How is "Black History" defined?

[Alexeon]

That makes even less sense. I guess I can't really wrap my head around it that easily.

[Kuruni]

I just go with Decade's image. All timelines are connected when you view it from CC's perspective, but not so when view from their own timeline. And the UC timeline of the CC's Black History may not be the same with the UC timeline we known either.

[monster]

From CC's (or at least Turn A the show's) perspective, there is not even any need for connected timelines. As I recall, only images were shown of that history with no context given, so they might as well be their own series of past events that have nothing to do with any connection the audience might think they have with previous Gundam shows.

[Alexeon]

@monster, yeah that was what I meant in that CC's history might just be similar but not exactly UC's and AC, etc.

[Mimeblade]

I am more inclined to believe the latter is possible, in that "something happened" to merge all the timelines in to one timeline.

To me that makes more sense given the scene (near last episode of Turn A) of the Moonrace corporal screaming "Gundam", as he seemed to have been a soldier who was undergoing multiple Cryo-sleeps. (Certainly the "Wing Zero" face that appears in his head may not look the same as the real deal in AC/MC timeline... but the memory he has of seeing it might just be based on what he encountered as a derivative, and not the original)

Basically what I mean is, the Moonrace were victims of the Black History, so they experienced some of it to some extent, so if that is so, I'm inclined to believe that they encountered the weapons (Gundams) and their derivatives far in to the future because of that eventual "merging" of the timelines.

I'm not saying it makes sense, I'm just saying it's more convincing to me.

[MythSearcher]

That would seem to contradict what was said in this thread. Well, either way, it seems an unnecessary thing.

Anyway, if going by that multiple timelines image, I suppose CE and possibly all other newer timelines are not part of it.

well, the image I posted is not saying newer timelines are not part of CC, just that CE was rather new at the time and probably they prepared for more series to show, thus they did not link it to make it look more special.

I don't see the contradiction either, it just said everything is a part of black history, but didn't say how they are connected. Looking at a multiverse that can merge with each other isn't that strange to begin with. There was actually a similar period manga (破壊魔定光 started in 1999) having a similar concept of multiverse colliding into one,

Spoiler

and the protagonist antihero is actually fighting parallel world copies of himself because they are trying to save their own worlds from merging into this one and getting destroyed in the process.

I suspect there was a related Physics paper publicated in that period(or somehow made popular by the media during that time) and producers/mangaka got the multiverse merging idea at the time.

[Alexeon]

The thing is, Gundam is more grounded in real life physics than some soft sci-fi series. Yeah, Gundam has Newtypes and Minovsky particles, but aside from that, they try to be grounded in realism for the setting. Its a lot harder to accept Gundam pulling a "the multiverse is merging" than say Star Trek where anything goes.

[Mimeblade]

They "try" but it's not working.

Star Trek tries too, but again, it doesn't always work.

It's called too many writers spoiling the plot.

[monster]

I don't see the contradiction either

See the following statement from that thread:

all Gundam series shows, starting with Mobile Suit Gundam in 1979, exist in a single timeline.

Unless that statement is an incorrect/inaccurate translation/interpretation, it doesn't seem to be suggesting a merging of multiple timelines, but a single timeline from the beginning.

[MythSearcher]

The thing is, Gundam is more grounded in real life physics than some soft sci-fi series. Yeah, Gundam has Newtypes and Minovsky particles, but aside from that, they try to be grounded in realism for the setting. Its a lot harder to accept Gundam pulling a "the multiverse is merging" than say Star Trek where anything goes.

How soft can that be if it is from Quatum mechanics?
Especially we can possibly test if our own universe might be colliding(merging) with another universe?

See the following statement from that thread:

all Gundam series shows, starting with Mobile Suit Gundam in 1979, exist in a single timeline.

Unless that statement is an incorrect/inaccurate translation/interpretation, it doesn't seem to be suggesting a merging of multiple timelines, but a single timeline from the beginning.

If you ask me to translate that, it's more like, All Gundam starting from MSG, are on a single timeline, included in the same history, so to speak.
Which I take to be more like what is shown in the image I attached, they are now included in a single timeline, CC, but they were separate timelines for inclusion.

[Alexeon]

Based on stuff I read in the past, the big bang might have been caused by another universe colliding with this one, but colliding doesn't mean the same thing that we usually use the word for. Its not like two cars colliding, more like they interacted in a higher dimension and there might have been some transfer of energy.
Nothing suggests that two universes colliding would just merge anywhere near like what CC portrays.

Look, I know Tomino says that and word of god and all that, but if he literally means that, well... I only have so much suspension of disbelief and it makes the series (as a whole, all of Gundam) lose internal consistency.

[Kuruni]

There is no "big bang".

Big Bang Project is simply name for celebration of Gundam's 20th anniversary and Turn A is part of it.

[monster]

If you ask me to translate that, it's more like, All Gundam starting from MSG, are on a single timeline, included in the same history so to speak.
Thich I take to be more like what is shown in the image I attached, they are now included in a single timeline, CC, but they were separate timelines for inclusion.

That image clearly shows that all other shows except for Turn A occurred when the timelines were still separate (putting aside the fact that there's not even a connection with CE). If anything, a new timeline (where CC takes place) is created when some of these timelines merged together. So it would be inaccurate to say that all of these shows are on a single timeline if that image is correct.

In other words, if you were to say that events A, B, and C are on a single timeline, then there should be a single timeline in which you could do a single trace (either forward into the future or backward into the past) without doing any retrace and encounter all three events in any order.

[Alexeon]

There is no "big bang".

Big Bang Project is simply name for celebration of Gundam's 20th anniversary and Turn A is part of it.

I was talking about our world. It was one possible explanation put forward by some scientists a few years ago, but it illustrated what they meant by universes colliding.

[Kuruni]

...so we have theory that our universe is a child born of papa universe and mama universe? It sound so mundane that I think it's highly possible too (as well as explan why it's call "Big Bang" despite it shouldn't has any explosion).

[AmuroNT1]

Look, call me the party pooper, but the simple answer here is that neither Tomino nor anyone else official gave much care to exactly how the Black/Dark History is supposed to happen. They didn't puzzle for days trying to figure out in which order the shows happened, why there's no evidence of past universes, which characters are related to which others, or any of those bits of pointless minutae. It just HAPPENS.

It's like when someone asked one of Star Trek's technical writers how a certain piece of made-up equipment worked and he responded "It works quite well, thanks for asking." You can try to fan-wank out an explanation, but in the end that's all it'll be.

[Kuruni]

Look, call me the party pooper...

No, largely because I agree with you. IMO, Black History (including Turn A's origin era) is set up as myth background. Its effect remain to CC era, but we aren't suppose to know it in detail...to do that is to dispel its magic.

[Alexeon]

Yeah, I agree. It doesn't make sense but that doesn't mean we have the power to impose sense on it. Its Tomino's and the other writer's gig.

[monster]

So, I just read about this: https://nekketsunikki.wordpress.com/201 ... er-turn-a/

If that is a real and accurate translation, then it appears Tomino is saying that RC happened after CC.

[MythSearcher]

So, I just read about this: https://nekketsunikki.wordpress.com/201 ... er-turn-a/

If that is a real and accurate translation, then it appears Tomino is saying that RC happened after CC.

I mentioned that in anther thread(I think the G-self vs RX-0 Phenix one) that this is actually what he said, but might not be canon.(Tomino is famous for ranting strange things just to surprise you while completely ignoring what the original planning is)