Share your Gundam facts!

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MythSearcher
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Re: Share your Gundam facts!

Post by MythSearcher » Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:12 am

False Prophet wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:39 pm
On the topic of Victory Gundam, were all of them just remodeled Gun-EZ, newly-produced models, or a mix of the two? Kind of like the situation between the GM III and Nouvel GM III?
GunEZ is the simplified model of V Gundam, which took away the combination mechanism and other expensive features.
Speaking of which, V Gundam Hexa, the commnader model, also got rid of the combination mechanism for higher performance.

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Re: Share your Gundam facts!

Post by E08 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:04 am

MythSearcher wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:12 am
Speaking of which, V Gundam Hexa, the commnader model, also got rid of the combination mechanism for higher performance.
Hmm... According to the Japanese wiki, this is true only for the novel version of Hexa, not for the anime version. Both the official site profile for Hexa and the Gundam MS Movie Files also noted only the difference in head unit. The official site profile and the MG V-Dash Gundam manual further noted that the rest of mobile suit's structure is almost identical to that of the Victory, which seems to imply that Hexa also has the transformation/docking capabilities. Perhaps someone with time to spare can check the episodes?

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Re: Share your Gundam facts!

Post by PowerdGNFlag » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:57 am

E08 wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:04 am
MythSearcher wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:12 am
Speaking of which, V Gundam Hexa, the commnader model, also got rid of the combination mechanism for higher performance.
Hmm... According to the Japanese wiki, this is true only for the novel version of Hexa, not for the anime version. Both the official site profile for Hexa and the Gundam MS Movie Files also noted only the difference in head unit. The official site profile and the MG V-Dash Gundam manual further noted that the rest of mobile suit's structure is almost identical to that of the Victory, which seems to imply that Hexa also has the transformation/docking capabilities. Perhaps someone with time to spare can check the episodes?
In episode 24, Marbet and Oliver give Uso (who was reduced to a Core Fighter by this point) one main part apiece (Marbet the hanger, Oliver the boots) from their Hexas, so that's pretty conclusive evidence for me.
Well, I guess I'm a nobody...

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Re: Share your Gundam facts!

Post by MythSearcher » Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:26 pm

PowerdGNFlag wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:57 am
E08 wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:04 am

Hmm... According to the Japanese wiki, this is true only for the novel version of Hexa, not for the anime version. Both the official site profile for Hexa and the Gundam MS Movie Files also noted only the difference in head unit. The official site profile and the MG V-Dash Gundam manual further noted that the rest of mobile suit's structure is almost identical to that of the Victory, which seems to imply that Hexa also has the transformation/docking capabilities. Perhaps someone with time to spare can check the episodes?
In episode 24, Marbet and Oliver give Uso (who was reduced to a Core Fighter by this point) one main part apiece (Marbet the hanger, Oliver the boots) from their Hexas, so that's pretty conclusive evidence for me.
Well, I was quoting Gundam Encyclopeadia Ver. 1.5 p145 stating the Hexa is a non-combining MS.
"非合体のMSで、指揮官機として運用。"
It does say it can share parts and options with V Gundam, but cannot use V2 parts because of its power output.
So I guess it is not deployed as combining MS but it still has the ability to do so?
Or because of its compatibility, most of the units we see are V Gundam's equipped with the new Hexa head and not actual scratch built Hexa units?

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Re: Share your Gundam facts!

Post by yazi88 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:32 pm

That doesn't sound right for the Hexa since the only thing different about it was the head which had the extra communications.... everything else is the exact same as the regular Victory Gundam...

Although to be honest I don't think anyone really used the combining aspect of the Victory Gundam as much compared to Uso who was the protagonist... And given the majority of the other pilots in the League Militare I doubt they were skilled enough to do it well or competently...

It sounds like the case of the Destiny Impulse Gundams in side material of Seed Destiny, in that none of them were deployed in separate pieces and just launched in combined MS position.

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Re: Share your Gundam facts!

Post by MythSearcher » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:27 am

yazi88 wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:32 pm
That doesn't sound right for the Hexa since the only thing different about it was the head which had the extra communications.... everything else is the exact same as the regular Victory Gundam...

Although to be honest I don't think anyone really used the combining aspect of the Victory Gundam as much compared to Uso who was the protagonist... And given the majority of the other pilots in the League Militare I doubt they were skilled enough to do it well or competently...

