How well would a MA operate on Mars?

[False Prophet]

So, the Byg-Zamuru, which was based on the Big Zam and the Jamru Fin, and was the basic for the Grand Zam. How well would it operate on the atmosphere and the surface of Mars, whose air density and gravity were both lower than Earth?

To me it was interesting to see Mars Zeon taking inspiration from the Flying Armor concept and trying to make the upper body of the Big Zamuru into something resembles a flying surface.

[Seto Kaiba]

So, the Byg-Zamuru, which was based on the Big Zam and the Jamru Fin, and was the basic for the Grand Zam. How well would it operate on the atmosphere and the surface of Mars, whose air density and gravity were both lower than Earth?

It should probably work better on Mars than on Earth... at least in terms of fuel consumption needed to hover, jump, and fly, and the structural strain on the frame from walking. It's pretty clearly not designed to fly by lift, so it has a significant advantage it can derive from Mars's mean surface gravity being a mere 0.376g. Since the Big Zam that it's based on was designed for use in space it's probably not air-cooled, so the lower atmospheric density shouldn't be a major issue for it.

[Gelgoog Jager]

Let’s not forget that this is the same group of Zeon remnants that now have more direct predecessors to the Zanscare Empire’s hovering bike battleships in the form of the Sand Angler and Gran Xandria.

[yazi88]

Messala was a transformable MA that was made to operate in Jupiter, so it could easily function on Mars too. Same with Gaplant and Asshimar which were made to fly in Earth atmosphere.

[Gelgoog Jager]

Messala was a transformable MA that was made to operate in Jupiter, so it could easily function on Mars too. Same with Gaplant and Asshimar which were made to fly in Earth atmosphere.

Since you mentioned the case of the Messala, it’s worth noting that the Jamru Fin was also designed to operate on Jupiter... when using an nuclear pulse engine booster on top of its AMF-02 Mega Booster:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/gun ... 0709134717

Ultimately, I would assume that it’s movement would be more along that of a Psycho Gundam in mobile fortress mode, which seems to be what the later OMAX-01 Grand Zam also did.

On a different note, what are those things inside the Big Zamuru that are colored pink in a side sketch, which would seem like something that detaches from the main body?

[MythSearcher]

On a different note, what are those things inside the Big Zamuru that are colored pink in a side sketch, which would seem like something that detaches from the main body?

Escape pod built from parts of the Jamuru Finn.(Or more specific, the body of the Jamuru Finn)

[False Prophet]

Since you mentioned the case of the Messala, it’s worth noting that the Jamru Fin was also designed to operate on Jupiter... when using an nuclear pulse engine booster on top of its AMF-02 Mega Booster:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/gun ... 0709134717

Ultimately, I would assume that it’s movement would be more along that of a Psycho Gundam in mobile fortress mode, which seems to be what the later OMAX-01 Grand Zam also did.

Is there anything of particular interest to Axis Zeon in Jupiter that they added the feature into the Jamru Fin? And when was that machine designed anyway? The only explaination I have is that unlike the Principality, who had the vow of the Jupiter Fleet to supply them with H3, Axis Zeon did not.

[MythSearcher]

Is there anything of particular interest to Axis Zeon in Jupiter that they added the feature into the Jamru Fin? And when was that machine designed anyway? The only explaination I have is that unlike the Principality, who had the vow of the Jupiter Fleet to supply them with H3, Axis Zeon did not.

Zeon had their own Jupiter Fleet, so they don't need any vow.
Axis was originally a midway station for the Jupiter Fleet of Zeon, I don't see any reason why they can't send out their own fleet since they are much closer to Jupiter in terms of orbital potential energy.
They don't have to overcome a large planetary graviational field and they are already closer to Jupiter than to Earth at the closest approach anyway. So their ships to Jupiter can be smaller.

[False Prophet]

Zeon had their own Jupiter Fleet, so they don't need any vow.
Axis was originally a midway station for the Jupiter Fleet of Zeon, I don't see any reason why they can't send out their own fleet since they are much closer to Jupiter in terms of orbital potential energy.
They don't have to overcome a large planetary graviational field and they are already closer to Jupiter than to Earth at the closest approach anyway. So their ships to Jupiter can be smaller.

Zeon has their own fleet? Well, I have no idea. How did they have the long-distant space cargo carrier anyway? Could they build it themselves, or buy from someone else? (I mean, in CDA Zeon ships have been shown to be able to travel for extended period of time, so it is not out of the realm of possibility that they built them themselves.)

[MythSearcher]

Zeon has their own fleet? Well, I have no idea. How did they have the long-distant space cargo carrier anyway? Could they build it themselves, or buy from someone else? (I mean, in CDA Zeon ships have been shown to be able to travel for extended period of time, so it is not out of the realm of possibility that they built them themselves.)

