Share your Gundam facts!

[MythSearcher]

Funny thing is looking at the specs, EWAC Nero has the best sensor range for a EWAC unit... 6250000 meters compared to the 38400 meters of the EWAC Jegan... but the Jegan does have a camera on it so maybe that is better for sending info back quicker? And the EWAC Jegan actually has armaments too for combat too...

Don't have materials at hand, but it seems like only the EWAC Nero has the wired camera that can potentially fly that kind of distance? The other two somehow removed the wire. Using laser transmittion might be less effective and required more propellant to recover the camera and thus greatly reduced the operation distance.(Or maybe the camera unit became fixated to the unit and cannot be remotely controlled at all.

[False Prophet]

Say, how many years were there between the development of the Nero and the Jegan? Could they had been able to produced the 1870 kW generator of the Jegan way before, but chose not to put it into the Nero and instead chose a 1650 kW? And in general, as the years gone by, is the price to pay for mass-producing fusion reactor negatively proportion to the output (A.K.A before the whole miniaturization thing, the more modern a mass-production MS is, the more output it has?)

Thinking about this gives me a better appreciation of the Nu Gundam. It only has a 2980 kW output, less than its opponent the Sazabi as well as the ZZ and S Gundam (it beats the Zeta Gundam, though), and yet seeing its performance on-screen, you can not help but to think that Amuro has created an elegant design that squeeze out every potential of that generator.

[False Prophet]

Say, how many years were there between the development of the Nero and the Jegan? Could they had been able to produced the 1870 kW generator of the Jegan way before, but chose not to put it into the Nero and instead chose a 1650 kW? And in general, as the years gone by, is the price to pay for mass-producing fusion reactor negatively proportion to the output (A.K.A before the whole miniaturization thing, the more modern a mass-production MS is, the more output it has?)

Thinking about this gives me a better appreciation of the Nu Gundam. It only has a 2980 kW output, less than its opponent the Sazabi as well as the ZZ and S Gundam (it beats the Zeta Gundam, though), and yet seeing its performance on-screen, you can not help but to think that Amuro has created an elegant design that squeezed out every bit potential of that generator.

[yazi88]

Say, how many years were there between the development of the Nero and the Jegan? Could they had been able to produced the 1870 kW generator of the Jegan way before, but chose not to put it into the Nero and instead chose a 1650 kW? And in general, as the years gone by, is the price to pay for mass-producing fusion reactor negatively proportion to the output (A.K.A before the whole miniaturization thing, the more modern a mass-production MS is, the more output it has?)

Thinking about this gives me a better appreciation of the Nu Gundam. It only has a 2980 kW output, less than its opponent the Sazabi as well as the ZZ and S Gundam (it beats the Zeta Gundam, though), and yet seeing its performance on-screen, you can not help but to think that Amuro has created an elegant design that squeeze out every potential of that generator.

For GM series their model number is usually the indication when development started. RGM-79 was developed and rolled out in 0079. RGM-86R GM III judging from the model number development/blueprints likely started around 0086 but the unit itself rolled out in 0088. Rollouts of GM related units after the GM II are years after their model number. Heavygun, Jamesgun and Javelin all came out quite some years after their model number in terms of being mass produced on a large scale. While this is a manga so it might not count, Gundam Climax UC had the main protagonist, once a young man in the Federation during the OYW, now a old man during the attack at Frontier 4 in F91, pilot a RGM-122 JAVELIN prototype that was still being tested at the time, and that was in UC 123...

As for the Nero and Jegan... the generator strength was good enough to use beam rifles and that's about it. They don't need a more powerful generator around that time as they don't use any high powered beam weapons. Yeah the higher generator strength helps but the main aspect is to power the weapons in UC. Jegan itself even with all its variations before the early UC 110s doesn't use any other beam weapons aside from dual wielding beam rifles at times.

The high reactor strength of the ZZ was necessary to power its very powerful and power hungry beam weapons that are fixed on. Zeta Gundam and Nu Gundam don't really have as many heavy beam weapons compared to the juggernauts heavy firepower units in the 1st Neo Zeon War like Geymalk, Doven Wolf, Quin Mantha and ZZ Gundam...
S Gundam is also in that category too. Sazabi has a higher reactor because of its torso beam cannon.

