Gundam Virtue firepower and more

[Wingnut]

I think it would be safe to assume that they're tactical warheads with VERY high yields for that type. At least several dozen kilotons, quite likely several hundred kilotons.

They could also be IRVs from a MIRV tipped ICBM. Those have a yield in that range, IIRC, and are small enough to be loaded on a mobile suit.

[kingjr9000]

Wow! Those two with their nukes are definitely in the league of WMDs with that kind of damage. Thanks a lot guys for answering all of my questions. I knew i came to the right forum for what I wanted. So far with the information I've received, the 00 raiser and quanta are climbing to the top place of my favorites list, but wing zero will always have a place as my first gundam. I have a theory and question regarding the CB mothership main cannon, the memento mori, the els gnx-iv, and els 00 quan[t].

Disclaimer: My all-time favorite series is zeta, so I don't want anyone thinking I'm a 00 fanboy. Ok, we know that a lot of people like to claim that the els 00 quanta is technically the weakest gundam since it doesn't have any weapons and all it can do is make flowers grow, right? But what if the creators already gave us hints as to what it can do. We already know the mothership main gun is powered by a gn tau in trans-am, and a gn tau is weaker than a true drive. I looked on the wiki, but it never said whether the 80mm cannon or memento mori is more powerful. I personally think the memento is more powerful since it was not only able to destroy an entire fleet like the 80m was, but it was also able to obliterate a small country in the middle east. However, given the possibility that the 80m is more powerful, then that is even better for the main theory especially since it runs off a tau drive. I also would like to know if the memento or 80m cannon are close to the power output of a U.C. colony laser or the C.E. genesis. We know the ELS are able to assimilate and shape-shift into whatever they have memorized, such as when the ElS version of the gnx is able to morph its limbs into various beam weapons that the gnx series use. What if the ELS quanta is able to do the same thing?

There is also something mentioned on the wiki how the tau drive of the gnx might be enhanced. I don't know if they're stating that it can crank out more and that it can function like a true drive can, or if they're just saying that its easier to use since it has fewer parts. But if they're saying that the ELS upgraded it to the point that it can function like a true drive without the td blanket the true drive use, then I wonder what kind of enhancements the 00 quanta received to it's drive system when it merged. If the ELS quanta is able to morph its limbs into various weapons and we know that it has the true twin drive system and its particle output is more than the tau drive even in trans-am, then couldn't it be stronger than the regular quanta? Hypothetically, what if it was still connected to veda and access to all of the weapons in veda's history and was able to morph into any of them...including a weapon that could crank out similar output of the 80m or the memento, wouldn't it be more powerful than the regular quanta? We also know that unlike the regular quanta, the ELS version can instantly teleport anywhere, right? What if we got creative and it could also teleport its beams à la, Turn A. I know that part is 99% speculation, but i just wanted to imagine that its possible considering the copy and enhancing abilities of the ELS. Hypothetically, what if the reason the creators of 00 never gave the ELS quanta a complete description is because it can do everything from within the A.D. timeline because its linked to veda and it has the copy ability? Yes, I know that is purely fan-made, but what if it was true? That would be really crazy, right?

[SonicSP]

Even speculatively, it's really hard to make a claim about ELS Qan(T), on whether it's the strongest Gundam or the weakest Gundam because we know very little about it or what it has been through in the time Setsuna was away.

But what you're saying has been thought off before. Because ELS Qan(T) is at least partially ELS, all the things about its morphing abilities may be possible though nothing is certain for sure. That's why it's such a wild card though and is a difficult thing to discuss in debates.

There is also something mentioned on the wiki how the tau drive of the gnx might be enhanced. I don't know if they're stating that it can crank out more and that it can function like a true drive can, or if they're just saying that its easier to use since it has fewer parts.

We don't know whether a Tau Drive has less parts or not though. Ian's quick analysis of the Thrones in the anime implies that the TD Blanket is just missing but the HG Drei manual elaborates that its been replaced by something casually described as an "energy converter".