Zeon's 1st Jupiter Fleet departed in Oct 0070 and returned in Dec 0074 with a lot of casualties and psychological illnesses.
The second Fleet is likely the one Challia Bull was on when he returned.
They do have power to build their own Jupiter fleet, and the MS Era picture is even the main picture used for the Jupiter Fleet entry of Gundam wikia.

[False Prophet]

Zeon's 1st Jupiter Fleet departed in Oct 0070 and returned in Dec 0074 with a lot of casualties and psychological illnesses.
The second Fleet is likely the one Challia Bull was on when he returned.

Casualties? Psychological illnesses, I can understand, but wasn't by the 0070s space travel in U.C. had become really good? Then how did people die? Suicide?

Also, do you think that the strain put on by long-range space travel is a particular factor in the emergence of Newtypes, or is it just war?

[Seto Kaiba]

Casualties? Psychological illnesses, I can understand, but wasn't by the 0070s space travel in U.C. had become really good? Then how did people die? Suicide?

Space travel within the Earth Sphere was relatively swift and safe because the distances involved aren't that long and population centers are scattered around the area. You're never further than 1.1 light seconds from Earth's surface or any Side. Help is only a few days away at most, no matter where you are.

Jupiter is between 1,962 and 3,229 light seconds from Earth depending on how orbits align. Assuming the ships of Jupiter's energy fleet are capable of moving at least as fast as Axis was when it really got hustling (~9.1km/s), the energy fleet would be in transit in deep space for nearly two years each way. A lot can happen in two years away from civilization with only the supplies you brought with you. Surely there were accidents, as there always are in industrial environments. A flight surgeon's no substitute for a fully-staffed trauma center. This was also before a well-established colonist presence could be found at Jupiter, so they were basically screwed coming AND going in 0070-0074. Trapped in a not-terribly-large metal box (and an even smaller gravity block) with the same group of people for four years, there were probably plenty of casualties from fights among fleet crew and probably a few murders and/or suicides among people who couldn't handle it.

Also, do you think that the strain put on by long-range space travel is a particular factor in the emergence of Newtypes, or is it just war?

Wasn't it supposed to be just adaptation to living in space full-time?

IIRC, war was credited with keeping the newtype population down because they kept getting experimented on and drafted as supersoldiers.

[MythSearcher]

Help is only a few days away at most, no matter where you are.

With the EF patrol fleets, help is likely just hours away, if not minutes.

Also, do you think that the strain put on by long-range space travel is a particular factor in the emergence of Newtypes, or is it just war?

War is when they figured out there are what we now call Newtype actually exists.
The term was used for various cases.
The one on the original constitution, which has no definition at all.
The one Gihren used in his political speech, which means all spacenoids who follows him and Zeon is more Newtype than others.
The one we as the audience usually use, those with a special ability very fit for combat. In-universe this is discovered by Kycillia, after the battle of Loum, she found that the casualty rate is less than the predicted rate and the from the reaction time of humans it seemed like impossible. So she ordered to research into this and started using the term Newtype to call these people with extraordanary reaction.
At the same time, Seto Kaiba is right, war is keeping their population down because they are sent to war.

[False Prophet]

War is when they figured out there are what we now call Newtype actually exists.
The term was used for various cases.
The one on the original constitution, which has no definition at all.
The one Gihren used in his political speech, which means all spacenoids who follows him and Zeon is more Newtype than others.
The one we as the audience usually use, those with a special ability very fit for combat. In-universe this is discovered by Kycillia, after the battle of Loum, she found that the casualty rate is less than the predicted rate and the from the reaction time of humans it seemed like impossible. So she ordered to research into this and started using the term Newtype to call these people with extraordanary reaction.
At the same time, Seto Kaiba is right, war is keeping their population down because they are sent to war.

Wasn't it supposed to be just adaptation to living in space full-time?
IIRC, war was credited with keeping the newtype population down because they kept getting experimented on and drafted as supersoldiers.

I have always been doubtful about the theory that people having prolonged live in space colonies actually have more chance to become Newtypes--how different can it be to living on Earth? At the same time, Newtypes had been there before OYW like Chalia Bull, Lalah Sun, Rita Bernal (NT), and that Buddhist guy from Thunderbolt, so war is not the only-probably one of the biggest, but not the only-catalyst for Newtype emergence. But we have seen that Newtype abilities clearly manifested under very dangerous threats to the Newtypes themselves. So Mythsearcher's post made me came up with the idea that long-range space travel could be the cataclyst.

Then again, both Lalah Sun and Rita Bernal had never left Earth before their talents manifested, so my theory is probably wrong.