Nu Gundam's fin funnels have their own reactor. And its good enough to power its beam rifle and its built in beam cannon in its shield. Same thing with the Zeta and its beam rifle and hyper mega launcher. Even Unicorn's reactor strength isn't really much different from Nu Gundam. Its beam magnum uses cartridge rounds so it doesn't use any power from its reactor. Narrative Gundam has about the same reactor strength as Nu Gundam, its extra equipment have their own reactors/external power so it doesn't place burden on the unit.

[MythSearcher]

Say, how many years were there between the development of the Nero and the Jegan? Could they had been able to produced the 1870 kW generator of the Jegan way before, but chose not to put it into the Nero and instead chose a 1650 kW? And in general, as the years gone by, is the price to pay for mass-producing fusion reactor negatively proportion to the output (A.K.A before the whole miniaturization thing, the more modern a mass-production MS is, the more output it has?)

Nero rolled out in 0088, which place it as the same generation as GM III instead of Jegan.
That said, GM III development started in 0086 according to it's numbering.
I am a bit skeptical Nero development started at the same time as GM III.
With the R being there in the RGM-86R numbering of GM III, since the suffix usually means a modified version, but we never see an RGM-86 and only RGM-86Rs.
Completely fan speculating and my own hypothesis, the GM III might have entered some kind of development problem (either technical or political, or both), which likely delayed its roll out time and resulted in the development of Nero, a completely new unit, and the Nouvel GM III, units that are newly built instead of modified from existing GM IIs.

The frame of GM II, which was upgraded from the GM, obviously isn't fitted for the era. Considering the 2nd generation MS isn't really a big thing in 0086(though related technologies like the movable frame, linear seat/paranomic cockpit were popping up here and there), it may not be a problem at the start of the development of the GM III. It likely became a serious issue during 0087 where 2nd generation MSs came out like weekly magazines. I don't see EFF responding too quickly about this (Gryps war is a civil war to begin with), and likely kept the GM III development going, but requested higher specs. AE likely first responded with integrating the Gundam Mk-II backpack to it, which isn't an AE developmet to begin with and they didn't have the unit to inspect before 0087 anyway.
AE second respond is likely the Nouvel GM III, which used the Nemo reactor to save costs(I mean, all those generator production lines can be kept) and the Nemo's reactor is also a reflection of power saving technologies.(Even with only 1620kW, it can still use all of Rick Dias' weapons, which needed 1833kW output)
Third respond is quickly develop something that catches the eye of EFF so they might be able to get out of the development problem, which resulted in the Nero.
Luckily, the higher-ups likely didn't really care and Nero itself also ran into develoment problems with the New De-sides popping up and destroying a bunch of rolled out Nero along with S Gundam, completely ruining the project series.

(Fun fact, both the Nouvel GM III and Nero needed double exhaust slits in the chest while Nemo didn't, which sensable conclusion is Nemo has a heating problem.)

Thinking about this gives me a better appreciation of the Nu Gundam. It only has a 2980 kW output, less than its opponent the Sazabi as well as the ZZ and S Gundam (it beats the Zeta Gundam, though), and yet seeing its performance on-screen, you can not help but to think that Amuro has created an elegant design that squeezed out every bit potential of that generator.

The design focus is different.
ZZ and S are both heavy artillery units, Sazabi is also more fire power oriented than Nu(see weapon power ratings)
Their roles will be more like heavy bombers(ZZ, S, and in Ex-S and S[Bst], Strike Bombers), attacker(Sazabi) and fighter(Nu).
The roles aren't exact since space combat is different than aerial combat, but both ZZ and S has multiple high power weapons stomping every MS on the field, Sazabi isn't as much but still relatively high against others. These units all have a larger frame and heavier armour than others(actually, they don't really have much more armour, Sazabi's larger built is likely rendering its average armour thickness to be less). Nu, on the other hand, is much closer to other regular units in terms of built and fire power, and it relies heavily on Fin Funnels, which has a small output but is good enough for intervention and confusing targets.

