and resulting agility Act Zaku is quite terrifying with its limiter removed (which Char is likely to do). It would be a better MS to fight Gundam than Zeong that Char cannot really capitalized on its full capacity.

IIRC Gelgoog Jaeger does not have beam saber for close range combat, it has only arm mount weapon [either machine gun or beam spot gun] that won't do well once Amuro get close.

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Re: Hypothetical OYW-era MS preference for CCA-era Char

Post by yazi88 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:09 pm

Gelgoog Jaeger was not shown to have using a beam saber, but it very likely has one. 0080 was a bit strange in that the Zaku and the Kampfer were the only Zeon MS in those OVAs that used melee weapons. The Rick Dom II did not use a heat saber either but it does carry one in other incarnations.

I bet if it ever gets a MG kit it will update the unit having a beam saber.

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Re: Hypothetical OYW-era MS preference for CCA-era Char

Post by domtropen » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:59 pm

The latest incarnation of Gelgoog Jaeger figure, Robot spirits ver. anime, still has no beam saber in its arsenal. HGUC Shin Matsunaga version has 2 beam sabers that seems to be taken from old HGUC Gelgoog Marine [whole saber mold in one piece]. Has it ever been shown where the beam saber is stored in Shin's machine?

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Re: Hypothetical OYW-era MS preference for CCA-era Char

Post by amitakartok » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:19 pm

Dark Duel wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:05 am
First, I am going to assume here that Amuro gets the NT-1, which was initially IIRC created for him, though it was damaged in the Zeon attack at Side 6, plus the war ended not long afterwards.
He indeed has the NT-1. Zeon indeed tries to make a move on it, but the White Base gets there in time. Additionally, the NT-1 has something in it that it didn't have in canon and Amuro doesn't know about. If he did, he wouldn't touch that thing with a barge pole and for a very good reason.

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Re: Hypothetical OYW-era MS preference for CCA-era Char

Post by Dark Duel » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:47 pm

Oh really? And what exactly would that be? Only thing from the OYW era that I can think of offhand that might cause that kind of apprehension would be the EXAM System.
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Re: Hypothetical OYW-era MS preference for CCA-era Char

Post by amitakartok » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:39 am

Exactly. Again, Amuro wasn't told about it and finds out the hard way during A Baoa Qu that the brass apparently decided to use him as a guinea pig because of "hey, if this thing makes an Oldtype fight like a Newtype, wonder what happens if we give it to someone who's already a Newtype?"

The answer, as it turns out to be, is that the suit goes on a superpowered rampage but the Newtype pilot gets hit with the full force of the System's agony and suffering, goes into an epileptic seizure with nightmarish hallucinations of his own memories intertwining with those of the System's core into a sanity-shattering jumble and needs to muster extreme force of will to avoid being mindraped into a vegetable (because surprise surprise, forcibly jamming two Newtype souls into each other isn't healthy for either party, who would've thought). Not to mention that every single Newtype in the vicinity feels the sheer wrongness radiating from the System with such intensity that Char actually throws up into his helmet from just being near it.

Amuro is absolutely REVOLTED by the very idea of such an atrocity existing and the only reason why he doesn't refuse to pilot the NT-1 ever again is because he's fully aware that if he does, the brass will just feed someone else to that monster. He considers sabotage when no one is looking but in the end, he doesn't need to due to the System willingly burning herself out to pull off a Newtype miracle and no matter how accurately the machinery in the NT-1 was replicated in attempts to reverse-engineer it (certain unscrupulous elements were interested in turning the System into the ultimate terror weapon by feeding it disposable Cyber-Newtypes who, as the theory goes, would go on a superpowered kamikaze rampage tearing up everything in sight before keeling over dead), none of the replicas ever worked due to the engineers' fundamental ignorance of what the System actually was (Moses took the secret with him to the grave and Amuro feigns ignorance). The NT-1 still works just fine without it and Amuro is feared as a pilot for good reason so he doesn't actually need the System.

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Re: Hypothetical OYW-era MS preference for CCA-era Char

Post by Dark Duel » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:52 pm

Nice. And personally I think that’s perfectly in-character as well
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