[Seto Kaiba]

I have always been doubtful about the theory that people having prolonged live in space colonies actually have more chance to become Newtypes--how different can it be to living on Earth?

For one thing, the gravity situation is vastly different. Spacenoids living in the colonies or aboard the Jupiter Fleet are living in places where gravity is simulated by centrifugal force rather than a product of a planetary gravity well. It's an imperfect simulation, and it's not a constant throughout the colony. There are areas of reduced gravity or straight-up zero gravity even indoors, and many colony residents work outside the colonies as well in proper zero-g. An improved spatial awareness would be absolutely essential to succeed in an environment like that.

At the same time, Newtypes had been there before OYW like Chalia Bull, Lalah Sun, Rita Bernal (NT), and that Buddhist guy from Thunderbolt, so war is not the only-probably one of the biggest, but not the only-catalyst for Newtype emergence.

Newtype theory held that living in space would be the catalyst for the emergence of a new breed of humanity... space colonization had been ongoing for three quarters of a century by that point, and the most powerful newtypes are ones who were born and/or raised in space.

Then again, both Lalah Sun and Rita Bernal had never left Earth before their talents manifested, so my theory is probably wrong.

It's possible one or both of their parents were spacenoids... newtype ability IS allegedly a heritable trait.

[MythSearcher]

Newtype theory held that living in space would be the catalyst for the emergence of a new breed of humanity... space colonization had been ongoing for three quarters of a century by that point, and the most powerful newtypes are ones who were born and/or raised in space.

It's possible one or both of their parents were spacenoids... newtype ability IS allegedly a heritable trait.

That theory seems to be more like political bluff proposed by Zeon(person) and then twisted by the Zabis than actual fact.
Zeta Gundam novel did state living in space improved the spacial awareness, but that is also not really explaining all of the other aspects of newtypes.
In any case, what triggered the evolution seems more like Minovsky particles than space itself.

Giving 2 examples, Amuro had both Earthnoid parents, born and raised on Earth (both TV[obsolete] and Movie setting place his birth place as Earth, Japan San'in region/Canada British Columbia. The Origin place his birth place as Tottori Prefecture).
He only moved to Side 7 in May 0078.(although he may have lived in space for a longer time, but no known location is given)
Uso Erwin is also born and raised on Earth with both Earthnoid parents.

The problem here is that they have a really poor communication during production of MSG.
Tomino used the term in the script but didn't tell others in the crew what on Earth is that term(which he equate to Espers, only more powerful at the time himself in his thought)
There is a published academic paper about this:(BTW, translation isn't that great)
https://glim-re.repo.nii.ac.jp/?action= ... lock_id=21

This led to the crew having their own definition at different times of production and the current state of total mess. (That and also Tomino isn't a man sticking to his own thought over time, and liked to change his mind as often as he likes)

[Seto Kaiba]

That theory seems to be more like political bluff proposed by Zeon(person) and then twisted by the Zabis than actual fact.

The theory predates Zeon Zum Deikun's birth by at least nine years... which was the whole bone of contention in the Gundam UC [novel/OVA/series], that the original Universal Century charter had Article 15 Subsection II that granted an emerging space-adapted human race priority in administration of the government. That charter was unveiled on 1 January UC 0001. Sojo Levan Fu was also the subject of Earth Federation experiments on the idea of Newtypes well before the idea gained any real traction.

In any case, what triggered the evolution seems more like Minovsky particles than space itself.

That wouldn't really work for a number of Newtypes whose abilities manifested before they were ever exposed to Minovsky reactors, or in at least one case (Levan Fu) potentially before Minovsky reactors were even a thing. (I'm also rather against this idea because Gundam 00's Swiss Army particles were pretty ridiculous.)

He only moved to Side 7 in May 0078.(although he may have lived in space for a longer time, but no known location is given)

Thought it was 0077... mind you, his newtype abilities could be a product of random mutation (the way evolution actually works) rather than the hilariously scientifically inaccurate concept of evolutionary predestination which Zeon Zum Deikun and the Principality that took his name bought into and the Zabis weaponized.

Uso Erwin is also born and raised on Earth with both Earthnoid parents.

IIRC, Uso's background is given as an illegal immigrant to Earth... both his parents lived and worked in space before the war, and there is that popular theory that was planned for the series that he was a descendant of Char Aznable via Nanai Miguel.

[MythSearcher]

The theory predates Zeon Zum Deikun's birth by at least nine years... which was the whole bone of contention in the Gundam UC [novel/OVA/series], that the original Universal Century charter had Article 15 Subsection II that granted an emerging space-adapted human race priority in administration of the government. That charter was unveiled on 1 January UC 0001. Sojo Levan Fu was also the subject of Earth Federation experiments on the idea of Newtypes well before the idea gained any real traction.

