Was the Taurus mobile suit a suitable replacement...?

[Iruga]

I was thinking about Gundam Wing OZ MS genealogy and began comparing the Taurus to the space Leo and the Aries. You drop so much versatility when moving to the new platform that I'm not sure it makes sense. I get the MD System is able to make 100% use of the machines capability but still.

[Seto Kaiba]

The Taurus always struck me as a vastly more capable MS than either the Leo or the Aries.

It's more compact, more agile, and at least as well armed as either of the machines it replaced... plus it has that higher performance, can transform for faster independent movement, and has a variant that can operate as an unmanned MS and accomplish risky operations without risking the lives of soldiers.

It's still made of explodium because everything in Gundam Wing is, but it definitely seemed to me to be a massive step up.

[yazi88]

There is the very rare time that the Taurus was equipped with beam saber, atleast on the Sanc Kingdom version...

Taurus has actual speed and manuverability something lacking in pretty much all other mass produced units outside of the Aries which itself was pretty meh. You only see the large beam cannon being used maybe less than 5 times in the TV show?

I laugh when I see the so called laser gun on the Taurus which is just a cut and paste of the Earth Federation GM Bullup machine gun from Gundam 0080 and 0083.

[MythSearcher]

I was thinking about Gundam Wing OZ MS genealogy and began comparing the Taurus to the space Leo and the Aries. You drop so much versatility when moving to the new platform that I'm not sure it makes sense. I get the MD System is able to make 100% use of the machines capability but still.

Why?
The Leo is the baseline of everything, the 5 stats of it are set as the reference at 100 each.
The Aries also had an average of 100(500 total)

The Aries is also not very comparable because it is the only one lacking a beam rifle. Seriously. The fire power of this unit is hardly 90 compared to even the Leo's 100.

The average of the Taurus is 111, so it is at least 11% better than both the Leo and Aries.(and we all know it is more like 33%+ in show even when used by faceless off screen pilots when against the Leo or Aries)
Considering it can also transform and focus its stats on a certain performance and can still maintain that 11% better stats, the tech used in it should be vastly superior to Leo since the transformation mechanics must be a bunch of dead weight in both forms without contributing to actual performance.
It also seems to be an inexpensive and reliable unit, and good enough for a normal human pilot since smaller nations like the Sanc Kingdom also used the unit.

Notice that it is also the only grunt unit suriving to AC197 EW event.(yes I know Leo and Aries is still being used else where, but not where the main action is.

[Iruga]

I was thinking about Gundam Wing OZ MS genealogy and began comparing the Taurus to the space Leo and the Aries. You drop so much versatility when moving to the new platform that I'm not sure it makes sense. I get the MD System is able to make 100% use of the machines capability but still.

Why?
The Leo is the baseline of everything, the 5 stats of it are set as the reference at 100 each.
The Aries also had an average of 100(500 total)

The Aries is also not very comparable because it is the only one lacking a beam rifle. Seriously. The fire power of this unit is hardly 90 compared to even the Leo's 100.

The average of the Taurus is 111, so it is at least 11% better than both the Leo and Aries.(and we all know it is more like 33%+ in show even when used by faceless off screen pilots when against the Leo or Aries)
Considering it can also transform and focus its stats on a certain performance and can still maintain that 11% better stats, the tech used in it should be vastly superior to Leo since the transformation mechanics must be a bunch of dead weight in both forms without contributing to actual performance.
It also seems to be an inexpensive and reliable unit, and good enough for a normal human pilot since smaller nations like the Sanc Kingdom also used the unit.

Notice that it is also the only grunt unit suriving to AC197 EW event.(yes I know Leo and Aries is still being used else where, but not where the main action is.

I get that it's a higher performance machine, however the downside to this is that it has a major drop in versatility. The Taurus's standard equipment is simply a beam rifle. It can optionally carry a beam cannon or beam sabre but this was far from the norm.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the only reason it excels is because of the MD System. Outside of that use case I'd take the Space Leo.

Also as a side note I wouldn't use the GW stat figures to justify anything, I'm not even really sure why they were created in the first place.

[yazi88]

Space Leo is quite worse than the Taurus. Almost all the time its either equipped with a machine gun or a beam rifle, doberguns are rarely used. Beam sabers are almost never used either for the Leo unless a Gundam pilot/Treize is piloting one. It has a shield but that isn't too effective either. Leo versatility doesn't really mean much, its a 20 year old design with few upgrades/customization options available outside the very rare beam cannon one which doesn't seem that effective or the bare minimal space back to even function in space because the Leo by itself barely has any thrusters, it only WALKS everywhere outside of the one time we see a flight pack Leo on Earth.