[Gelgoog Jager]

I think I posted this elsewhere, but I suspect that the EF/Titans intended to mass produce RGM-86 units at Gryps at one point:

-The Gryps was alreadyserving as the Titans base by the start of Zeta, with the Dogosse Gier being built inside one of the colonies and the Mk II being tested as well.
-Most importantly, despite the aforementioned facts pointing towards Gryps being tightly under the Titans control, production lines for the RMS-179 are also set there.
-Throughout the series the Titans never actually use GM II units, with some of their pilots even shown to be regular EF soldiers. Which makes odd the decision to produce new GM II units at Gryps.
-The RX-178 is rolled out in December 0086, which means that it’s old EF model number could have been RX-86. It’s worth pointing out that the unit is still technically not complete, as its old style titanium ceramic armor is meant to be replaced with better materials.

My guess is that the RMS-179 production lines are built there worth the expectation that a GM III can be produced on them, in the form of GM II units upgraded with data gathered from the testing of the Gundam Mk II, which might have become a RMS-179R or similar.

In other words, I suspect that new RMS-179 GM IIs are being produced at Gryps with the purpose of having them ready for a later upgrade based on feedback from the Gundam Mk II, which would result in a MS more suitable for the Titans’ needs, whom are the ones testing the RX-178 units already anyway.

That does give us a couple reasons why the RGM-86 GM IIIs oils not be deployed by the Titans: the data the Titans gathered was not enough to continue with the plan and/or the fact that the AEUG captured all prototypes would mean that design itself has been compromised.

As for the Nero, let’s remember that the MSA-003 Nemo was supposedly built as a quick replacement for the Marasai, originally the MSA-002. The reason for this is because AEUG pilots didn’t like the idea of piloting a MS so heavily inspired by Zeon designs (the Marasai is essentially a Hizack built by Zeon engineers working at AE). The Nemo was a quick solution to this, basically producing s similar machine but heavily based on the EF’s GM series.

Ironically this means that the EF built the Hizack, essentially an EF MS with the skin of a Zaku, while the AE would produce the Nemo, which is basically the opposite: Zeon MS with the skin of a GM

More importantly, some of the Nemo’s Zeonic design traits resurface with the improved MSA-004 Nemo II and Nemo III, including more round shaped armor sections, bulky legs and even a shoulder shield in the case of the MSA-004K. Even their main orange color seems to be meant to hint a relationship with the Marasai, which uses a similar color.

The point I want to reach is that likely the main difference between a Nero and GM III is that the the former is built by AE’s ex-Zeon engineers, while the later would be produced with the EF’s own technology. The later Jegan would essentially be result of combining the know-how between these two designs, being an AE design ordered by the EF forces.

[MythSearcher]

I think I posted this elsewhere, but I suspect that the EF/Titans intended to mass produce RGM-86 units at Gryps at one point:

While this is quite reasonable considering 0086 is actually before most of the hard core fighting in Gryps war, there are a few strange things you are stating.

-The Gryps was already serving as the Titans base by the start of Zeta, with the Dogosse Gier being built inside one of the colonies and the Mk II being tested as well.
-Most importantly, despite the aforementioned facts pointing towards Gryps being tightly under the Titans control, production lines for the RMS-179 are also set there.
-Throughout the series the Titans never actually use GM II units, with some of their pilots even shown to be regular EF soldiers. Which makes odd the decision to produce new GM II units at Gryps.

As I recall, Gryps is one of the two colonies in Side 7, one is the original half completed colony we see in the beginning of MSG (Where Amuro lived), and the other being a double cylinder colony Green Noa 2 which is modified as Gryps2 colony laser by the Titans.

According to the RGM-179 numbering, the 17 part means developed in Gryps and 9 is the development sequence number so it is after the Mk-II, which makes sense that it is also developed by the Titans and possibly as a twin project. In AOZ the Titans Test Team tested the RGM-79CR, which served as the upgrade test for GM II and tech data for Mk-II, so that is pretty confirmed that GM II is a Titans project along with Mk-II.

The contradictory part here would be RGM-79R GM II was not just already serving in EFSF, but it is already considered to be a rather obsolete unit that got written off by Blakes with a bunch of old ships.
While we can see the conspiracy in there (things are written off as junk to be transferred to AEUG inventory), the GM II must be at least old enough so it doesn't look odd in all those burreacratic process.

