What is the final word on Cosmic Era beam technology?

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teslashark
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What is the final word on Cosmic Era beam technology?

Post by teslashark » Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:03 pm

I ran into a rant about the design flaws of ZGMF-X42S Destiny:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD5OJd6i1uM
It is pretty entertaining and more in-depth than I imagined. Though, at 14:30, he argued that unlike UC beam sabers, CE beam sabers cannot clash into each other. I'm a bit behind the technical exposition since I stopped buying guidebooks a few years ago, so would anyone please tell me:
1. Is he correct?
2. The GINN's M69 Barrus heavy ion cannon is literally "Heavy (metal) Particle Cannon" in Japanese. Does this mean other beam weapons in CE fires accelerated, ionized heavy metal?
3. The Out Frame Astray/Testament has those "beam" signal flags that emits charged Mirage particles. Can I fire charged Mirage particles as a projectile, a la UC Mega particle cannon?
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Deathzealot
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Re: What is the final word on Cosmic Era beam technology?

Post by Deathzealot » Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:28 am

teslashark wrote:Though, at 14:30, he argued that unlike UC beam sabers, CE beam sabers cannot clash into each other.
Wait? What. Ummmmm there are several saber duels through out the series both SEED and Destiny. That is crap.

monster
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Re: What is the final word on Cosmic Era beam technology?

Post by monster » Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:49 pm

Deathzealot wrote:
teslashark wrote:Though, at 14:30, he argued that unlike UC beam sabers, CE beam sabers cannot clash into each other.
Wait? What. Ummmmm there are several saber duels through out the series both SEED and Destiny. That is crap.
Can you give a specific example? The scenes that I could recall do seem like they clash saber to shield.

And speaking of the nature of Cosmic Era beam technology:

1. For some reason, when the Destiny attempted to block the Infinite Justice's sabers with its hands, it seemed to have worked, which does not make any sense to me. The sabers should've just cut through the hands without waiting for the hands to make a grab, unless they really were being blocked by the hands' weapons, which still should've caused the explosion without the hands grabbing or should've won.

2. The Freedom was able to deflect beam shots with its saber.

Come to think of it, these two examples potentially show that there is at least some repelling effect, although it's uncertain whether that only works with beam shots or whether it also works with another beam saber.

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Re: What is the final word on Cosmic Era beam technology?

Post by teslashark » Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:10 pm

monster wrote:
1. For some reason, when the Destiny attempted to block the Infinite Justice's sabers with its hands, it seemed to have worked, which does not make any sense to me. The sabers should've just cut through the hands without waiting for the hands to make a grab, unless they really were being blocked by the hands' weapons, which still should've caused the explosion without the hands grabbing or should've won.
Do you mean the last fight? Destiny had its hand cannons activated, but they exploded pretty soon afterwards when they came into contact with the blade. I don't know if it is the particles colliding and exploding, or the blade just passed through.
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Re: What is the final word on Cosmic Era beam technology?

Post by monster » Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:14 pm

teslashark wrote:Do you mean the last fight? Destiny had its hand cannons activated, but they exploded pretty soon afterwards when they came into contact with the blade. I don't know if it is the particles colliding and exploding, or the blade just passed through.
The animation made it look like the explosion only occurred due to pilot error in grabbing the sabers with the hands. It shouldn't have to be like that. The explosion should've occurred naturally due to the clash and the sabers potentially blocking the pathways of the hand weapons, or the hand weapons should've won if it actually fired a more powerful beam, or the sabers should've just cut through the hands.

Unless, the hand weapons actually worked only by grabbing, which would rule it out as a mid-range weapon and explain why the Destiny had to get close to the Strike Freedom to utilize the weapon, allowing the Strike Freedom to kick it away. Although, apparently, there was a scene where it fired a beam.

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Deathzealot
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Re: What is the final word on Cosmic Era beam technology?

Post by Deathzealot » Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:33 pm

Damn! I think your right. I cannot find any good shots for Gundam SEED Saber Duels. There are a few that are just clashes but you cannot really tell if its beam saber clashing or just blocking. The Strike vs Aegis Final Fight comes to mind. Everything else is using the shield or something else to block a beam saber strike. Heh. Never even noticed.

That said apparently the Youtube Gundaminfo channel no longer has the SEED Remaster up. Still has Destiny but no SEED. /grumbles/

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Re: What is the final word on Cosmic Era beam technology?

Post by monster » Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:55 pm

Deathzealot wrote:Damn! I think your right. I cannot find any good shots for Gundam SEED Saber Duels. There are a few that are just clashes but you cannot really tell if its beam saber clashing or just blocking. The Strike vs Aegis Final Fight comes to mind. Everything else is using the shield or something else to block a beam saber strike. Heh. Never even noticed.

That said apparently the Youtube Gundaminfo channel no longer has the SEED Remaster up. Still has Destiny but no SEED. /grumbles/
The Strike vs Aegis fight also shows clashes between saber and shield: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCKOSfE3QCQ (still a favorite fight of mine).

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Re: What is the final word on Cosmic Era beam technology?

Post by Deathzealot » Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:05 pm

I know that is why I mentioned it but there are a few quick shots that just show them clashing but it is too fast to see if they are clashing sabers or just shields.

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Re: What is the final word on Cosmic Era beam technology?

Post by Deathonator » Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:44 pm

Duel and Strike clash sabers in one of the earlier battles in space. And I believe the remaster for Destiny adds a new scene where the Destiny's Anti-Ship Sword clashes with Infinite Justice' Beam Saber.

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Re: What is the final word on Cosmic Era beam technology?