[False Prophet]

I do think that even without the infamous "Leo explodes without being hit", WIng still underplayed the performance of a lot of the mass-production suits. The Virgo could had done better, and I am on the fence about the Cancer.

[yazi88]

Problem with Wing is that the choreography was bad with mass production mobile suits, the Gundams were too flashy and far too overpowered. You could see some cool stuff but mostly in Gundam vs Gundam fights or Gundam vs Tallgeese ones. MP ones? Nope.

[Seto Kaiba]

I do think that even without the infamous "Leo explodes without being hit", WIng still underplayed the performance of a lot of the mass-production suits.

How do you figure? That they were deliberately reduced-capability derivatives of the Tallgeese was pretty much their entire development history. The only time they don't suck compared to the super prototypes is when they've got plot armor, which is par for the course not underplaying them.

[MythSearcher]

I get that it's a higher performance machine, however the downside to this is that it has a major drop in versatility. The Taurus's standard equipment is simply a beam rifle. It can optionally carry a beam cannon or beam sabre but this was far from the norm.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the only reason it excels is because of the MD System. Outside of that use case I'd take the Space Leo.

Also as a side note I wouldn't use the GW stat figures to justify anything, I'm not even really sure why they were created in the first place.

I don't think the weapon is a major issue here. The standard issue beam rifle basically excels against most of the Leo's weapons, maybe not the Dober gun but it is quite obvious that if a regular Leo or Aries can just use Wing's Buster Rifle without any modifications, the Taurus is very likely to be able to use the Dober gun of not only the Leo, but also even the Tallgeese's. The Dober gun isn't the Leo's main arsenal selection to begin with, it is pretty much like the beam cannon of Taurus.

So a straight comparison of weapons goes like this:
Taurus = Leo
beam rifle = beam rifle
laser gun = 105mm rifle/short beam rifle
beam cannon = dober gun/bazooka (You can also count the beam cannon of the Leo Cannon variants)
beam sabre = beam sabre

The Leo seems to have more selection of weapons because it has a long history and the main stay weapon was non-beam weapons. It also went through the process of switching to beam weaponry, while the Taurus had equivalent beam weaponry from the start.

[Iruga]

I get that it's a higher performance machine, however the downside to this is that it has a major drop in versatility. The Taurus's standard equipment is simply a beam rifle. It can optionally carry a beam cannon or beam sabre but this was far from the norm.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the only reason it excels is because of the MD System. Outside of that use case I'd take the Space Leo.

Also as a side note I wouldn't use the GW stat figures to justify anything, I'm not even really sure why they were created in the first place.

I don't think the weapon is a major issue here. The standard issue beam rifle basically excels against most of the Leo's weapons, maybe not the Dober gun but it is quite obvious that if a regular Leo or Aries can just use Wing's Buster Rifle without any modifications, the Taurus is very likely to be able to use the Dober gun of not only the Leo, but also even the Tallgeese's. The Dober gun isn't the Leo's main arsenal selection to begin with, it is pretty much like the beam cannon of Taurus.

So a straight comparison of weapons goes like this:
Taurus = Leo
beam rifle = beam rifle
laser gun = 105mm rifle/short beam rifle
beam cannon = dober gun/bazooka (You can also count the beam cannon of the Leo Cannon variants)
beam sabre = beam sabre

The Leo seems to have more selection of weapons because it has a long history and the main stay weapon was non-beam weapons. It also went through the process of switching to beam weaponry, while the Taurus had equivalent beam weaponry from the start.

My point on versatility is not about what each MS is able to equip, but rather a nod to how many weapons they can equip at any one time. What I'm saying is, I would prefer a Leo that can simultaneously equip a shield, beam sabres, atmo/space flightpack, shoulder mounted beam cannon and a beam rifle over the Taurus with slightly higher performance and a choice of a beam rifle, beam sabres or beam cannon.

Even the Aries can attach missile pods to its hard-points for greater weapon selection.

I'd like to say I'm not oblivious to how old the Leo, but considering the Tallgeese is just not that much of a concern. Especially since the Leo has proven itself to be a very modular MS.