AEUG is likely receiving their first batch of GM II in 0085 or early 0086.

Of course we also have AOZ, where they where testing the RGM-79CR in 0085, so we can safely place the development time of GM II to at least 0085 and the old numbering more like RGM-85 or maybe even RGM-84.(Of course they'd rather number the GM II as a varient of GM, so they ended up as RGM-79R)
This makes the timeline rather tight, or maybe even impossible. (All blames go to AOZ)
Since the GM II has to be rolled out almost immediately after the TTT testing(or worst, during) and written off like 3 weeks after it entered service. (Don't really have a time because we don't know the exact date it entered service) And the fun thing is, the GM II ended up NOT serving as a Titans unit but a general EFF unit. (So Blakes, who is not a Titans can write them off)

A more rational method might be writing them off as old GM units but at the same time order the GM II upgrades, so long as EFF higher ups didn't cross check the papers, they'd have thought of upgrading existing batches of GMs. (Blakes seems to be high rank enough to pull this off)

-The RX-178 is rolled out in December 0086, which means that it’s old EF model number could have been RX-86. It’s worth pointing out that the unit is still technically not complete, as its old style titanium ceramic armor is meant to be replaced with better materials.

Not really. As in GM III, the development started in 0086, but it rolled out in 0088.
The EFF model number used the year they started the project, not the year the unit rolled out.

My guess is that the RMS-179 production lines are built there worth the expectation that a GM III can be produced on them, in the form of GM II units upgraded with data gathered from the testing of the Gundam Mk II, which might have become a RMS-179R or similar.

In other words, I suspect that new RMS-179 GM IIs are being produced at Gryps with the purpose of having them ready for a later upgrade based on feedback from the Gundam Mk II, which would result in a MS more suitable for the Titans’ needs, whom are the ones testing the RX-178 units already anyway.

That does give us a couple reasons why the RGM-86 GM IIIs oils not be deployed by the Titans: the data the Titans gathered was not enough to continue with the plan and/or the fact that the AEUG captured all prototypes would mean that design itself has been compromised.

The strangest part here would be the mass production of GM II isn't serving Titans at all if they are indeed stamping out from Titans controlled factories. Given that Titans isn't really a big organization, and they have way too many projects running, it would be possible that they simply didn't need the GM IIs. They already have enough MS for everyone and they are all pretty much more powerful than GM IIs.

As of the GM III, since they started development in 0086, it would seem like the project was ordered almost imediately after the upgrades/roll out of GM II.

Anyhow, this whole thing is obviously a big mess.

As for the Nero, let’s remember that the MSA-003 Nemo was supposedly built as a quick replacement for the Marasai, originally the MSA-002. The reason for this is because AEUG pilots didn’t like the idea of piloting a MS so heavily inspired by Zeon designs (the Marasai is essentially a Hizack built by Zeon engineers working at AE). The Nemo was a quick solution to this, basically producing s similar machine but heavily based on the EF’s GM series.

Ironically this means that the EF built the Hizack, essentially an EF MS with the skin of a Zaku, while the AE would produce the Nemo, which is basically the opposite: Zeon MS with the skin of a GM

More importantly, some of the Nemo’s Zeonic design traits resurface with the improved MSA-004 Nemo II and Nemo III, including more round shaped armor sections, bulky legs and even a shoulder shield in the case of the MSA-004K. Even their main orange color seems to be meant to hint a relationship with the Marasai, which uses a similar color.

The point I want to reach is that likely the main difference between a Nero and GM III is that the the former is built by AE’s ex-Zeon engineers, while the later would be produced with the EF’s own technology. The later Jegan would essentially be result of combining the know-how between these two designs, being an AE design ordered by the EF forces.

I don't think this is the case. Titans are Earth elitists, they will be the ones who have problems with the appearances. AEUG pilots are a mix of EFF pilots who are against Titans, mostly Spacenoid based, and old Zeon pilots, so they should not really have a problem with using Mono-eye units. The Nemo seems more like a development for implementing Rick Dias technology and GM technology into the same unit for ease of maintenance since AEUG at the time already are controlling more EF territory and factories.

Also, that still doesn't solve the strangely low spec Nero thrusters.

