Speculating about what could have happened to Newtype between Unicorn and F91?

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False Prophet
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Speculating about what could have happened to Newtype between Unicorn and F91?

Post by False Prophet » Wed May 29, 2019 10:30 am

In this interview, Fukui said that he wanted to explore the events leading to a scarcity and mystification of Newtypes in late UC. He thought that after the people of Earth having witnessed what Amuro and then Banagher could do, fear would be a logical outcome. It would eventually lead to a catastrophic event that made Newtypes seem like a myth by the time of Victory.

So, anyone here have any speculation about what this event could be? I suppose it could be caused by a mind-manipulating device like the Angel Halo? Or, the Federation could have enacted a wide-spread propaganda program to hide the truth about Newtypes, and at the same time watching the population closely for any possible real Newtypes to be abducted?

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Re: Speculating about what could have happened to Newtype between Unicorn and F91?

Post by Seto Kaiba » Wed May 29, 2019 12:46 pm

False Prophet wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 10:30 am
So, anyone here have any speculation about what this event could be? I suppose it could be caused by a mind-manipulating device like the Angel Halo? Or, the Federation could have enacted a wide-spread propaganda program to hide the truth about Newtypes, and at the same time watching the population closely for any possible real Newtypes to be abducted?
Wasn't it already explained that Newtypes are so rare in the late Universal Century despite allegedly being the next evolutionary step for humanity because their population never gets a chance to grow with the Federation and other governments constantly weaponizing them? Newtypes seldom seem to meet peaceful deaths in Gundam, and seem to manage to settle down and start families even less often.
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Re: Speculating about what could have happened to Newtype between Unicorn and F91?

Post by False Prophet » Thu May 30, 2019 11:50 am

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 12:46 pm
Wasn't it already explained that Newtypes are so rare in the late Universal Century despite allegedly being the next evolutionary step for humanity because their population never gets a chance to grow with the Federation and other governments constantly weaponizing them? Newtypes seldom seem to meet peaceful deaths in Gundam, and seem to manage to settle down and start families even less often.
Maybe Fukui is unaware of that explanation?

But yeah, the "weaponizing" angle seems spot on. I have just watched Gundam NT, and the Titans' experiments on potential Newtype candidates were, to say the least, inhuman. And if you trace the history all the way into the late 0100s, U.C. would go on to produce even more terrifying weapons involving Newtypes.

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Re: Speculating about what could have happened to Newtype between Unicorn and F91?

Post by Seto Kaiba » Thu May 30, 2019 2:50 pm

False Prophet wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 11:50 am
Maybe Fukui is unaware of that explanation?
Or it may not be official anymore... the Universal Century gets retconned A LOT.


False Prophet wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 11:50 am
But yeah, the "weaponizing" angle seems spot on. I have just watched Gundam NT, and the Titans' experiments on potential Newtype candidates were, to say the least, inhuman. And if you trace the history all the way into the late 0100s, U.C. would go on to produce even more terrifying weapons involving Newtypes.
Government research into Newtypes seems to have been uniformly unethical to say the very least... and with Zeon and the Federation both essentially considering them super-soldiers, they weren't about to stop looking for ways to more effectively weaponize them either. The novels made the death toll among Newtypes even worse, even when they also dramatically increased the number of characters who were Newtypes.

Mirai Noa, Seabrook Arno, Berah Ronah, and Maria Pure Armonia are basically the only Newtypes we know of who'd actually lasted long enough to have children, and none of them seem to have gone in for big families either. That didn't work out so good for Mirai, since her Newtype son Hathaway got executed by firing squad for his activities in Hathaway's Flash.

The only real bright spot for Newtypes would be if Mobile Suit Victory Gundam Outside Story is canon, which had an elderly Judau Ashta (under the alias Grey Stork) protecting and later boarding a space colony that had been converted into a generation ship to facilitate an en masse emigration of Newtypes to Proxima Centauri. That manga's epilogue did note they reached and colonized Proxima Centauri in UC 0653.
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Re: Speculating about what could have happened to Newtype between Unicorn and F91?

Post by False Prophet » Fri May 31, 2019 11:45 am

Since it is Fukui we are talking about, another possible avenue he might explore is the place where Newtype souls come to rest. Can we expect an Instrumentality in Gundam UC 2? If that happen, I can't just imagine how loudly will the Western fandom protest over it.

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Re: Speculating about what could have happened to Newtype between Unicorn and F91?