The actual physical size of GN Drive units (Original or Tau) vary greatly depending on the "drive chassis" they happen to be equiped with anyways, since the core components are really small. The chassis that the Main Season 1 Gundams use are all much larger than the chassis that the Main Season 2 Gundams use. This is because they took core components and placed them in different smaller chassis. If you want a visual comparison, look at the cylinder that Nadleeh ejected in S1-25 and compared with 00 Gundam's cones, the latter are much smaller. Celestial Being was able to do this because they improved their drive chassis technology which allowed them to make smaller chassis to put the core components in.

An Original GN Drive runs on an unspecified type of topological defect, and in this case, is specifically harnessed from Jupiter (and theoretically you can find them at other places with high gravitational fields) and stored within the TD Blanket. I know the ELS are capable of a lot of things but even creating these topological defects from scratch should be beyond them in theory.

What is more likely is that the ELS is producing electricity and providing it to the GN Drive Tau through whatever energy storage or mechanism they use to power themselves (generating electricity should be extremely easy for them), which then creates the the particles. A GN Drive Tau is wholly artificial and should be easy to recreate with their shape shifting compared to giving it a natural topological defect, which would be pretty out there - even with all the stuff and abilities we have seen them use in the movie.

There's really nothing special about the Original Drives anyways, aside from the fact that they have unlimited operational time. Even the Original Drives having higher output is really probably more likely to be due to energy limitation issues related to Tau Drives. If the ELS can provide their energy to power the Tau Drives, they're almost as good. The only weakness I can think off would be in Trans Am, where they're heavily damaged/destroyed after use in S2, but some of the portrayals in the movie (like Raphael and the Solbrave's ship) implies that the issue may have been fixed or at least mitigated by 2314.

[Seto Kaiba]

They could also be IRVs from a MIRV tipped ICBM. Those have a yield in that range, IIRC, and are small enough to be loaded on a mobile suit.

Very unlikely, IMO... the way they're drawn in ∀ Gundam and Mobile Suit Gundam 0083: Stardust Memory (based on the line art in the ∀ Gundam liner notes and Entertainment Bible 45) they appear to be stand-alone warheads. The one loaded into the RX-78GP02A looked like the "Fat Man" bomb from WW2 with a rocket booster stapled to the back end, while the two carried by the ∀ Gundam looked for all the world like the VF-1 Valkyrie's AMM-1A missiles from Macross.

Ok, we know that a lot of people like to claim that the els 00 quanta is technically the weakest gundam since it doesn't have any weapons and all it can do is make flowers grow, right?

I've... never said that. It's living metal, so it may well be able to spontaneously generate its own weapons as needed (like a scarier version of the liquid metal robot from Terminator 2), and since it's already generating its own GN particles long range weaponry probably isn't off the table the way it was for the Terminator.

But wI looked on the wiki, but it never said whether the 80mm cannon or memento mori is more powerful. I personally think the memento is more powerful since it was not only able to destroy an entire fleet like the 80m was, but it was also able to obliterate a small country in the middle east.

My impression, based on onscreen performance and the power system being used, would be that the Memento Mori is probably significantly more powerful. It has, potentially, the power of an entire planetary-scale solar array behind it, whereas the 80m-class GN laser is dependent on expending the power of a GN Drive Tau.

I also would like to know if the memento or 80m cannon are close to the power output of a U.C. colony laser or the C.E. genesis.

That's a hard thing to say... the only source I know of that quantifies the output power of one of Gundam's nontraditional superweapons is Mobile Suit Gundam: the Origin Vol.11.

The problem with that one account is the dialog redundantly lists the output in terms of gigawatts per second, while a watt is ALREADY a "per second" measurement (1 watt = 1 joule per second).

What we get for the Zeon colony laser was (corrected units) 85,000,000 gigajoules per second for three seconds of continuous discharge... a release of energy of 255,000,000 gigajoules, or around the same amount of energy as a 60.95 megaton nuclear detonation. The Celestial Being's big GN laser doesn't seem to be quite in that category of nuclear apocalyptic death, while Memento Mori was probably somewhat less powerful than the colony laser, since the solar array didn't collect a solid 1/2 of all light reaching Earth. (Typically equivalent to 174PW.) Genesis definitely takes the cake there, since it can allegedly destroy Earth's entire biosphere in one shot.

What if the ELS quanta is able to do the same thing?

I would count on it being able to, honestly (I noted as much above).