[yazi88]

Yeah I wouldn't say the Jegan is a the combination of Nero and GM III but just a successor to the GM III for a regular unit for all scenarios, I've seen nothing that Nero leads into for development since it was based on 2 different Gundams but also had very poor performance. And unlike the Nemo and GM III the Jegan has far more variations mostly with the D type for different combat roles. Nemo had a few variations but nothing on a wide scale. GM III just had the Nouvel GM III to my knowledge and its not that different either aside from using the Mk II's beam rifle and more vents along with a slightly better reactor...

IIRC wasn't the Nemo also confirmed to be based partly on the GM Sniper II on the sniper II's HGUC kit?

[MythSearcher]

Suddenly come to the discovery of GM III being listed under the 0087~0088 AE machines and not under 0087~0088 EFF machines in Gundam Encyclopaedia Ver. 1.5.
It listed the unit as being deployed first by AEUG and Karaba in Dakar and Dublin and was only used by EFF after AEUG became the majority of EFF and became the major unit in EFF by the 1st Neo Zeon war.
So the whole thing isn't even developed by EFF at all but AE and only actually becoming an EFF unit after AEUG took control of EFF.

Yeah I wouldn't say the Jegan is a the combination of Nero and GM III but just a successor to the GM III for a regular unit for all scenarios, I've seen nothing that Nero leads into for development since it was based on 2 different Gundams but also had very poor performance. And unlike the Nemo and GM III the Jegan has far more variations mostly with the D type for different combat roles. Nemo had a few variations but nothing on a wide scale. GM III just had the Nouvel GM III to my knowledge and its not that different either aside from using the Mk II's beam rifle and more vents along with a slightly better reactor...

IIRC wasn't the Nemo also confirmed to be based partly on the GM Sniper II on the sniper II's HGUC kit?

Jegan was designed by combining the strength of Nemo and GM series, and Nero wasn't involved at all. Considering Nemo is pretty much an adaptation of Rick Dias and GM II, it only means Jegan had some design aspects of Rick Dias. Moveable frame, maybe? (Or Block Built up, as it was called on Rick Dias)
And yes, Nemo's sensors and Verniers are outsourced to the company manufacturing GM Sniper II. Already in Encyclopaedia Ver. 1.5 so no need for confirmation in the model manuals.

[False Prophet]

We know that two-third of the EFSF fleet was destroyed during Operation Stardust, but how many GM survived the attack? I have been thinking about why didn't EFF use the chance to replace the rest of their post-war GM with Galbaldy β and/or Hi-Zack instead of modernize them to the GM II? Either the factories were unable to produce the first two MS fast enough, or there must be a lot of GM left in 0084.

On that topic, by the time of 0084, how well had the EFF/Anaheim production capability become? Didn't they have problem making GM Command and other variants during the OYW? Could they had done better than the GM II?

[Seto Kaiba]

We know that two-third of the EFSF fleet was destroyed during Operation Stardust, but how many GM survived the attack?

The likely answer is "most of them".

True, the Earth Federation Space Forces fleet suffered heavy losses but think of all the EFF bases throughout the Earth Sphere.

I have been thinking about why didn't EFF use the chance to replace the rest of their post-war GM with Galbaldy β and/or Hi-Zack instead of modernize them to the GM II? [...]

I'd imagine there were likely a number of reasons, such as:

• Anaheim Electronics already having a contract to mass produce the RGM-79R/RMS-179 GM II as the next main mobile suit of the Earth Federation Forces. Government contracts are hard to alter, especially where that much money is involved. Depending on your choice of source, production may have already started by the time of the Operation Stardust attacks.
• Neither the RMS-106 Hizack nor the RMS-117 Galbaldy Beta offer a significant advantage over the GM II. From what I've read, the GM II had the best overall survivability of the three at the expense of slightly worse speed and agility, where the Galbaldy Beta sacrifices defensive for speed and the Hizack compromised its generator power.

On that topic, by the time of 0084, how well had the EFF/Anaheim production capability become? Didn't they have problem making GM Command and other variants during the OYW? Could they had done better than the GM II?

That's as much a question of materials and time as anything else.