Post by Seto Kaiba » Fri May 31, 2019 12:18 pm

False Prophet wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 11:45 am
Since it is Fukui we are talking about, another possible avenue he might explore is the place where Newtype souls come to rest. Can we expect an Instrumentality in Gundam UC 2? If that happen, I can't just imagine how loudly will the Western fandom protest over it.
That'd just be bizarre. I mean, Gundam's Newtypes have what is functionally extrasensory perception but the idea of going straight-up supernatural would be weird. Were they ever really clear about whether Newtypes like Amuro or Hathaway were actually communicating with the dead or just tapping into a psychic echo of the person left on their mind before their death?
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Re: Speculating about what could have happened to Newtype between Unicorn and F91?

Post by domino » Fri May 31, 2019 8:43 pm

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 12:18 pm
That'd just be bizarre. I mean, Gundam's Newtypes have what is functionally extrasensory perception but the idea of going straight-up supernatural would be weird. Were they ever really clear about whether Newtypes like Amuro or Hathaway were actually communicating with the dead or just tapping into a psychic echo of the person left on their mind before their death?
The scene at the end of Unicorn where Full Frontal 'meets' Char, Amuro and Lalah indicate that there is some form of communication possible between NewTypes and the dead....somehow made possible via the psycoframe

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Re: Speculating about what could have happened to Newtype between Unicorn and F91?

Post by yazi88 » Sat Jun 01, 2019 4:17 am

That scene of Full and Char isn't that different from all the newtype shenanigans from the end of Zeta... LOTS of Newtype ghosts there too like Sara protecting Katz from Scirroco and Kamille with all the dead spirits during the infamous wave rider crash. ZZ had some of that too.

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Re: Speculating about what could have happened to Newtype between Unicorn and F91?

Post by domino » Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:34 am

The difference is that Full Frontal himself never actually met Amuro or Layla unlike in Z and ZZ where the newtype ghosts may have been just an "echo" of the person since they met before. If we consider Full Frontal as a clone, he also met Char's "ghost" as well so he's also quite distinct. Regardless, there seems to be some Newtype magic going on there that is a bit beyond extra spatial awareness or extrasensory perception - maybe the Minovsky phenomena causes souls to be trapped in space....

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Re: Speculating about what could have happened to Newtype between Unicorn and F91?

Post by Kuruni » Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:09 am

Become Ide :p .
My girlfriend was a loli.

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Re: Speculating about what could have happened to Newtype between Unicorn and F91?

Post by Seto Kaiba » Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:18 pm

domino wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:34 am
The difference is that Full Frontal himself never actually met Amuro or Layla unlike in Z and ZZ where the newtype ghosts may have been just an "echo" of the person since they met before. If we consider Full Frontal as a clone, he also met Char's "ghost" as well so he's also quite distinct.
Full Frontal's programming as a literal Char clone was done using the psycoframe from Char's Sazabi, on which Char'd left the imprint of his thoughts, feelings, and memories. So Full Frontal, as a copy of Char's mind, had indirect contact with Lalah, Amuro, and Char when he was created.


domino wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:34 am
Regardless, there seems to be some Newtype magic going on there that is a bit beyond extra spatial awareness or extrasensory perception - maybe the Minovsky phenomena causes souls to be trapped in space....
So, hell exists... but only for Newtypes?
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Re: Speculating about what could have happened to Newtype between Unicorn and F91?

Post by Seto Kaiba » Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:51 pm

Or, even more horrifyingly, does this mean that only Newtypes have souls?
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Re: Speculating about what could have happened to Newtype between Unicorn and F91?

Post by domino » Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:37 pm

Well they certainly won't be held down by gravity anymore....

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Re: Speculating about what could have happened to Newtype between Unicorn and F91?

Post by HalfDemonInuyasha » Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:55 am

domino wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:34 am
The difference is that Full Frontal himself never actually met Amuro or Layla unlike in Z and ZZ where the newtype ghosts may have been just an "echo" of the person since they met before. If we consider Full Frontal as a clone, he also met Char's "ghost" as well so he's also quite distinct. Regardless, there seems to be some Newtype magic going on there that is a bit beyond extra spatial awareness or extrasensory perception - maybe the Minovsky phenomena causes souls to be trapped in space....
Well, a scientist managed to somehow trap the soul of a Newtype into a mobile suit computer system, so...
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Re: Speculating about what could have happened to Newtype between Unicorn and F91?

Post by hitokirigarou » Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:12 am

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 2:50 pm
That manga's epilogue did note they reached and colonized Proxima Centauri in UC 0653.
Then they created the Turn X?

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Re: Speculating about what could have happened to Newtype between Unicorn and F91?