[kingjr9000]

Thanks guys for answering my question. I hope this is my last question since I'm starting to run out of things that weren't able to be answered by the wiki. On to the Hi-v and the Axis asteroid. I've read up as much as I could find out about the Hi-v and the HWS and its weapons, but could you tell me if Beltorchika's Children, a mechanical book, or any of the kit manuals say anything extra compared to whats on the wiki? I know that when the hyper mega bazooka launcher was connected the ships reactor, it was able to destroy a part of axis. Did it destroy half of axis, one-third of axis, or one-forth or more of axis? Because if it was half, then depending on how big axis is, would that make the Hi-v a supplementary colony buster since it has to be with a ship to do it unlike the DX and Wing zero? I've looked around for information on the size of axis and I couldn't find any. So was there anything in any of the books about it?

In regards to the HWS, I've read about it's beam rifle having variable output from a regular beam rifle to rivaling a battleships mega particle cannon. So would that make it equal to or stronger than the beam magnum on the Unicorn? What about it's hyper mega rifle? Its claimed to have the power to destroy anything at maximum output, but I'd like to doubt that would put it on wing zero colony buster level considering the regular beam rifle was already at battleship mega particle cannon power. But if it was, would that make it like a miniature HMBL? What about it's hyper mega shield? They also claim to have mega particle cannons. So is the HWS just mega particle cannon redundancy personified, or are they all useful in different scales?

I've read that some people on other sites and forums have said that the Unicorn is stronger and a better MS than the Hi-v, but I don't thinks so. Besides it's speed with psyco-frame, psycommu jack, short-lived beam magnum, four beam sabers, and two gattling guns, it really doesn't have much for armaments. I'm not really going to even include the full-armor package since its mostly just live ammo, and can't be refilled while on the battlefield without having its ship nearby. I personally think its not much better than the zeta and could be beaten by the zz. Yes, I know the zeta's beam rifle can also run out of energy, but it would probably take longer. I've only watched the first few episodes of zz gundam, but could anyone tell me if the zz ran out of power for its double-barrel rifle? I don't think it runs off of e-caps so it shouldn't run out. While the Unicorn comes with those, the Hi-v comes with: a beam rifle, three beam sabers, six fin funnels, a hyper bazooka like unicorn, and a shield with another beam cannon in it and some missiles. If I recall correctly, I remember reading somewhere on this forum how during the CCA era, MS's were able to recharge or refuel their beam rifles via handplugs. If thats true, then the Hi-v won't run out of ammo unlike the Unicorn. Don't get me wrong, Im not saying the Unicorn is a bad suit in any way. Im just saying they missed an opportunity to give it more than just some basic and bland armaments. Whats your opinion on the Unicorn and its armaments compared to other main character suits throughout the gundam series?

[Dark Duel]

Stronger? Better? That's arguable. What is not arguable is that the Unicorn, despite the comparative simplicity of its armaments, is specifically designed as an anti-Newtype mobile suit. NT-D does, after all, stand for "NewType Destroyer"

The explicit purpose of the NT-D is to enable the Unicorn to engage and defeat Newtype-use mobile weapons - such as the Kshatriya, which has roughly four times the firepower of the nu/Hi-nu Gundam. For instance, the Destroy Mode Unicorn is able to, among other things, essentially hijack the funnels of an enemy mobile suit and use them against that enemy mobile suit. So Hi-nu vs Destroy Mode Unicorn is going to end very badly for the Hi-nu. But this is not a versus thread.

As for the HML, which is a Beltorchika's Children-only weapon system, I have no idea because I have never read Beltorchika's Children, either in novel or manga form(I do know that both exist). And as it requires an external power supply, much like the Hyaku Shiki's Mega Bazooka Launcher, it is a highly impractical weapon to be used in any situation except the situation in which it was used in BC, which was to target a large, relatively stationary object. Beyond that, no idea. As for these claims about its other weapons, "destroy anything" is a completely meaningless/spurious statement. I have never seen any of these claims being stated anywhere verifiable for any nu or Hi-nu weapons. But maybe Mark/toysdream will know more.

[E08]

Just like any wiki, it may be best to take what you read on the Gundam wiki with a grain of salt. As for the Hyper Mega Rifle, the Nu Gundam HWS used a similar if not identical weapon, and the Nu Gundam HWS' model kit manual noted that its power at the maximum output is comparable to that of several mega particle cannons on a battleship. So, no, it does not have the power to destroy anything. The Hyper Mega Rifle also has some features that allow it to be used for super long range sniping.