We KNOW they could do better because we've seen the results: the Rick Dias. Doing better while remaining cost-effective in large mass production runs is the real issue. Given that the Rick Dias was made with gundarium and had better performance, it's a safe bet they would not have been able to make it as cheaply as the GM II, Hizack, or Galbaldy Beta.

[MythSearcher]

The likely answer is "most of them".

True, the Earth Federation Space Forces fleet suffered heavy losses but think of all the EFF bases throughout the Earth Sphere.

Also, I'd imagine a very high survival rate since the current canon about what destroyed most of the ships in Konpeito isn't the initial nuclear blast but the ships being pushed to ram into each other causing a chain of smaller explosions. I imagine MS being such a smaller target will have a higher survival rate than the closely packed ships.

Also, being pretty much just a show of force with a large number of ships, and most of the 0083 variations do not have MS capacity at all, those ships don't have tons of MS docked in them as well.

Most of the MS are likely spread out to patrol the area or simply not there at all.

I'd imagine there were likely a number of reasons, such as:

• Anaheim Electronics already having a contract to mass produce the RGM-79R/RMS-179 GM II as the next main mobile suit of the Earth Federation Forces. Government contracts are hard to alter, especially where that much money is involved. Depending on your choice of source, production may have already started by the time of the Operation Stardust attacks.
• Neither the RMS-106 Hizack nor the RMS-117 Galbaldy Beta offer a significant advantage over the GM II. From what I've read, the GM II had the best overall survivability of the three at the expense of slightly worse speed and agility, where the Galbaldy Beta sacrifices defensive for speed and the Hizack compromised its generator power.

There is always doubt where Blakes (Somewhere along the rank of OF-6 equivalent) somehow managed to sign off a pretty significant amount of GM IIs as scrpped outdated units around 0084-0085 and provide them to AEUG.
In 0084, GM IIs have just rolled out.
With Gryps conflict happened in 0087, GM IIs are still only 3 year-old units.

Are they really outdated enough so that nobody noticed there are any strange things happening.

A more plausible explanation will be he signed off older GM units, and then AE manufactured the GM II upgrade parts AND upgraded the GMs to GM IIs for AEUG.

If this is the case, AE will likely be very happy to keep the GM IIs rolling out.

On that topic, by the time of 0084, how well had the EFF/Anaheim production capability become? Didn't they have problem making GM Command and other variants during the OYW? Could they had done better than the GM II?

Post-OYW is VERY different from during OYW.
During OYW, the EFF lost 2/3 of Earth land mass and the only space base left for manufacturing is Lunar II and AE was not involved in the manufacturing of MS at all during OYW.
It was only AFTER OYW, AE absorbed Zeonic and various Zeon and EF companies(Like BLASH), that it entered the MS production market.

The EFF also had pretty good production rate during OYW to begin with.
It produced an estimated of at least over 1000 units from Oct to Dec UC0079.
Accounted numbers include the 42 early types, 288 late types of RGM-79 (No special designation attached)
so 320 "Normal" GM, around 40 [G], around 50 each for limited production variants: SC+SP, G, GS, D, F+FP, L, V, U, HC, KC, LV, TGM-79, RGC-80, RAG-79, etc. And a long Long LONG list of single digit built customized and/or testing units like the RXs(75, 77, 78 and 79s), [E], etc.
With the 6 plants, each on average stamped out at least 50 units per month.
So yeah, the EFF isn't really low on its production rate considered they are pretty new in this.
After OYW, EFF did not only reoccupied the 2/3 land mass of Earth, with at least a few more bases to spare, but also new space bases like ABQ, Solomon and Pezun. Granada probably also became much more corparative with Zeon forces pulling out of moon's orbit.

[False Prophet]

Didn't the Titans "acquire" Luna II production line to make their GM Quel? Until when did the GM Quel production stop, and after that what did the Titans build on Luna II?

And Pezun was used exclusively during OYW as an R&D center, wasn't it? How well could it mass-produce MS? The Xeku series weren't built on Pezun, right?

[Seto Kaiba]

Also, I'd imagine a very high survival rate since the current canon about what destroyed most of the ships in Konpeito isn't the initial nuclear blast but the ships being pushed to ram into each other causing a chain of smaller explosions. I imagine MS being such a smaller target will have a higher survival rate than the closely packed ships.

