F89 Gundam F89 Notes

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Omega
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F89 Gundam F89 Notes

Post by Omega » Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:40 am

Er, I found pics of the Gundam F89 with art and info on the machine in what I hope is a good bit of detail, contributing this in the hopes of it getting translated

F89 Info 1
F89 Info 2

Seems a bit SEED-ish with how it swaps backpacks, but could someone translate the details?

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Re: F89 Gundam F89 Notes

Post by False Prophet » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:52 am

I have heard some rumors abound that the F89 was the pinnacle of full-size MS design before they moved into miniaturizing. Hope that someone could translate these pictures and provide a definite answer to these rumors.

Also, is there anything special about post-100 U.C. warfare that demanded the development of modular equipment packages? Or did S.R.N.I just run with the idea?

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Re: F89 Gundam F89 Notes

Post by Seto Kaiba » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:43 am

Omega wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:40 am
Seems a bit SEED-ish with how it swaps backpacks, but could someone translate the details?
I can take a whack at it later this evening... it'll be a good test for some new tools that just arrived.
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Re: F89 Gundam F89 Notes

Post by Omega » Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:28 pm

Ooh thanks Kaiba xD

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Re: F89 Gundam F89 Notes

Post by Seto Kaiba » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:08 pm

Omega wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:28 pm
Ooh thanks Kaiba xD
Sorry for the slight delay... the learning curve on my new translation support tools is kind of a squarewave.

Anyhoo... the juicy bits you've waited for are:
The author wrote:The F89 is an 18m-class Mobile Suit manufactured by SNRI for verification experiments, and the F90 was manufactured with the idea of downsizing this machine. For SNRI who had no experience with Mobile Suit manufacturing, suddenly manufacturing a small MS was a high technological hurdle and it was initially necessary to manufacture the Mobile Suit at the current state of technology (although it's a digression, the designation of F89 is a codename issued internally [by SNRI] because the completed body was F90 and it has nothing to do with F8-number production machines allocated by the Federation after the F90's completion). Therefore, although the frame itself is a new design, it is a [exhausted/a waste], all the parts are characterized by being available from Anaheim. Moreover, since it aimed at the highest performance as an 18m-class Mobile Suit at the time of its production, it is said that at the time of the F90's production the F89 could not be fully reproduced at the smaller size and was abandoned, so some of the parts exceed the performance of the F90's. Overall, it is said to be better than the F90 and worse than the F91.

Since the F89 repeats battle simulations for data collection, two units were produced. The coloring of the units was blue and red. In addition, there were curved antenna and straight antenna, with the objective to distinguish them by visual observation at a distance. There are records that six units worth of replacement parts were manufactured at the beginning, and four additional units worth of replacement parts were produced before the completion of the F90 (although some were supposed to have been exhausted at the time, if the remainder still existed, it can be said there is enough room for supplementation). In addition, the design philosophy that it corresponds to every battle station with the exchange of backpacks is fixed at this stage, and high mobility type and long-range shooting type backpacks are made as an experimental production. Of course, with an identical frame, both anchors can be replaced. The long-range shooting type pack is a prototype by what would become BESPA, but it is a completely failed design at this stage, a defective item which stops working when after three shots.
Not sure what the "Anchors" stuff is about... Japanese wiki suggests it's a spec of the F89.

All told, nothing particularly interesting said. It's the usual short technical description bugaboo of mostly just stating the obvious.
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Re: F89 Gundam F89 Notes

Post by yazi88 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:00 pm

I guess it omits the details from Unicorn that SNRI did develop the Loto which pretty much is the 1st downsized MS as it was still in the late 0090s which most things were still in the large MS era up to the incoming Hathaway's Flash...

Although I'm not sure whether the F70 Cannon Gundam was developed before the F-89 since that was the prototype to the mass produced F-71 G-Cannon although the G Cannon was manufactured by Anaheim... Going by the model number there is a good chance the F-70 came out before the F-89, but Hasegawa likes to add in his weird designs too..

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Re: F89 Gundam F89 Notes

Post by False Prophet » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:33 pm

So basically the F90 is just a rehash of the F89 with the aim of improving miniaturization and modular equipment packages, right? But what exactly makes those two options so new that SRNI had to make another testbed in the form of the F90? They had already made the Loto and F-71, while the idea of modular parts existed as far as the G-Line.

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Re: F89 Gundam F89 Notes

Post by Deacon Blues » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:12 am

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:08 pm
Omega wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:28 pm
Ooh thanks Kaiba xD
Sorry for the slight delay... the learning curve on my new translation support tools is kind of a squarewave.
I cringe to ask what support tools that'd be...

The mechanical blurb is referring to resupplying the Anchor, the titular mobile suit from Cross Born Dust.