It sounds like the case of the Destiny Impulse Gundams in side material of Seed Destiny, in that none of them were deployed in separate pieces and just launched in combined MS position.
Considering V Gundam was developed as 3 parts mostly for transportation purposes and the revival of the V project, probably nobody expected it to be combined in front of the enemy during the design and development phases...

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Re: Share your Gundam facts!

Post by yazi88 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:37 am

I don't know about that... Combining units are not a new thing in Universal Century, granted its been a while since a Gundam had one but Zanscare itself had units like the Zolo that split into pieces too... Zolo is pretty much a Zanscare version of Neo Zeon's Bawoo...

IIRC, Victory Gundam's engineers were also made up of former Anaheim staff and they are the main ones who made combining Gundam units. I could be wrong there but they were helping League Militare too.

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Re: Share your Gundam facts!

Post by MythSearcher » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:27 am

yazi88 wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:37 am
I don't know about that... Combining units are not a new thing in Universal Century, granted its been a while since a Gundam had one but Zanscare itself had units like the Zolo that split into pieces too... Zolo is pretty much a Zanscare version of Neo Zeon's Bawoo...

IIRC, Victory Gundam's engineers were also made up of former Anaheim staff and they are the main ones who made combining Gundam units. I could be wrong there but they were helping League Militare too.
Yes, AE engineers are also present, but they seemed to have completely dropped the combination idea after S Gundam?
SNRI did some attempt to make their own combining units in the 0120's and their branches which were controlled by CV and Zanscare may have tried the same.
But it seems like most are never designed to be used to combine in front of enemies but more like either for ease of logistics or a quick way to increase scrambled units.

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Re: Share your Gundam facts!

Post by False Prophet » Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:28 am

MythSearcher wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:27 am
Yes, AE engineers are also present, but they seemed to have completely dropped the combination idea after S Gundam?
SNRI did some attempt to make their own combining units in the 0120's and their branches which were controlled by CV and Zanscare may have tried the same.
But it seems like most are never designed to be used to combine in front of enemies but more like either for ease of logistics or a quick way to increase scrambled units.
Wasn't it stated somewhere in Gundam 00 that even the act of transforming from plane to MS mode during flying is very hard to pull, especially when the unit is combat. I imagine combining is even more harder, which only shows how crazily skilled Uso was.

Say, have anyone tried to give specific number to the colonies that the Principality of Zeon, Cosmo Babylonia, and Zanscare controlled respectively? Running a war is very expensive, and yet these groups were able to raise considerable armed forces and managed to face the Earth Federation for quite a while.

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Re: Share your Gundam facts!

Post by E08 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:48 am

MythSearcher wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:26 pm
Well, I was quoting Gundam Encyclopeadia Ver. 1.5 p145 stating the Hexa is a non-combining MS.
"非合体のMSで、指揮官機として運用。"
I see. Ah well, not the first time a source book says something that is contradicted by other sources.
yazi88 wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:32 pm
It sounds like the case of the Destiny Impulse Gundams in side material of Seed Destiny, in that none of them were deployed in separate pieces and just launched in combined MS position.
The Destiny Impulse Gundam piloted by Courtney Heironimus was deployed in separate pieces and then docked to form the Gundam during the Battle of Messiah as depicted in the Destiny MSV senki story.
False Prophet wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:28 am
Wasn't it stated somewhere in Gundam 00 that even the act of transforming from plane to MS mode during flying is very hard to pull, especially when the unit is combat. I imagine combining is even more harder, which only shows how crazily skilled Uso was.
Different universe, different set of rules and technology in play. Besides, the Union Flag wasn't really designed to transform while in operation, that was a pilot-based hack.

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Re: Share your Gundam facts!

Post by yazi88 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:34 am

Oh, my bad. I didn't know that the Coutrney's Destiny Impulse launched in pieces...

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Re: Share your Gundam facts!

Post by False Prophet » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:06 am

On the topic of production number, anyone here have any idea how many Xeku was produced? Or the size of New Desides in general?

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Re: Share your Gundam facts!

Post by bilbros » Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:08 am

If I'm not wrong, the composition of the whole New Desides forces is as follows:

AMA-100 Z'od-iacok x 1 [from Axis]
ORX-013 Gundam Mk-V x 1 [from the Aeno fleet]
RMS-141 Xeku-Eins x 20
RMS-142 Xeku-Zwei x 3
Columbus class x 6 [4 from Pezun, 2 from the Aeno fleet]
Columbus class (modified) x 2 [from the Aeno fleet]
Enterprise class x 3
Magellan class x 2
Magellan class (modified) x 2 [from the Aeno fleet]
Musai Kai class x 1 [from Axis]
Salamis class (modified) x 11 [3 from Pezun, 8 from the Aeno fleet]

which would give a total of 52 units (24 MS + 1 MA + 27 ships).

