The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk II

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk

Post by SonicSP » Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:38 pm

When they said that the AlayaShiki is needed to bring out the full potential of the twin Ahab Reactors, they were not kidding about that. I mean I know we saw a bit of it during the Graze Ein fight but this was another level altogether. There must be a reactor output increased of sorts I feel, even if most of it was the increased synchronization.

Barbatos was plain scary in this episode, far more than Hashmal was. Truly, they are deserving of their devil names. No wonder they were able to turn the tides during the Calamity War despite them being countless mobile armors.

A part of me wants to see more of the downsides of the Gundam Frames (aside from taking away the limbs with higher syncs), which was that they are hard to keep ithe reactors working in parallel. I think we've only seen the output dropped once.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk

Post by Amion » Mon Dec 26, 2016 3:04 pm

I wonder about Chocky having the AV, though. Remember his dialogue with McGillis. He not only knew where the lab for the AV was, but that it had been undergoing research "until recently". In other words, Gjallarhorn has improved upon the tech. Is it not then plausible that there are methods available to the organization that allow for a whiskerless surgery?

It's a spinal-nano machine implant, but there's no reason advancements in technology can't overcome this. Perhaps it was seeded into him at a very young age in tiny segments, which then integrated directly into his spine without leaving outward evidence. Or maybe whole platelets were extracted and implanted, and then replaced/exchanged for those containing AV tech.

What we DO know is that Ein was capable of having it, despite his age, and he couldn't have been much older than Hush, who is already beyond receiving it without incredible risk. Unless I recall wrong, there was never a question if Ein's surgery would fail, and that alone sets Gjallarhorn's advanced AV tech apart from the generic CGS stuff.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk

Post by Dark Duel » Mon Dec 26, 2016 3:12 pm

Ein was also essentially reduced to an upper body/head who was permanently attached to the mobile suit's life support and control systems, and could not even get out of the cockpit, much less survive outside of it.
So it might not be the best example.
Could something less extreme be theoretically possible? Maybe.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk

Post by SonicSP » Mon Dec 26, 2016 3:59 pm

I have a strange feeling that McGillis doesn't have any AlayaShiki implants now - but he might get it just to get full power of Bael.

He said that the corruption of Gjallahorn needed to be blown away by a strong wind or something and that Mika was the one who washed his doubts away. Perhaps the doubts he had was in the risks of the surgery, whereas Mika showed him the power he could have potentially.

Personally I say there are definitely risks for him to take that surgery since he has much more to lose as a human being, whereas Ein was already someone whose only upper body remains. But Ein is interesting because it shows is that adult interfration of the system is possible.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk

Post by yazi88 » Mon Dec 26, 2016 4:25 pm

The only way for McGillis to get the AV implant if its like Ein... he's too old for the proper implants like the Tekkadan kids got.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk

Post by Deathzealot » Mon Dec 26, 2016 4:33 pm

You know. I thought of something. Maybe its only the modern version of the AV Implant Surgery that allows it to be used on kids, what if the older AV stuff was possible to have older people to use it. Just a thought.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk

Post by SonicSP » Tue Dec 27, 2016 12:41 am

It's possible and I have seen some theories pertaining to that. One of the things I'm interested in is the state of the original Gundam pilots especially the Seven Stars. Hoping the series will elaborate more info on that eventually.

At the very least. Ein has showed us that it's possible though it might have potentially more side effects.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk

Post by Kuruni » Tue Dec 27, 2016 1:24 am

Taking Moon Steel into account, Argi Mirage can use AV by connect through his prosthetic arm, although it can't be compared to actual AV implant.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk

Post by biohazard_star » Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:18 am

Well, we've known for a while now that Gjallarhorn has a history of manipulating information and limiting technological progress in order to prevent a repeat of the Calamity War. They have a monopoly on the production of new Ahab Reactors, and they've demonized the use of the AV system and other related prosthetic and cybernetic enhancements. IIRC, the issue with Graze Ein was that no one at Gjallarhorn was willing to get AV implants. Ein was in a unique position to get it since he was gonna die without it anyway. Most likely, Gjallarhorn does indeed have the capability to successfully implant a full set of three AV ports on an adult human, they just haven't shared the equipment and know-how with the rest of the world.