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Re: F89 Gundam F89 Notes

Post by E08 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:51 am

yazi88 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:00 pm
Although I'm not sure whether the F70 Cannon Gundam was developed before the F-89 since that was the prototype to the mass produced F-71 G-Cannon although the G Cannon was manufactured by Anaheim...
False Prophet wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:33 pm
So basically the F90 is just a rehash of the F89 with the aim of improving miniaturization and modular equipment packages, right? But what exactly makes those two options so new that SRNI had to make another testbed in the form of the F90? They had already made the Loto and F-71, while the idea of modular parts existed as far as the G-Line.
The F71 G-Cannon was developed after F90 Gundam (Specifically F90 S (Support) Type) with the F70 Cannon Gundam being the intermediate unit. This is mentioned here and here.

Interestingly, although Loto is the first down sized MS developed by SNRI, its small size is actually a demand made by EFSF/ECOAS. It is only after Loto's success, did the SNRI decided to explore/research further into small size MS.

A major factor for Loto's small size is the SNRI managing to further miniaturize the MS reactor, but the output of this reactor is only a mere 980kw, similar to that of a Zaku II but much lower than the usual MS reactor output of UC.0090s. While the Loto is quite capable in MS combat, the ECOAS still had other MS more suited for the task, this may hint at some sort of weakness that the Loto has in this area.

The above is just two examples of the issues with the Loto, there might be more problems the SNRI faced in down sizing which resulted in them deciding to develop the F89 and F90 as an attempt to know more and discover possible solutions. Overall, while Loto is the first down sized MS, it might not be a perfect/complete down sizing of modern MS.

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Re: F89 Gundam F89 Notes

Post by Seto Kaiba » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:28 pm

False Prophet wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:33 pm
So basically the F90 is just a rehash of the F89 with the aim of improving miniaturization and modular equipment packages, right?
The way it was described, the F89 Gundam F89 sounds like it was a development mule that SNRI hacked together out of "off the shelf" Anaheim Electronics parts to prove out the basic F90 design before proceeding with plans to manufacture the prototype F90s as the intended (smaller) scale. Some compromises apparently had to be made with overall performance to accommodate the miniaturization, so the F90s were slightly less capable than their larger predecessor.

False Prophet wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:33 pm
But what exactly makes those two options so new that SRNI had to make another testbed in the form of the F90? They had already made the Loto and F-71, while the idea of modular parts existed as far as the G-Line.
The F7 series came later, based on what others are saying. (This is not a part of the Gundam UC timeline I am particularly familiar with...)

The F89 was there to prove the feasibility of the overall design, while the F90 was always the design-intent plan of record. It wasn't that they made the F89 and decided they had to do another... it was that they always meant to do the F90, and decided to make the F89 first to find out where the problems would be.



Deacon Blues wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:12 am
I cringe to ask what support tools that'd be...
Oh, the team I've recruited for the new Macross website I'm launching later this year is experimenting with an OCR-based "digital highlighter" to automatically transcribe the text from the publications we're working on into our cloud-based collaboration suite so we can divvy up large publications without having chop old and rare books up to scan, buying a half-dozen copies, or mailing publications to each other.

This was a good excuse to give it a try on something small before we move on to tackling those tech manuals that SoftBank has been publishing. In practice, it's incredibly effective... once you get past the OCR hardware being a finicky b*tch.

Deacon Blues wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:12 am
The mechanical blurb is referring to resupplying the Anchor, the titular mobile suit from Cross Born Dust.
I've never read that one, so it's news to me.
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Re: F89 Gundam F89 Notes

Post by Deacon Blues » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:15 pm

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:28 pm
Oh, the team I've recruited for the new Macross website I'm launching later this year is experimenting with an OCR-based "digital highlighter" to automatically transcribe the text from the publications we're working on into our cloud-based collaboration suite so we can divvy up large publications without having chop old and rare books up to scan, buying a half-dozen copies, or mailing publications to each other.

This was a good excuse to give it a try on something small before we move on to tackling those tech manuals that SoftBank has been publishing. In practice, it's incredibly effective... once you get past the OCR hardware being a finicky b*tch.
Ah, yeah... OCR software can be an asset or a hindrance sometimes. Always amuses me how it transcribes some simple characters poorly. By the time you finish correcting the errors you couldn't transcribed everything yourself (and this was toying around with one of the top of the line softwares too). I guess I'm so used to transcribing everything myself that it beats any sort of program :lol:

Then again, I'm also accustomed to buying multiple copies of Gundam books (one to make a digital version and the other to have in physical form) it's second nature. Only 40% more of printed material to collect and my collection will be complete :lol:

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Re: F89 Gundam F89 Notes

Post by Seto Kaiba » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:42 pm

Deacon Blues wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:15 pm
Ah, yeah... OCR software can be an asset or a hindrance sometimes. Always amuses me how it transcribes some simple characters poorly. By the time you finish correcting the errors you couldn't transcribed everything yourself (and this was toying around with one of the top of the line softwares too). I guess I'm so used to transcribing everything myself that it beats any sort of program :lol:
This is my second flirtation with OCR tools as a translator. The first time was about eleven years ago when I built an OCR tool to do transcription for me because my handwriting in any language is atrocious so Input Method Editor that I'd been using had frequently dissolved into digital hysterics trying to figure out what kanji I was drawing. Now it's a matter more of me being a cheapskate and not wanting to buy six copies of every book and ship them all over hell's half-acre (several members of my team are on other continents) and not wanting to mess around with the SoftBank bad habit of using like a 4pt font for marginal notes and image captions.