[MythSearcher]

My point on versatility is not about what each MS is able to equip, but rather a nod to how many weapons they can equip at any one time. What I'm saying is, I would prefer a Leo that can simultaneously equip a shield, beam sabres, atmo/space flightpack, shoulder mounted beam cannon and a beam rifle over the Taurus with slightly higher performance and a choice of a beam rifle, beam sabres or beam cannon.

Even the Aries can attach missile pods to its hard-points for greater weapon selection.

I'd like to say I'm not oblivious to how old the Leo, but considering the Tallgeese is just not that much of a concern. Especially since the Leo has proven itself to be a very modular MS.

I believe you can still equip the beam cannon to the hard point on Taurus' back while hand wielding the beam rifle or sabre.
I am also pretty sure that the Taurus can just pick up a Leo's shield and use it with the beam rifle, both are single handed equipment.
Equipping tons of equipment just isn't going to be effective though, you are carrying more mass and thus you will move, turn, aim slower, which the Leo isn't really great in to begin with.
Also, logistics for the Taurus streamlined weapons is much better. You don't need as many spare parts for them like the many Leo weapons, different calibre ammo is not a concern(Notice Leo needs at least the 105mm round and the Dober gun round)
Less weapons also mean less manual for your maintenance crew, likely faster maintenance time and less likely to be out of parts.(Same storage area, more parts for each weapons when you have 3 instead of 10 different weapons)

The Leo may have the advantage of being a cheaper unit, but the cost performance of it in an era with so many newer and more powerful models is just going to be pretty bad. Think of it this way, when the whole world is at least using the I-16 and most are using something like the P-51 or better, unless you really have a great surplus of pilots, you probably want to use the P-51 instead of buying 20% more of I-16s. I don't think equipping the I-16 with more weapons really helps that much. Similar story here, if you are out ranged, out-speed and out classed, having 4 more guns/missiles strapped to you making you even slower isn't helping.
The Leo is the baseline, meaning you really can't find a unit inferior to it any more.

The Taurus can operate in space to begin with, so it does not need to equip an additional backpack and thus is actually more versatile in this sense, you can pilot one in the atmosphere, land on a launch rocket, and when the rocket reaches orbit or whatever space it has to combat, just fly out and start fighting. While the Leo has to change its backpack(or at least equip the space pack) to do so. Or possibly with an entry shield equipped, it can perform combat before and after reentry.
Also, since the Leo isn't designed for air and space combat, its performance is just going to drop further, while the Taurus, at least theoretically, is designed for both and can maintain its designed performance.

Other than the strange design (Yes, I do not like the Taurus sharp head and shoulders, it is not even aerodynamic) and the realistically impractical transformation mechanism, the Taurus is surely a better unit in most aspects if you stick to the specs and common sense.

[Kuruni]

I do think that even without the infamous "Leo explodes without being hit", WIng still underplayed the performance of a lot of the mass-production suits. The Virgo could had done better, and I am on the fence about the Cancer.

Soemwhat off-topic. But if we stick to performance on screen and ignore how their spec say, I think Windam has dethroned Leo as The King of Suckiness .

[Tezcatli]

I think so. It's able to transform into a more aerodynamic form than the Aries. Which means it's likely also faster and more fuel efficient in the air. While it might lack missile pods, doesn't seem like it would be difficult to adapt something for it's use. And why even bother using it on the ground when it can fly and uses a beam rifle? There's a reason why tanks are vulnerable to aircraft and helicopters.

The only saving grace for the Leo is probably the huge stockpiles of them all over the world. And the wider variety of extra equipment available to it. But it's cost effectiveness value is quickly diminished as far more effective designs become available.

And in space the Taurus is hands down better than the Leo. Even though the Leo has the option for a beam rifle, it doesn't seem as potent as the one the Taurus is equipped with.

[yazi88]

Even on Earth the Taurus is better cause it can transform and fly. I'm guessing it can maneuver around too since it has actual thrusters on its body, so a rocket assisted jump is possible, although that's only if its retooled for Earth use.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

The Leo compared to the Taurus is basically like the Zaku II compared to Zeta era transformable MS.

[MythSearcher]

Even on Earth the Taurus is better cause it can transform and fly. I'm guessing it can maneuver around too since it has actual thrusters on its body, so a rocket assisted jump is possible, although that's only if its retooled for Earth use.

And we see a lot of Taurus' working in the atmosphere with its thrusters on. I guess the retool isn't hard and may even be standard.