The do-it-yourself AV system surgery they do in the outer regions of the Earth Sphere has a high fatality rate, and the chances of successfully getting a full set of three whiskers like Mikazuki did is very low. Given the right mobile suit, people with a full set of whiskers like Mikazuki and Ein can potentially upset Gjallarhorn's power balance. It's in Gjallarhorn's best interest to prevent other people from developing non-fatal AV surgery and advancing AV-related mobile suit tech.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk

Post by domino » Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:43 am

Kuruni wrote:Taking Moon Steel into account, Argi Mirage can use AV by connect through his prosthetic arm, although it can't be compared to actual AV implant.
Interesting. It does give McGillis other options to interface with Bael

I would find it interesting if he does get AV and even suffered for it. It would be an interesting mirror of Mika's choice to also suffer for progress towards a goal

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk

Post by amagee2100 » Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:12 pm

I think what we're seeing with Mikazuki and the Alaya-Vinjana system is just an inevitable negative outcome based off how the system works. As the supplemental materials have explained, the nano-machines of the system work to create an artificial third lobe of the brain which helps the pilots move their suits in a very human-like fashion because, for all intents and purposes, a part of their brain is devoted to moving the mobile suit.

What I suppose is happening to Mika is that, as the suit goes more and more full throttle, it is gradually taking over more and more of his brain in order to help it push the Barbatos beyond its normal limits. So while before he lost feeling, his "third lobe" was non-functional to him since only the mobile suit used it, we're gradually seeing more of his brain become devoted solely to mobile suit control and, henceforth, non-functional when outside of it.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk

Post by Amion » Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:56 pm

amagee2100 wrote:I think what we're seeing with Mikazuki and the Alaya-Vinjana system is just an inevitable negative outcome based off how the system works. As the supplemental materials have explained, the nano-machines of the system work to create an artificial third lobe of the brain which helps the pilots move their suits in a very human-like fashion because, for all intents and purposes, a part of their brain is devoted to moving the mobile suit.

What I suppose is happening to Mika is that, as the suit goes more and more full throttle, it is gradually taking over more and more of his brain in order to help it push the Barbatos beyond its normal limits. So while before he lost feeling, his "third lobe" was non-functional to him since only the mobile suit used it, we're gradually seeing more of his brain become devoted solely to mobile suit control and, henceforth, non-functional when outside of it.
Hence all the talk of de-synchronizing with the Barbatos. That should be possible, assuming the AV system isn't actually overwriting or destroying something important. Somehow all that blood gives me a bad feeling the effects are indeed of the permanent. sort.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk

Post by nacho-wan » Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:35 pm

My guess on the AV surgery is that the pilots from the calamity war must have receive the implants as adults. Because they developed the Gundam Frame as a contingency to the Mobile Armors - surely they didn't wait for their children to grow as guinea pigs for an experimental control system. The first Gundam pilots were royalty; they weren't enlighten afterwards with the funding of Gjallarhorn
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk

Post by SonicSP » Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:15 pm

nacho-wan wrote:My guess on the AV surgery is that the pilots from the calamity war must have receive the implants as adults. Because they developed the Gundam Frame as a contingency to the Mobile Armors - surely they didn't wait for their children to grow as guinea pigs for an experimental control system. The first Gundam pilots were royalty; they weren't enlighten afterwards with the funding of Gjallarhorn
If I'm not mistaken, it's been described before that the war lasted a long time before the Gundams were made. Specifically, McGillis' exposition dialogue with Gaelio late on in Season 1.

Mobile suits in general were created as a counter to mobile armors after they went rogue but it was also noted that the war lasted for a long time and the Gundams have been noted to only appear during the end section. The Rodi Frames for example was noted to have been created during the middle section of the war and was the most plentiful units to have been fielded.

And I don't believe it's ever been stated that the Gundams were ever developed as a contingency in case mobile armors went rogue. Like the Valkyrie Frames, they were more of a later response done to break down the deadlock that already existed, which they eventually succeeded. A lot of other models like the Hexa and the Rodis were fielded first before the Gundams were deployed and ended the war.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk

Post by Amion » Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:36 pm

Of course, as we know from MSG, just because they appeared "late" doesn't mean they weren't around for the fireworks, or weren't there to MAKE them, shall we say.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk

Post by E08 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:10 am

Manual time for Hekija: 1, 2

Missing info in the english text:
*MS profile
-The number of test machines are limited.
-Improvement in the ease of operation is influenced by the increasing use of human debris, necessitating a counter to the Alaya-Vijnana system.