Please note that the actual number of produced Xeku-Zwei is unknown: those three are the only surviving prototypes after the destruction of Pezun and embarked on the battleship Kilimanjaro.

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Re: Share your Gundam facts!

Post by False Prophet » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:06 am

bilbros wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:08 am
If I'm not wrong, the composition of the whole New Desides forces is as follows:

AMA-100 Z'od-iacok x 1 [from Axis]
ORX-013 Gundam Mk-V x 1 [from the Aeno fleet]
RMS-141 Xeku-Eins x 20
RMS-142 Xeku-Zwei x 3
Columbus class x 6 [4 from Pezun, 2 from the Aeno fleet]
Columbus class (modified) x 2 [from the Aeno fleet]
Enterprise class x 3
Magellan class x 2
Magellan class (modified) x 2 [from the Aeno fleet]
Musai Kai class x 1 [from Axis]
Salamis class (modified) x 11 [3 from Pezun, 8 from the Aeno fleet]

which would give a total of 52 units (24 MS + 1 MA + 27 ships).

Please note that the actual number of produced Xeku-Zwei is unknown: those three are the only surviving prototypes after the destruction of Pezun and embarked on the battleship Kilimanjaro.
Would this number makes them somewhat equal to a small Federation fleet? And how big is one Federation fleet by late 0080s anyway?

Also, considering the number of Xeku, did the model enter production before or after the attack on Zedan? And was Anaheim funded by the Titans to develop the model, or they financed it by themselves? I mean, between the White Base escape from Side 7 and the attack on Jaburo, the EFF in Jaburo had already finished developing the GM and manufactured a good number of them.

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Re: Share your Gundam facts!

Post by bilbros » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:50 pm

Basically, the Xeku-Eins was produced on Pezun by the EFF, thanks also to the new data obtained in U.C. 0085 with the training corps stationed in the asteroid (the same people who later will declare themselves "New Desides").
Therefore, all RMS-141 units were most likely completed way before the very start of the Gryps War. And as far as I know, there was no AE intervention in their development.

As for the average numbers of an EFF fleet around the time of the Pezun Revolt, consider that the Aeno fleet (a Federatioin unit which allies with the rebels) is made by 2 modified Magellan class (flagship Bull Run and the Marengo), each with a carrying capacity of 12 MSs (MSA-007E x 3; RGM-86R x 9), 8 modified Salamis class (9 MS each) and 2 modified Columbus class (36 mobile suits each).
On the other hand, the Taskforce Alpha has "only" 1 Argama class (the Pegasus III, embarking 9 MSs) and 6 modified Salamis class, whereas taskforces from Beta to Gamma are made up by "merely" 4 modified Salamis class each.
So, to answer your question, I'd say that the New Desides are even more powerful than an ordinary small fleet...

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Re: Share your Gundam facts!

Post by yazi88 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:43 pm

Since we are on the subject of Sentinel...

WHAT made the Neros worth developing or deploying especially as a mass production unit? They only have beam sabers and a beam rifle and nothing else... their performance isn't that good since they have less thrust and are slower than the GM III... only thing it has better than the GM III is its sensor range... Maybe it might be more maneuverable but since it has less overall thrusters/verniers I doubt that...

Was the Nero cheap to make hence why it was deployed? And it also seems that it doesn't even show up in any sidestories either like the various Unicorn ones for mangas... Overall the GM III and Nouvel GM III seem like better mass production units in every aspect... The profile states it has room for customization but outside of the Trainer and EWAC model I don't see anything that makes it worth deploying...

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Re: Share your Gundam facts!

Post by MythSearcher » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:14 am

yazi88 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:43 pm
Since we are on the subject of Sentinel...

WHAT made the Neros worth developing or deploying especially as a mass production unit? They only have beam sabers and a beam rifle and nothing else... their performance isn't that good since they have less thrust and are slower than the GM III... only thing it has better than the GM III is its sensor range... Maybe it might be more maneuverable but since it has less overall thrusters/verniers I doubt that...