The problem is that no one knew about the Constitution extra subsection.

Zeon Deikun completely stick to the idea of space is the reason to trigger human evolution, yet with no prove of any human being better in any sense. Gihren bought that idea and turned it up to 11 and used it for the propaganda of Principility of Zeon.

Except for the UC0001 usage, both usage before OYW are pure political propaganda.

That wouldn't really work for a number of Newtypes whose abilities manifested before they were ever exposed to Minovsky reactors, or in at least one case (Levan Fu) potentially before Minovsky reactors were even a thing. (I'm also rather against this idea because Gundam 00's Swiss Army particles were pretty ridiculous.)

Levan Fu isn't even canon...(Thunderbolt is a mess and deemed alternative UC by official sources)

In canon, we do not have any Newtype testing before OYW, actually, Battle of Loum.

I do understand why you are against the idea, yes, it is quite ridiculous to have such all-mighty particles.
However, if you look into all of the Newtype abilities, a lot of them do not even have any effect without the particles, so at least Newtypes are evolved to adapt to an enviornment with Minovsky particles and not really in space in particular.
Newtypes emit and sense a Psychommu wave with M particles as its medium (detection of other Newtypes and units, communication with other newtypes and Psychommu devices), their quick reaction time is also from distubance of M particles (that is why they can have a negative reaction time, they just have information before oldtypes can see them). All of the miracles like Zeta's & ZZ's invincibility in show, Axis being deflected by just a bunch of MS, Unicorn blocking the colony laser, etc. etc. are all explained by the ability of attracting M particles to a high enough density by Newtypes.

Other Newtype aspects include good spacial awareness (which isn't really that new considering we already have a lot of people with that) and very accurate prediction with available data (also not very new) aren't really that unique to them.

Thought it was 0077... mind you, his newtype abilities could be a product of random mutation (the way evolution actually works) rather than the hilariously scientifically inaccurate concept of evolutionary predestination which Zeon Zum Deikun and the Principality that took his name bought into and the Zabis weaponized.

That is why I said the Newtype being evolved from living in space is just political bluff.

Uso Erwin is also born and raised on Earth with both Earthnoid parents.

IIRC, Uso's background is given as an illegal immigrant to Earth... both his parents lived and worked in space before the war, and there is that popular theory that was planned for the series that he was a descendant of Char Aznable via Nanai Miguel.
[/quote]

Right, but remember all those Side 7 refugees brought back to Earth are also illegal immigrants. The Federation had very little care for any II after they froze the space immigration projects(building of Side 7).

Another main Newtype sample, which is even used exclusively by Zeon, Lalah Sune, is also Earthnoid, who lived near the river Ganges of India as a child prostitute before Char went there for obvious reasons.
I know there are conflicting accounts from the MSG novel(which stated Lalah lived in Side 5 instead of Earth before Char got to her), but Gundam Officials and MS Era both seemed to be buying to to the idea of her being from Earth more then space. (You even got the picture from MS Era in which she was "Saved" by a Zeon Officer from being a Child prostitute, well, Char went there for Child prostitution before he sensed Lalah being special and that place was built for Zeon officers)

And you also have other samples from the list like General Revil, you really have a huge big mixed bag and too many "random mutation" that have a strong background of Earth instead of space.

If you look into it more IRL, what Tomino said and did, you will fully understand why it is such a mess.
The paper I linked up there summarized the mess in MSG, you have him stating in an interview about "Newtypes are Espers, just better", but Amuro in show stating Newtypes are not Espers and Bright stating "Newtypes are like Espers". You also have interview of him during ZZ, where he mentioned "All children are Newtypes".
He didn't really made up his mind, and whatever retcon we have are from a bunch of things developed from what the other production crew members trying to interpret during the tight schedule of production.

[Folgore_202]

I think that the biggest issue in operating a MA on Mars would be the pilot's training! It'd be one hell of a hassle to get used to this very specific gravitation instead of what the pilot's been training for: what would be sufficient to hover on Earth would catapult the whole mecha into low orbit on Mars!

[MythSearcher]

I think that the biggest issue in operating a MA on Mars would be the pilot's training! It'd be one hell of a hassle to get used to this very specific gravitation instead of what the pilot's been training for: what would be sufficient to hover on Earth would catapult the whole mecha into low orbit on Mars!

It's UC, which is a world set in at least 100 years from we are, now.
Computers are good enough to auto-adjust what the mecha is outputing with our technology level with proper tunning before hand. In fact, you can't really control anything to combat without computer assist in space no matter how much training you have.