Correction:
*Teiwaz Frame
-However, like the Shiden, the frame of the Hekija is purely Teiwaz-made, from the crafting of the component metals to design and assembly, except for the Ahab Reactor power supply.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk

Post by YokozunaBulldozer » Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:10 am

For those interested in where the name Hekija originates from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bixie

It is a chimeric guardian beast-type creature of sorts from Asia.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk

Post by SonicSP » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:52 am

So I've been reading some J-Wiki entries of IBO and may have found a few interesting things.

[Disclaimer: this all assumes the information is transcribed correctly to the article from the original source and my translation is accurate - which may not necessarily 100% the case.]

The bolded translation lines are all cited to be from Gundam IBO Mechanics and World sourcebook. Don't know whether they're word for word quotes since I'm just taking this from the J-Wiki article.

I)A line from the Ahab Reactor section:

"Durability is extremely high and physical destruction is impossible. Continues to generate energy semi-perpetually during operation"

The durability thing I've heard from some before from various forums but good to narrow it down to a specific source. Didn't find any mention on how or where it's made though.

II) The formation process of the Ahab Waves. The first line describes it:

"Magnetic storms arising from fundamental forces born from decay of Ahab Particles, which diffuse at ultra high speed."

Basically a simple description on what it is during the moment of creation. That they come from Ahab Particles isn't new info, the older sourcebook called G-Mechanics Spring 2016 already mentioned that they are "generated from Ahab Particles". However the decay part seems to confirm that the Ahab Particle needs to die/consumed for it to be appear, which isn't totally clear before I guess.

III) The other info concerns something called Ahab Thruster, which frankly I've never heard off before:

"Thruster used for inertial flight and attitude control of MS. While it is inferior to the main propulsion systems of MS and large ships (thermal phase transition thruster), It excels in energy efficiency because it emits elementary particles/fundamental forces of Ahab Waves with directionality in order to obtain thrust."

(I may have screwed the grammar or ordering of the last line, that one is a little complex)

So this is interesting, it seems that Ahab Reactors can do propulsion, though not the main one, just for orientation. I assume that's useful technology for long deep space voyages since they are semi perpetual.

I have no idea what a thermal phase transition thruster (the main propulsion system) is though, doesn't that sound like a regular thruster? They certainly look like regular thrusters in the show anyways.

=======

So from all this, I believe the assumes of all the Ahab Reactor info would go something like this (with me adding some of my own words): Each Ahab Reactor has a vacuum device within it. The quantum vacuum is (somehow) forced to phase transition into a lower energy state, which releases Ahab Particles among other things. The Ahab Particles generates gravity/can be made to generate gravity and eventually will decay, creating fundamental interactions that makes the magnetic storms that are Ahab Waves.

Also sort of implies that the Ahab Particles cannot switch back and forth to Ahab Waves I guess, so no Wave-Particle Duality here I guess?

I assume the reactor is semi perpetual because it can just convert it from the quantum vacuum around it. Not unlike GN Drives which are fueled by its surrounding byronic matter.

Just as a refresh on the main Ahab technology stuff so far:

Ahab Particles are used for gravity generation, G-Force reduction and creating the Gamma Nanolaminate structure on Asteroth's Nanolaminate Sword.

Ahab Waves are used for jamming, signature, inertial thrusters, electronic damage.

No word yet on what powers beam weapons to my knowledge.

Multiple sources all contradict each other on what powers Nanolaminate Armor. The manuals say Ahab Particles while an interview and at least one sourcebook says Ahab Waves. I personally go with Ahab Particles because Mark mentioned the kit manuals tend to be more closer to Bandai and in addition it also makes more sense given Asteroth's Nanolaminate Sword is powered by them.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk

Post by E08 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:22 am

Official site updated. According to the Riden-Go's profile, it uses the short shields on the arms as knuckle guards and excels at super close combat. Nothing much new for Hekija, it is very easy to pilot, and its feet can transform for high mobility combat.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk

Post by Shinji_Shinigami » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:10 am

I have a quesiton about the Rodi Frame. We have several different mobile suits that use that frame, and it was statet to be one of the most used frames of all times. The landman Rodi, who is "just" a land customized version of the Brewers Rodi frame and is heavy and one would expect to be clumsy, yet they are quiet agile. The Garm Rodi, which in my opinion is a mixture between ofense and defense, as well as the spinner rodi which also has a bit of heavyness and clumsyness in its design. Given all these designs, i wonder what an original Rodi was build like? Were they truly so grunty units or is it just that most of those units are equipped / reconstructed in a poorly manner?

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