Was the Nero cheap to make hence why it was deployed? And it also seems that it doesn't even show up in any sidestories either like the various Unicorn ones for mangas... Overall the GM III and Nouvel GM III seem like better mass production units in every aspect... The profile states it has room for customization but outside of the Trainer and EWAC model I don't see anything that makes it worth deploying...
I have always wondered as well.
Other than the thrust, other parameters of Nero are perfectly fit for the time.
It has a higher generator output, greater sensor range, better armour/contruction material than GM III.
The problem is the extremely low, even most OYW mass production units have higher thrust than it.(sans MS-05B, which is only 100kg less)
Even if you take into consideration of its lighter frame, the much earlier AE manufactured mass production unit, the Rick Dias, has even less empty weight AND almost double its thrust; Nemo, being only a bit heavier, also has comparable thrust to Rick Dias.

Rubbing salt to the wound, Nero is supposed to be the mass-production of S Gundam and Lambda Gundam(bottom and top)
S Gundam's addon Booster unit has the highest thrust number and acceleration settings in all UC and Ext. has the second highest.
While S's thrust is much lower than the addon units, its own thrust isn't pathetic like Nero, but still maintained to be much higher than average spec.
With the increased mass, EWAC Nero is even more pathetic. Nero Trainer is just slightly better but really not that much to boast about.

It is especially interesting that this kind of numbers appear in Sentinel, since most of the other units in it has a relatively high thrust compared to Zeta and ZZ equivalent units.
Xeku Eins has over double the thrust of Nero, the only friend of Nero is Gaza E, which is also buffed from the Gaza C and D thrust, but not as much as Nero from its predecessor Nemo.

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Re: Share your Gundam facts!

Post by yazi88 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:49 am

In the case of the Nouvel GM III, the Nero is barely any better in generator strength and sensors... sure the Nero is lighter and has better armor, but the Nero also doesn't have a shield either...

I think the Nero is probably the worst attempt to try to mass produce a Gundam or in this case 2... nothing performance wise even resembles either of the 2 Gundams its based on...

On the bright side, EWAC Nero seems to be the inspiration/basis for the EWAC Jegan and EWAC Jesta.... so atleast SOMETHING useful came from the Nero albeit a recon unit...

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Re: Share your Gundam facts!

Post by MythSearcher » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:36 am

yazi88 wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:49 am
In the case of the Nouvel GM III, the Nero is barely any better in generator strength and sensors... sure the Nero is lighter and has better armor, but the Nero also doesn't have a shield either...

I think the Nero is probably the worst attempt to try mass produce a Gundam or in this case 2... nothing performance wise even resembles either of the 2 Gundams its based on...

On the bright side, EWAC Nero seems to be the inspiration/basis for the EWAC Jegan and EWAC Jesta.... so atleast SOMETHING useful came from the Nero albeit a recon unit...
I don't really give the shield much consideration because they can always carry shields from other units. Just like a Zaku can carry a GM shield without any problem.

The generator seems to be pretty big in the settings, for that tiny increase in power, Nero needed the double intake valve in its chest. (Not that it makes any sense in space, okay, it does provide slightly more surface area for radiating heat)

[Joke]Since Lambda Gundam has almost no spec at all, and we only know of its armaments, it can always be the worst performance Gundam? It has psychommu systems installed, so maybe the spec is just poor?[/Joke]

Okay, that isn't funny at all.

My opinion to rationalize this is maybe the frame of Nero is designed to support addons from S, which GM III and Nemo frames aren't strong enough, so as long as you mass produce Ex-S back pack, Nero[Ext] and Nero[Bst] can become the most powerful mass-production unit out there. The plan just didn't go as well as AE would have liked it, EFF didn't seemed to care for the mass-production of S at all(and wasted a unit for the testing of ALICE), and the booster packs was only limitedly produced for Z plus (so you get the Z plus C1[Bst]) and not full production for Nero units, rendering the Nero's to be such unwanted baby of the project and never produced again.

I liked the EWAC design, just that the performance is pathetic. Give it a pair of Booster packs and it would have likely survived.

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Re: Share your Gundam facts!

Post by yazi88 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:01 am

Funny thing is looking at the specs, EWAC Nero has the best sensor range for a EWAC unit... 6250000 meters compared to the 38400 meters of the EWAC Jegan... but the Jegan does have a camera on it so maybe that is better for sending info back quicker? And the EWAC Jegan actually has armaments too for combat too...

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