Post by Deacon Blues » Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:04 pm

I think the way Fukui is spinning off their existence is essentially through public backlash over them. According to the radio drama that came out, the Federation still has yet to acknowledge the real Universal Century Charter (despite protests to do just that). Furthermore, scholars also speculate that Newtypes are an ideology that they can recognize but from an academic point of view not so much (basically the deep kindness and insight they possess is sorta BS from a scholarly level). If they draw on the teachings of Deikun then Newtypes are a far cry away since they're often synonymous with expert shots and Cyber-Newtypes are something else entirely.

Cue Spacenoid First movements, etc. I can see Newtypes dying out after this, honestly. People who possess the power sort of being afraid to come forward because of everything that happened. I think NT illustrated the horrors of testing on potential Newtypes enough that little public knowledge over it instilled enough fear.

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Re: Speculating about what could have happened to Newtype between Unicorn and F91?

Post by Seto Kaiba » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:20 am

Deacon Blues wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:04 pm
I think the way Fukui is spinning off their existence is essentially through public backlash over them. According to the radio drama that came out, the Federation still has yet to acknowledge the real Universal Century Charter (despite protests to do just that).
Just in case it wasn't already immediately obvious from the outset that Mobile Suit Gundam UC was a colossal waste of everyone's time... both in-universe and out.


Deacon Blues wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:04 pm
Furthermore, scholars also speculate that Newtypes are an ideology that they can recognize but from an academic point of view not so much (basically the deep kindness and insight they possess is sorta BS from a scholarly level). If they draw on the teachings of Deikun then Newtypes are a far cry away since they're often synonymous with expert shots and Cyber-Newtypes are something else entirely.
You can hardly blame the scholars... look what they had for a Newtype sample population.

Complete psychopath Casval Rem "don't mind me while I drop these asteroids on you" Deikun alias Char Aznable, notorious recluse Amuro Ray, Camille "is a boy's name!" Bidan, kleptomaniac dimwit Judau Ashta, Banagher "Wet Blanket" Links, and a laundry list of insane Zeon newtypes, cyber-newtypes, and other crazies. Zeon Deikun was not exactly playing with a full deck either... it's a small miracle scholars in the UC don't just start hysterically giggling when someone brings up Deikun's newtype theory.


Deacon Blues wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:04 pm
Cue Spacenoid First movements, etc. I can see Newtypes dying out after this, honestly. People who possess the power sort of being afraid to come forward because of everything that happened. I think NT illustrated the horrors of testing on potential Newtypes enough that little public knowledge over it instilled enough fear.
That wouldn't lead to Newtypes themselves dying out... just going underground to avoid being subjected to the kind of horrific human experimentation that created people like Plu Twelve.
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Re: Speculating about what could have happened to Newtype between Unicorn and F91?

Post by False Prophet » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:17 am

Didn't the MSV-R manga show that Cyber-Newtypes were orginally thought by Zeon not as people with pre-cognitive abilities, but only people with augmented physical, mental and sensory systems? Can we presume that is more closer to Zeon Deikum's vision of Newtypes?

And, hypothetically, what if cybernetics and genetic manipulations become more widespread in UC, do you think most people would want the pre-cognitive/telepathy abilities of Cyber-Newtypes, or just being stronger and more beautiful than they are just now? Are being Newtypes really that desirable from an evolutionary standpoint?

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Re: Speculating about what could have happened to Newtype between Unicorn and F91?

Post by Seto Kaiba » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:40 am

False Prophet wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:17 am
And, hypothetically, what if cybernetics and genetic manipulations become more widespread in UC, do you think most people would want the pre-cognitive/telepathy abilities of Cyber-Newtypes, or just being stronger and more beautiful than they are just now? Are being Newtypes really that desirable from an evolutionary standpoint?
Newtypes don't have precognitive abilities... their empathic senses are just especially good at detecting the hostile intentions of others directed at themselves.

Zeon Deikun's concept of the "Newtype" had already been so thoroughly warped by UC 0096 that it was synonymous with "mentally unstable super soldier" more than anything. My guess would be that the Earth Federation would ban civilian augmentations (genetic or cybernetic) aimed at reproducing the abilities of the Newtypes for fear that they would end up as super soldiers in the next war with the spacenoids. The well-documented mental instability of the artificial Newtypes produced by the Federation and Zeon would probably be enough to put most people off the idea entirely if the social stigma associated with "Newtypes = supersoldiers" didn't do the job.
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Re: Speculating about what could have happened to Newtype between Unicorn and F91?

Post by BrentD15 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:34 pm

hitokirigarou wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:12 am
Seto Kaiba wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 2:50 pm
That manga's epilogue did note they reached and colonized Proxima Centauri in UC 0653.
Then they created the Turn X?
Wouldn't that be hilarious. :lol:
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