Deacon Blues wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:15 pm
Then again, I'm also accustomed to buying multiple copies of Gundam books (one to make a digital version and the other to have in physical form) it's second nature. Only 40% more of printed material to collect and my collection will be complete :lol:
I usually buy two copies of Macross books for similar purposes, though since we intend to publish translations we're not also publishing scans for legal reasons.
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Re: F89 Gundam F89 Notes

Post by Omega » Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:59 am

So reading that translation... a rough interpretation of the F89 is that it was basically built at the same time as the F90, using Anaheim parts to help iron out kinks in the F90's design?

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Re: F89 Gundam F89 Notes

Post by Seto Kaiba » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:35 am

Omega wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:59 am
So reading that translation... a rough interpretation of the F89 is that it was basically built at the same time as the F90, using Anaheim parts to help iron out kinks in the F90's design?
Not at the same time, no.

SNRI's engineers had the mostly-complete production intent design for the F90 Gundam F90, but they weren't ready (or able?) to manufacture a Mobile Suit at the smaller 15m scale the F90's plans called for at the time. So SNRI had the F89 built as an 18m test scale version of the F90 using as many pre-existing parts as possible so they could start testing the design and various experimental features that were under consideration before an actual F90 unit could be manufactured. Data collected during the F89's tests was used to refine the design of the F90, though due to the difference in scale some parts could not be faithfully reproduced at the smaller size and resulted in the F90 having reduced performance compared to the F89. This was corrected on the F91.

To borrow a term from my day job, the F89 was the F90's mule version used for testing prior to SNRI building a more production-representative prototype.
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Re: F89 Gundam F89 Notes

Post by False Prophet » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:14 am

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:35 am

To borrow a term from my day job, the F89 was the F90's mule version used for testing prior to SNRI building a more production-representative prototype.
Since you live in Detroit, I take that you're an automobile engineer?

And you said that SRNI purchased parts from Anaheim to build the F89. Considering the time it was created, should we presume that these parts actually came from the Heaygun? In this case, were SRNI panicked that Anaheim was able to rollout a miniature mass-production MS before them?

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Re: F89 Gundam F89 Notes

Post by E08 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:05 am

False Prophet wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:14 am
Considering the time it was created, should we presume that these parts actually came from the Heaygun? In this case, were SRNI panicked that Anaheim was able to rollout a miniature mass-production MS before them?
For the first question, it is worth considering if the Heavygun's parts is compatible with F89 in the first place. Remember Heavygun is a miniature MS, while F89 is a still the old fashioned 18m MS.

As for the second question, the answer seems to be not really. The japanese wiki noted the Heavgun's performance did not meet EFF's expectation, and therefore its appearance had no impact on EFF and SNRI's relations. In fact, it is Heavygun's failure to meet expectation that prompted SNRI to start on the F90 series.

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Re: F89 Gundam F89 Notes

Post by Seto Kaiba » Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:03 am

False Prophet wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:14 am
Since you live in Detroit, I take that you're an automobile engineer?
Yeah, a powertrain networks engineer supporting forward-model and experimental vehicle development.


False Prophet wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:14 am
And you said that SRNI purchased parts from Anaheim to build the F89. Considering the time it was created, should we presume that these parts actually came from the Heaygun? In this case, were SRNI panicked that Anaheim was able to rollout a miniature mass-production MS before them?
The F89 is an 18m-class Mobile Suit, so presumably the parts SNRI obtained were for a contemporary 18m-class suit that was in common use like the RGM-89J/M Jegan.
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Re: F89 Gundam F89 Notes

Post by yazi88 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:54 pm

So just to make sure, this is a Hasegawa original unit then rather than something mentioned previous model kits/reference guides?

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Re: F89 Gundam F89 Notes

Post by Seto Kaiba » Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:29 am

yazi88 wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:54 pm
So just to make sure, this is a Hasegawa original unit then rather than something mentioned previous model kits/reference guides?
I was given to understand the F89 Gundam F89 was created for the Mobile Suit Crossbone Gundam Dust manga (as an explanation for the Anchor) and was finally illustrated in the August '18 issue of Gundam Ace.
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Re: F89 Gundam F89 Notes

Post by False Prophet » Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:43 am

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:29 am
I was given to understand the F89 Gundam F89 was created for the Mobile Suit Crossbone Gundam Dust manga (as an explanation for the Anchor) and was finally illustrated in the August '18 issue of Gundam Ace.
It first showed up on my radar at the middle of last year, I think, and made quite a discussion among those few people whom I know have been following Crossbone Dust. That and the Easy Victory (?), some kind of Gun-EZ with the head of a Victory Gundam (how many Gun-EZ and Victory Gundam do you think actually survive the Zanscare War?)

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