[Seto Kaiba]

I've read up as much as I could find out about the Hi-v and the HWS and its weapons, but could you tell me if Beltorchika's Children, a mechanical book, or any of the kit manuals say anything extra compared to whats on the wiki? I know that when the hyper mega bazooka launcher was connected the ships reactor, it was able to destroy a part of axis. Did it destroy half of axis, one-third of axis, or one-forth or more of axis?

It's been a while, but IIRC in Mobile Suit Gundam: Beltorchika's Children the RX-93-v2's Hi-ν Gundam's hyper mega bazooka launcher was connected to the Ra Cailum's Minovsky reactor to boost its firepower for a Londo Bell-led effort to halt Axis's advance towards Earth by disabling the station's nuclear pulse engines.

Unfortunately, we can't say how potent the powered-up hyper mega bazooka launcher was... the Neo Zeon forces successfully prevented the shot from hitting Axis by using a Musaka-class carrier as a shield, so it clearly wasn't THAT powerful.

In regards to the HWS, I've read about it's beam rifle having variable output from a regular beam rifle to rivaling a battleships mega particle cannon. So would that make it equal to or stronger than the beam magnum on the Unicorn?

I'll confess I don't recall it being a variable-output weapon in Beltorchika's Children... but it HAS been a while.

I would assume the Unicorn's beam magnum is more powerful since it's burning an entire e-pack with every shot, and the Hi-v's isn't expending nearly as much per shot.

I've read that some people on other sites and forums have said that the Unicorn is stronger and a better MS than the Hi-v, but I don't thinks so.

Isn't the question academic, since they belong to different timelines?

Also, since the Unicorn is a more developed full-psycoframe mobile suit developed specifically to destroy newtypes and subvert newtype specialist hardware, wouldn't that tend to make it superior to the newtype-dependent Hi-v by default?

Besides it's speed with psyco-frame, psycommu jack, short-lived beam magnum, four beam sabers, and two gattling guns, it really doesn't have much for armaments. I'm not really going to even include the full-armor package since its mostly just live ammo, and can't be refilled while on the battlefield without having its ship nearby. I personally think its not much better than the zeta and could be beaten by the zz. Yes, I know the zeta's beam rifle can also run out of energy, but it would probably take longer. I've only watched the first few episodes of zz gundam, but could anyone tell me if the zz ran out of power for its double-barrel rifle?

Eh... no. Not even close. The RX-0 demonstrates in its own show that it's a lot more potent a mobile suit than the Zeta family of mobile suits, and the ZZ is kind of a glass cannon with zero endurance. Running out of power was a frequent occurrence for the ZZ... practically its chief weakness in its native series. Fire that big gun once and they're practically running on fumes thereafter.

If I recall correctly, I remember reading somewhere on this forum how during the CCA era, MS's were able to recharge or refuel their beam rifles via handplugs.

The hand plugs are to supply power to the beam rifle for firing, AFAIK... not recharging... and they're a pretty ubiquitous feature (present even during the OYW).

[kingjr9000]

Thanks a lot everyone for the information and assistance! I'll just necro the thread or make a new one if I have anymore.

[Mimeblade]

Do you know if the EW custom's TBR is stronger than the regular wing zero's, or are they both about the same?

They're the same weapon.

I'd argue they aren't... as I recall GoL's Buster Rifle had only 8 or 9 shots (compare that to the E-cap-based Beam Magnum).

It never really officially states how many shots a Twin Buster has.

Also, Proto Zero and Wing Zero Custom are 'officially' different suits.

I'd think the Twin Buster used by Proto is different from the Twin Buster used by Zero Custom, to say nothing of the Drei Zwerg Messer/Doppelt.

[Arsarcana]

That's why when I responded I pointed out that if you don't count GoL, they're effectively the exact same weapon because they're the exact same suit. See how the start of Endless Waltz shows the 'new' versions of the suits participating in the final battle of the TV series and all that. Though even if you do factor GoL in, the output of the TBRs should be more or less the same as long as you leave the Zwerg parts off.