Really? That's the explanation they went with? Not the massively concentrated beam of thermal (and other) radiation, but "ships bumping into each other".

Most of the MS are likely spread out to patrol the area or simply not there at all.

It was a fleet review, and the EFSF was composed largely of ships of the line in that era... so it wouldn't be all that surprising if there were relatively few mobile suits present.

There is always doubt where Blakes (Somewhere along the rank of OF-6 equivalent) somehow managed to sign off a pretty significant amount of GM IIs as scrpped outdated units around 0084-0085 and provide them to AEUG.
In 0084, GM IIs have just rolled out.

A more plausible explanation will be he signed off older GM units, and then AE manufactured the GM II upgrade parts AND upgraded the GMs to GM IIs for AEUG.

As I see it, the most covert method to transfer GM IIs to the AEUG would've been to dispatch groups of the older GM variants to an Anaheim Electronics facility for evaluation, refurbishment, and upgrade to the RGM-79R spec. Members of the Anaheim staff who are in on Anaheim's support of the AEUG could exaggerate the disrepair of a number of units, get permission from the EFF brass to scrap them and replace them with brand new GM IIs, and then refurbish the GMs the EFF had just written off on the AEUG sponsors dime and hand them over to the AEUG forces.

As much as Anaheim got into war profiteering later on, that they would double-dip in transferring hardware to the AEUG strikes me as entirely consistent with their character.

Didn't the Titans "acquire" Luna II production line to make their GM Quel? Until when did the GM Quel production stop, and after that what did the Titans build on Luna II?

The Titans acquired Luna II's production line for the GM Quel sometime between December 0083 and 30 April 0084, based on the Master Archive Mobile Suit RGM-79 GM Vol.2 book.

[MythSearcher]

Really? That's the explanation they went with? Not the massively concentrated beam of thermal (and other) radiation, but "ships bumping into each other". :lol: :roll:

It probably pops up from the idea where space is a vacuum and without the shock wave, it isn't a good place to spread the destructive power of a tactical nuclear bomb.(Yes, the Mk-82 GP02A used is only a tactical weapon and not a strategical weapon).
Since the ships are built to be able to withstand high cosmic radiation to begin with, and thermal radiation don't make things explode well, they went with the explanation where the ships are too closed to each other(which they are in the show, some seems to be just a ship's length from each other) and the explosions caused them to ram into each other and some of the destroyed thermal nuclear engines/rockets/generators exploding and caused further ramming, etc. etc.

Not entirely impossible and makes the EFSF looks more stupid, so I guess it all went well with the Zeon fans?

It was a fleet review, and the EFSF was composed largely of ships of the line in that era... so it wouldn't be all that surprising if there were relatively few mobile suits present.

Yeah, not to mention the ships are probably also seriously under manned, the death toll may also be minimal.

When Gato rushed in, you can notice a lack of any AA guns firing and they are only using the main guns, which is equally stupid in both the "harder to turn and aim at an MS" and "powerful enough to actually sink your own ships" category.

Well, the director also let Char chose a ship that is conviniently not firing its AA during the Battle of Loum in MS Igloo, so...?

As I see it, the most covert method to transfer GM IIs to the AEUG would've been to dispatch groups of the older GM variants to an Anaheim Electronics facility for evaluation, refurbishment, and upgrade to the RGM-79R spec. Members of the Anaheim staff who are in on Anaheim's support of the AEUG could exaggerate the disrepair of a number of units, get permission from the EFF brass to scrap them and replace them with brand new GM IIs, and then refurbish the GMs the EFF had just written off on the AEUG sponsors dime and hand them over to the AEUG forces.

As much as Anaheim got into war profiteering later on, that they would double-dip in transferring hardware to the AEUG strikes me as entirely consistent with their character.

He also managed to sign off a bunch of ships along with the MS, which are also post 0083 model, the Salamis Kai(not the 0083 version), I'd imagine MSs are less of his problems.

Considering some other guy who is only a MS pilot captain in the OYW was able to obtain an Argama in his arsenal, and various Zeon fractions are actually fighting the war with EFF misplaced resources that they shipped to non-existence troops, I guess the EFF has VERY serious logistic problems.

