The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk II

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SonicSP
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk

Post by SonicSP » Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:01 am

I have a question about something that's been bugging me for awhile now. Does the close range for guns to do damage thing actually apply in zero-G space? I'm terrible at understanding how force works. We know that it's a fact in the show but is that accurate?

We know that guns in IBO are able to damage at close enough ranges. It was mentioned in Episode 5, where Biscuit notes that they would not be able to pierce Barbatos's Nanolaminated Armor from afar, referring of course to Barbatos' battle with the Gjallahorn Grazes that was occurring at that time in space. This is shown in other instances as well such as in the first battle against the Gusion, where Mika commented that his gun wasn't able to pierce the Gusion's thicker armor even though he was at close range. So we know that closer range = more damage thing applies in space as well in the show.

Now, I think can sort of see how it works at point blank range (such as how Barbatos did it in Episode 5), where I assume most of the force coming out of the barrel will hit that spot and do enough damage to the body, which would have been not hit if it was not point blank. But if we're talking about beyond the effective range of an IBO gun, does the bullet have less/loses force by the time it reaches outside the effective-range and is this the reason the bullet doesn't do damage anymore against the armor? Is that how it would work?

I assume after a certain point, the bullet is just going to have constant momentum as it travels in space forever (space particle drag, light momentum, going near a large gravitational body, etc notwithstanding) so anything it hits after that point would just have the same force. Would be interested to see what other posters will say on the matter because I've been thinking about it a lot lately as I rewatch the battles in the show and not sure what the actual case would be.
Brave Fencer Kirby wrote:Regarding particles and waves, generally speaking waves are made of moving particles (eg, a sound wave is made up of moving air), but when you get down to the level of quantum-level phenomenon (like photons and, presumably, Ahab particles), they act like both a particle and a wave in different circumstances. The fact that this makes no damn sense doesn't keep it from being true: it's called wave-particle duality and is one of the weirder things about quantum physics.

Presumably the fact that they switch back and forth between "Ahab waves" and "Ahab particles" is a result of this. It's the same thing either way, but because physics is crazy, sometimes it's easier to talk about it one way or the other.
When we first saw that both terms Ahab Waves and Ahab Particles appearing I speculated that they one possibility is that be changing between one another because of Wave-Particle Duality (I'm no expert on this complex and confusing phenomena but I know a little bit about it). I'm kinda happy that they sort of went this direction by acknowledging both, since Wave-Particle Duality is not a subject that Gundam physics lore has touched before this.

Although I don't think it is confirmed yet that Ahab Waves can change back and forth from Ahab Particles in the way that something like light can act as either a wave or a particle.

At the moment, we only know that Ahab Waves originated from Ahab Particles, but whether they can change back is not confirmed yet. It might still be possible that Ahab Waves and Ahab Particles are two distinct things with their own respective particle and wave forms. Maybe each are called "Wave" and "Particle" respectively because their special property only appears in that form, as opposed to being called something like Ahab Particle Type 1 and Ahab Particle Type 2.

Though I think it would just be unnecessarily complicated for them to go that route, so what you said about them being the same thing that has specific properties when it's being measured as a wave or particle sounds more simpler and likely in my opinion.

I am personally very interested in seeing them elaborate more on this in the future.......though maybe they'll just forget about it and leave it at that.
balofo wrote:You're right about everything.

BTW the 1/100 Grimgerd doesn't seem to have any new info. It doesn't mention the material of the blades.
Thanks for verifying that, appreciate it. Also, unfortunate that they didn't give us anything new with the 1/100 Grimgerde.
Last edited by SonicSP on Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:18 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk

Post by SonicSP » Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:02 am

Accidental double post while trying to edit the the above post. My bad. Hit Quote instead of Edit and didn't realize it.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk

Post by FinalSin66 » Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:10 am

In space distance has little effect on force, but distance dose effect accuracy. Now with the Guison point blank or a mile those shells were not gonna get through, between how thick it was and nano armor. Now graze rifles prob do more damage through multiple shots hitting close to the same point on the armor, but at a distance full auto and barrel imperfecions, moving target, no way at a distance graze rifle is gonna do the damage cause only 1 or 2 rounds in a burst would hit if at all, and the nanolamante armor can handle that.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk

Post by MayflyOfSpace » Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:00 pm

Looks like we got some more MS info from the upcoming sidestory popping up:

http://www.taghobby.com/wp-content/uplo ... 160604.jpg

Clearly it's a variant of/ based on the same frame as the Hyakuren. Now does that mean it's owned by Teiwaz? Probably. I have a feeling that Amida and some of the Turbines might make an appearance in the manga, based on the fact that this machine has the same -/AC designation that Amida's custom Hyakuren has. So maybe it's the same machine, but upgraded, or something she piloted before the series or something. Do we know yet if the manga is set concurrently with the show, or if it takes before/after?

Anyways, the mobile suit is alright in my book. I definitely like it over the standard Hyakuren, except for that head. It seems a little silly. Pretty sure this is some sort of recon/black ops type MS, judging by the details it brings up about the head.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk

Post by balofo » Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:02 pm

MayflyOfSpace wrote:Looks like we got some more MS info from the upcoming sidestory popping up:

http://www.taghobby.com/wp-content/uplo ... 160604.jpg

Clearly it's a variant of/ based on the same frame as the Hyakuren. Now does that mean it's owned by Teiwaz? Probably. I have a feeling that Amida and some of the Turbines might make an appearance in the manga, based on the fact that this machine has the same -/AC designation that Amida's custom Hyakuren has. So maybe it's the same machine, but upgraded, or something she piloted before the series or something. Do we know yet if the manga is set concurrently with the show, or if it takes before/after?

Anyways, the mobile suit is alright in my book. I definitely like it over the standard Hyakuren, except for that head. It seems a little silly. Pretty sure this is some sort of recon/black ops type MS, judging by the details it brings up about the head.
MSV info will be posted on its own thread here: http://www.mechatalk.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=16900

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk

Post by MayflyOfSpace » Fri Apr 22, 2016 3:07 pm

balofo wrote:MSV info will be posted on its own thread here: http://www.mechatalk.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=16900

Woops, my bad. Didn't realize there was a second topic for this.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk

Post by balofo » Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:25 am

From HJ:
-Graze Ein's machineguns are 40mm
-Spinner Rodi's melee weapon is called Boost Hammer. It also has 4 Anchor Pods equipped on its legs.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk

Post by amagee2100 » Fri May 13, 2016 11:24 pm

I'm trying to figure out something but I'm getting confused:

Do Ahab particles beget waves or vice versa? Also, which help with making nanolaminate armor effective?

It seems that there is some source people keep referencing but I guess I missed it somewhere. If someone might be able to clarify, I'd much appreciate it.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk

Post by SonicSP » Sat May 14, 2016 1:24 am

Ahab Reactors make Ahab Particles, which in turn makes Ahab Waves. The statement sort of runs like that.

The inverse might be possible and some of us are speculating it due to a quantum physics concept called "Particle-Wave Duality" but it's not been directly stated yet in the actual source materials. In other words, it's just speculation for now. All we know is that Ahab Waves originates from Ahab Particles.

As for which one powers Nanolaminated Armor, the sources are contradictory. Two sources mention Ahab Waves whereas one other source mentions Ahab Particles.

========

There is no clear official guideline on which grey-level sidematerial has priority but Mark usually likes to say that model kit manual usually beat other grey source materials. In this case, model kit manual (specifically the HiRM 1/100 Barbatos) mentions Ahab Particles. The other two are from sourcebooks.

Gundam's canon system is pretty subjective as opposed to objective so it really doesn't matter that much. You can choose to believe either one if you want since neither is white level official material (which is stuff that happens in the anime).

Hope that clears things up a bit.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk

Post by E08 » Sat May 14, 2016 4:11 am

Released pictures of the 1/100 Kimaris Trooper included a shot showing an unknown equipment hidden in the chest. Link: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-8fRo-Dov-Pc/ ... 555345.jpg

Also, we have the names of two of Rouei's weapon: Short Rifle (the handgun-like weapon) and Heavy Club. Link: https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-mi3_KtevW38/ ... led-80.jpg

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk

Post by amagee2100 » Sun May 15, 2016 9:02 pm

SonicSP wrote:
Hope that clears things up a bit.
I appreciate summing it up for me. I was trying to figure everything out just going through the forum and I was getting a little confused.