Post by Deathzealot » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:21 am

Hmmmm... any screen shots for those instances. For I thought the same with the Strike vs. Aegis Final Fight but it wasn't. Not to mentioned I thought one of the Trio's Astrays having a short duel with a Strike Dagger during the Battle of Orb. But the Astray was using its shield to block instead of its saber.

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Re: What is the final word on Cosmic Era beam technology?

Post by MythSearcher » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:24 am

The hand cannon of Destiny, if I recall right, is also found in Astray series, where it was originally the beam outlet for its beam sabre. It can even be used like shinning/god finger as in G Gundam, and can maintain its ball beam form for a period. So there must be some kind of force field holding the beam in place, and the fields of two different sabres should create a magnificent beam show when clashing together.

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Re: What is the final word on Cosmic Era beam technology?

Post by domino » Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:46 pm

Deathzealot wrote:Hmmmm... any screen shots for those instances. For I thought the same with the Strike vs. Aegis Final Fight but it wasn't. Not to mentioned I thought one of the Trio's Astrays having a short duel with a Strike Dagger during the Battle of Orb. But the Astray was using its shield to block instead of its saber.
I found some interesting shots in the Destiny vs Infinite Justice from Destiny Remaster. Notice that Infinite Justice has somehow stopped Shinn's ASSword attack without using the shield but when Shinn presses the attack (with SEED mode on), Athrun has somehow shifted to blocking with the shield (with beam shield activated)

I'm not sure if having Athrun block without using IJ's shield (did he use the saber?) is a mistake which they later realized and only changed for the pressing of the attack - or if this is proof that beam sabers can indeed be blocked

Screenshots:
IJ blocking Destiny's ASSword without using its shield: http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j55/s ... 2%20AM.png

IJ switches to blocking with its shield: http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j55/s ... 4%20AM.png

Destiny forces IJ back with ASSword being blocked by shield: http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j55/s ... 4%20AM.png

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Re: What is the final word on Cosmic Era beam technology?

Post by monster » Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:14 pm

It would seem that the Infinite Justice is blocking with the right side with the sabers in front. So it's either an error or it suggests that there is a limit to how much the saber can withstand such a clash, and once the Destiny pushes forward, the Infinite Justice switches to the shield for better defense.

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Re: What is the final word on Cosmic Era beam technology?

Post by teslashark » Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:50 pm

Deathzealot wrote:I know that is why I mentioned it but there are a few quick shots that just show them clashing but it is too fast to see if they are clashing sabers or just shields.
Most of the time it is done with shields, maybe it's possible to put Laminated Armor/Anti-Beam Coating on shields?
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Re: What is the final word on Cosmic Era beam technology?

Post by Deathzealot » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:30 am

Yes. That becomes standard after Beam Sabers and Beam Rifles start becoming common.

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Re: What is the final word on Cosmic Era beam technology?

Post by domino » Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:32 am

Maybe this is a moot point. Unless beam sabers are using completely different tech from beam shields then of course they can clash/block each other.

Beam shields have also been shown to block even some of the most powerful beam attacks (at least in the hands of the Terminal pilots)

Add to the fact that Kira is shown blocking beam shots with his beam sabers multiple times then I wonder how we ever came upon the thought that beam sabers can't clash

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Re: What is the final word on Cosmic Era beam technology?

Post by domtropen » Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:50 am

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Re: What is the final word on Cosmic Era beam technology?

Post by domtropen » Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:22 am

Deathonator wrote:Duel and Strike clash sabers in one of the earlier battles in space.
In remaster episode 11 around 19:00. Look like in CE both beam saber and shield [earlier] can block beam saber.

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Re: What is the final word on Cosmic Era beam technology?

Post by E08 » Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:54 am

MythSearcher wrote:The hand cannon of Destiny, if I recall right, is also found in Astray series, where it was originally the beam outlet for its beam sabre. It can even be used like shinning/god finger as in G Gundam, and can maintain its ball beam form for a period. So there must be some kind of force field holding the beam in place, and the fields of two different sabres should create a magnificent beam show when clashing together.
What the Astray series have in their hands is not a beam outlet for the beam sabers, but simply an energy outlet to power the handheld weapons. Red Frame's use of this energy outlet as a weapon is a misuse of the equipment by Lowe.
domino wrote: Unless beam sabers are using completely different tech from beam shields then of course they can clash/block each other.
Actually, beam shield is a bit different from beam sabers in that it is descended from Umbrella of Artemis.

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Re: What is the final word on Cosmic Era beam technology?

Post by Crimson-Lightning » Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:50 pm

In regards to beam sabers its been shown though not often that they can come into contact with each other and the little technical information on CE Beam sabers supports the idea that they can. I believe it was stated that the beam is composed of plasma (though I can't source it) but the method for containing the saber was stated by the old Gundam Official website to be a magnetic field generator based off the Blitz's Mirage Colloid system. So going off that its plausible that when two beam sabers clash the magnetic fields either repel one another or attract one another depending on the polarity of the magnetic field.

Strike and Duel locking Sabers, Gundam Seed EP 11

As for the rest of CE beam technology its pretty vague. Going off what we're shown on screen though I don't think that CE beam weapons fire ionized metal. From what we're shown the only thing needed to fire beam weapons in seed is electrical power. Additional ammunition or materials for standard beam weapons aren't mentioned or shown which leads me to believe that aside from magazine using weapons like the Zaku's beam rifle, that CE beam weapons generate what ever the beam composed of. Though on the other side of the argument I don't believe their much that says standard beam weapons are different from the Ion Cannon aside from not being directly labeled as Ion Weapons. The beam color does seem to be the same and even when the Strike first showcase's the agni Rau only remarks on the impossibility of the Launcher Strike's firepower (Dub Version)

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