[Seto Kaiba]

It probably pops up from the idea where space is a vacuum and without the shock wave, it isn't a good place to spread the destructive power of a tactical nuclear bomb.(Yes, the Mk-82 GP02A used is only a tactical weapon and not a strategical weapon).

Granted, that's true for detonating a nuclear warhead out in the open where the various forms of radiation which the detonation produces scatters in all directions and only a tiny portion interacts with the targets.

The GP02A's atomic bazooka doesn't suffer from that particular problem because all of the energy of that nuclear detonation is confined and corralled by the i-fields inside of the bazooka such that virtually all of the energy gets focused into a tightly focused beam of thermal and neutron radiation that puts virtually all of the energy of that nuclear warhead detonation on the target. It's similar in principle to how mega-particle beam weapons and the Macross setting's heavy quantum beam reaction beam weapons work by focusing the detonation of a fusion reaction into a beam via confinement.

Since the ships are built to be able to withstand high cosmic radiation to begin with, and thermal radiation don't make things explode well, [...]

This is going to be a lot more radiation than the cosmic background level in the Earth sphere... but it's applying enormous amounts of thermal radiation that's the killer.

After all, these ships are not only pressure vessels by their very nature... they're also carrying a lot of equipment and provisions that are potentially explosive. They're carrying high pressure tanks of cryogenic fuels, propellant, and breathing mixture, some of which is inherently flammable and explosive in the right concentrations. They're carrying all manner of munitions and munitions supplies that are explosive by design and inherently temperature sensitive like rocket motors, warheads, mines, bombs, armor-piercing shells, macro-scale signal flares, and so on. Plus Minovsky reactors themselves are memetically given to violently exploding when structurally compromised (Here's lookin' at you, Mobile Suit Victory Gundam).

If the energy of the beam doesn't simply obliterate the ship, it just needs to compromise the hull in a place that one of those sensitive materials can be affected. If that first explosion doesn't destroy the ship, it could easily trigger secondary explosions as the pressure, shrapnel, and heat from the explosion compromises other sensitive materials in the ship which could do the job. On vintage naval warships, an explosion in the ship's magazine or fuel storage was usually enough to fatally compromise the ship.

Yeah, not to mention the ships are probably also seriously under manned, the death toll may also be minimal.

When Gato rushed in, you can notice a lack of any AA guns firing and they are only using the main guns, which is equally stupid in both the "harder to turn and aim at an MS" and "powerful enough to actually sink your own ships" category.

That likely has a lot more to do with naval tradition.

During a review or inspection, naval tradition dictates that shipboard guns have their barrels sealed using a plug called a tampion. Ceremonial tampions are usually metal and embossed with the ship's seal, while ones intended for protecting guns in a typical operating condition are usually a softer material like rubber or plastic that can be shot through in an emergency. Sealing the guns was a show of respect, though ensuring the safety of the important persons conducting that review or inspection was likely also a factor in the tradition's start. Unsealing the guns would likely have taken a crucial minute or two.

[MythSearcher]

Mecha anime in general tends not to get into hard numbers when it comes to things like the construction cost and operating cost of "real robot" mecha. I've only encountered one book that ever put a firm number on the cost of a real robot-type mecha... and that number didn't age well.

Spoiler

That was the original Macross Journal Extra Sky Angels VF-1 Valkyrie technical manual. It gave the program cost of the VF-1 as $50 billion, with a $126 million flyaway cost for the initial production type VF-1A. The cost would've seemed extreme to readers back in '84 when the book was published and the average fighter jet cost less than $20 million. By the time the calendar caught up to the show's setting, $126 million was considered quite reasonable for a modern fighter jet and the VF-1 would actually have been cheaper than the F-22A by $24 million.
Naturally, after that first brief flirtation with explicit numbers, they stuck to vague "X many times what it cost to build <other robot>".

What I've read in Master Archive Mobile Suit suggests the League Militaire wasn't a particularly large group... but its operations were spread out across a good chunk of Europe and the Moon, and they were beneficiaries of the technical and financial support of both SNRI and Anaheim Electronics.

The next closest attempt might be FMP!
In the episode where Tessa needs to pilot an AS, someone said each AS costs a few ten million US dollars(数千万ドル) and they really shoudln't be playing/messing with them.