I know about the issues with sources a lot of time with Gundam; I actually run a panel on Gundam canon shenanigans myself.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk

Post by balofo » Tue May 31, 2016 7:40 pm

IBO Mechanics and World mook incoming in July

Time for remaining specs and lineart

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk

Post by E08 » Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:03 pm

The new information presented in the 1/100 Graze Custom manual is about the Graze Ground Type. The thigh thrusters are large hover units, they are designed for use in the earth's 1G environment and atmospheric pressure, and to achieve high mobility. Support-use hover units are present in the bottom of the suit's feet, they are for stable posture control and fine adjustment of the suit's thrust.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk

Post by balofo » Sun Jun 12, 2016 11:23 pm

3 silhouettes for S2 MS were shown at Gundam Live Expo, we should see those soon.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk

Post by BrentD15 » Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:59 am

balofo wrote:3 silhouettes for S2 MS were shown at Gundam Live Expo, we should see those soon.
Sweet! :D
Anyone have any images of these silhouettes?
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk

Post by Shinji_Shinigami » Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:36 am

Well given the end of the first season, do you think we will see an vast improvement of the MS technology? I believe that one goals of Mr. Backstab was that the progress of MS deployment was further fueled. So if a timeskip is there, it would be the perfect chance to sneak in for example beam technology and mabye other stuff, that is not gundam classy at all.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk

Post by yazi88 » Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:41 am

I believe the main mechanical designer said that there will be no beam weapons in this show, whether that meant 1st season or the whole show overall remains to be seen...

Besides... how will beam weaponry come out from nowhere? There has been nothing to show that the tech even exists... If it did, it'll take a good number of years, probably even above 5 years to experiment and produce beam weaponry in this world where mobile suit tech has been around for over 300 years.

If mobile suits have been around for that long, beam weaponry would've been feasible by now or atleast be on the ships. 00 was a exception cause of GN science that was way advanced and even that took decades to perfect.

This is my speculation though.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk

Post by Shinji_Shinigami » Thu Jun 23, 2016 7:36 am

yazi88 wrote: Besides... how will beam weaponry come out from nowhere? There has been nothing to show that the tech even exists... If it did, it'll take a good number of years, probably even above 5 years to experiment and produce beam weaponry in this world where mobile suit tech has been around for over 300 years.

If mobile suits have been around for that long, beam weaponry would've been feasible by now or atleast be on the ships. 00 was a exception cause of GN science that was way advanced and even that took decades to perfect.
.
Well I believe that a lot of technology was lost during the war, and that the Techonology that was used by the Governments was not as researched as it could be, because there was no need. At least openly, that is. We've seen that they conducted research that the public had no idea of. So with the situation created by MCgillis maybe that tech will surface....or resurface. Plus there were never details about the war or what was used in the war. We've not seen all gundam frames yet or what else was build.

That of course leaves the Authors with every posibility. But in the end, we will see when the season arrives or we get some intel beforehand.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk

Post by Amion » Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:03 am

My thoughts on Lunar Steel or whatever S2 is called is that some kind of more advanced weapon is possible. Some here want to see Ahab particle cannons, which would basically be gravity based weapons, an awesome possibility. We know the Moon got severely damaged, and that means either Sumesawa popped in to give the Snow White a test run and didn't fix it afterward, or some serious weapons were being used.

I highly doubt nukes could damage the moon so badly, which makes me believe it was gravity munitions getting thrown around, which could easily rip chunks of moonrock off for mining or whatever.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk

Post by Deacon Blues » Sat Jul 02, 2016 7:59 pm

BrentD15 wrote:
balofo wrote:3 silhouettes for S2 MS were shown at Gundam Live Expo, we should see those soon.
Sweet! :D
Anyone have any images of these silhouettes?
http://i.imgur.com/hz8u1QS.jpg

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