PMX-000 Messala strange specs

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Jameedaark
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PMX-000 Messala strange specs

Post by Jameedaark » Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:59 am

Hi, about MS of Zeta Gundam, there are some that have very low thrust in comparison of what you see on the anime.
One of this is the Messala.
In the descriprion from gundam wikia:
"The Messala was the first of five mobile weapons personally produced by the powerful Newtype Paptimus Scirocco on board the transport ship Jupitris. Originally the Messala was used to fly in the atmosphere of Jupiter and thus it was equipped with powerful thrusters to fly under Jupiter’s high gravitational pull. Because of this, when used under Earth’s atmosphere, the Messala was extremely fast and agile."

But in the specs you find a max acceleration of 1.08G and a thrust of 16000Kgx6.

Where is "very fast and agile" with this total thrust?

Many rocket motors not accounted? And the two big binder with the six thrusters: 16000 is very little for their dimension.

What do you think?

J

Massignifico
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Re: PMX-000 Messala strange specs

Post by Massignifico » Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:30 pm

You made the same thread not long ago, what's the point?

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Jameedaark
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Re: PMX-000 Messala strange specs

Post by Jameedaark » Fri Sep 25, 2015 4:28 pm

The point is to exchange infos and ideas... ;)

And search if anyone can guess of have found some other data about the MS which specs seems odd and wrong...

Massignifico
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Re: PMX-000 Messala strange specs

Post by Massignifico » Sat Sep 26, 2015 4:48 am

Well from the show we know that the Messala is powerful enough to deploy solo to fight the Aeug fleet but for some reason Scirocco discards it (after a training duel with Jerid and Mouar) and gives it first to Sarah, who gets hit by Fa (from all people) and Reccoa. It disappears (probably because its specs are more suited to solo combat than supporting The-O) and is probably destroyed along the Jupitris.

It surely looks like an impressive machine but it never got to show its worth save from the Z Gundam opening from Gundam Extreme VS Full Boost where Scirocco uses it to fight off both the Z and the Hyakushiki.

So the specs are stupid and actually the Messala is a very powerful MS. The wikia claims it can fly in Jupiter but I don't believe so, it most probably can be used in the gravital pull of the planet (like the Crossbones) but not in the atmosphere (and what is to point to build a machine like that? There is nothing to attack in Jupiter's atmosphere).

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MythSearcher
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Re: PMX-000 Messala strange specs

Post by MythSearcher » Sat Sep 26, 2015 12:11 pm

Massignifico wrote:Well from the show we know that the Messala is powerful enough to deploy solo to fight the Aeug fleet but for some reason Scirocco discards it (after a training duel with Jerid and Mouar) and gives it first to Sarah, who gets hit by Fa (from all people) and Reccoa. It disappears (probably because its specs are more suited to solo combat than supporting The-O) and is probably destroyed along the Jupitris.

It surely looks like an impressive machine but it never got to show its worth save from the Z Gundam opening from Gundam Extreme VS Full Boost where Scirocco uses it to fight off both the Z and the Hyakushiki.

So the specs are stupid and actually the Messala is a very powerful MS. The wikia claims it can fly in Jupiter but I don't believe so, it most probably can be used in the gravital pull of the planet (like the Crossbones) but not in the atmosphere (and what is to point to build a machine like that? There is nothing to attack in Jupiter's atmosphere).
Wouldn't it be a more reasonable assumption that the specs and the show tally each other and this is not a powerful MS, but a rather weak one thus getting abandoned early on?
It was designed for use in the Jupiter sphere, not atmosphere, BTW. And it was originally not for battle, but as a worker unit(作業用), Scirocco added weapons and a MS mode to it and you get a bravo looking TMS. All these addition might make it much heavier and thus rendered the thrust to mass ratio lowered.

I think its strength comes from it having very mobile thrusters and possibly rigid build(worker unit in high gravity area) and a relatively low empty mass. So if you rush in, spending a lot of propellant on the way achieving high velocity, make your attacks and do the hit and away tactics, the mass of the unit will have already become quite light and you get the high accleration you want when retreating.

Massignifico
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Re: PMX-000 Messala strange specs

Post by Massignifico » Sat Sep 26, 2015 1:59 pm

I knew that the Messala was an handmade TMA built by Scirocco (PMX-000 after all), is this new info or have I been deceived?

From MS Encyclopedia translated by Mark:
A transformable mobile armor developed by Paptimus Scirocco aboard the Jupitris. It is equipped with powerful thrusters in order to resist Jupiter's high gravity, and roughly 40 percent of this large machine is made up of booster and thruster units. The mega particle cannons housed in its booster units enable it to perform long-range attacks, and its transformation mechanisms allow it to change into mobile suit form for close combat. Thus this machine also excels as an anti-mobile suit weapon.

An excellent anti-mobile suit weapon, capable of long-range attacks and made mostly by thrusters doesn't seems that weak. But if your info is correct then is just a better built Gaza-C so it makes sense Scirocco lefts it in storage top develope better units

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MythSearcher
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Re: PMX-000 Messala strange specs

Post by MythSearcher » Mon Sep 28, 2015 7:54 am

Massignifico wrote:I knew that the Messala was an handmade TMA built by Scirocco (PMX-000 after all), is this new info or have I been deceived?

From MS Encyclopedia translated by Mark:
A transformable mobile armor developed by Paptimus Scirocco aboard the Jupitris. It is equipped with powerful thrusters in order to resist Jupiter's high gravity, and roughly 40 percent of this large machine is made up of booster and thruster units. The mega particle cannons housed in its booster units enable it to perform long-range attacks, and its transformation mechanisms allow it to change into mobile suit form for close combat. Thus this machine also excels as an anti-mobile suit weapon.

An excellent anti-mobile suit weapon, capable of long-range attacks and made mostly by thrusters doesn't seems that weak. But if your info is correct then is just a better built Gaza-C so it makes sense Scirocco lefts it in storage top develope better units
Better build Gaza-C is surely the right term.
I will say much better though.

I took the worker unit part from Encyclopaedia of Gundam Ver. 1.5.

It might have been given to some pilot unseen on screen rather than in storage, it is still a reasonably useful unit, just not as powerful as the later ones he made.(Although I must say that I am not really buying the design concept of Scirocco, especially The-O, the number of vernier thrusters make it look like using the concept of pre-OYW space fighter/MA concept which is proved to be a failure)

Massignifico
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Re: PMX-000 Messala strange specs

Post by Massignifico » Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:36 am

On The-O verniers: In other media (like Z Gundam novel or Kondo's manga adaption) the vernier holes are beam guns. Maybe it was in the original intentions of the designers but it didn't get shown in the series (like what happened to most G-Reco's mobile suits) and so they got retconned as verniers.

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