question about various mass-produced Astrays

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domtropen
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question about various mass-produced Astrays

Post by domtropen » Tue Feb 17, 2015 9:14 am

Compared to the original Astrays before upgrade, how do M1 Astray, Raysta and Civilian Astray compare with the original Astrays in performance? Is it far behind or do the later ones got benefit from newer tech?
Last edited by domtropen on Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: question about various mass-produced Astrays

Post by azrael » Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:40 pm

The M1 Astray's performance would be based on the design specified by the original Astrays, pre-Heliopolis blowing up. That is, unfortunately, where things diverge. The M1 Astrays use a OS modified by Kira Yamato. That design was based on his experience with Strike Gundam. Red Frame uses a modified OS which never made it to mass production because the colony blew up before the OS could be tested and sent back to Earth. Blue Frame uses an OS not designed for Naturals so we'll leave that out. The M1s benefit from better battery usage, but their performance is no better than the originals without upgrades.
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Re: question about various mass-produced Astrays

Post by E08 » Wed Feb 18, 2015 6:35 am

i think the M1 Astray may have better mobility than the original Astrays, its backpack was said to be based on the Aile Striker and mentioned in the HG manual to grant the suit flight capability for a short time.

As for the Raysta, it is a unique MS in that it is made out of recycled parts of which 40% belongs to M1 Astray. It is stated that Yoon Sefan's custom Raysta uses 60% close to new M1 Astray parts and hence has higher performance than the vanilla Raysta. Based on this, i think the Raysta has lower performance than the M1 Astray and likely the original Astrays.

The Civilian Astray probably has the best battery performance as the technology for the power extender became widespread after the first war.

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Re: question about various mass-produced Astrays

Post by Evex » Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:14 pm

Performance wise the M1 Astray is I believe to be on par with the earth alliance strike daggers, but still poorer performance to Z.A.F.Ts Guiaz models. In a sense the red frame with flight pack might be closer to the actual performance of the mass production M1 Astray. The flight pack the red frame uses is just a modified M1 backpack.

The Civilian Astray DSSD Custom has a high mobility when it comes to space, and The Junk Guild version has a higher versatility rate. One of these being that the JG versions can be customised to look like the MBF-P series. The JG version also is the base unit for the Turn Delta Gundam, Civilian Astray 0 Gundam and the Gundam Astray Violence Geist. The JG Custom is also designed to replaced the Rayasta.

The Rayasta most likely has the poorest performance, as others have said its built from mostly recycled parts, and meant for civilian use. In this regard it is versatile able to mount things using harpoints on its body, but its not designed for actual combat.

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Re: question about various mass-produced Astrays

Post by domtropen » Thu Feb 19, 2015 3:09 pm

Thanks. Is Astray Noir a power-up Civ Astray or a newly built MS?

Also is the later version of Aile Strike pack [like one for Slaughter Dagger] better than Astray's flight pack? And is it flight capable like Astray's flight pack used by Redframe in the short anime?

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Re: question about various mass-produced Astrays

Post by Deathzealot » Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:45 pm

Actually I personally think the M1 Astray is the second best of the three late-war mass production mobile suits performance wise. It was quite superior over the Strike Dagger, but was wasn't as good as the GuAIZ though it was just slightly better then the down-tuned GuAIZ R. It was definitely superior over the older GINN and CGUE. But that is the basic M1 but you also have custom versions like Jean Carry's which was fine-tuned to be better then the basic M1. Then you have the M1A used by the Sahakus which sported a dedicated space combat pack and a beam sniper rifle.

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Re: question about various mass-produced Astrays

Post by E08 » Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:29 pm

domtropen wrote:Thanks. Is Astray Noir a power-up Civ Astray or a newly built MS?

Also is the later version of Aile Strike pack [like one for Slaughter Dagger] better than Astray's flight pack? And is it flight capable like Astray's flight pack used by Redframe in the short anime?
The Astray Noir is a new MS built by Actaeon Industries. It is basically a copy of the original Astray with a Noir Striker.

Although Civ Astray can be converted into the original Astrays or even their upgraded form, those new parts added to the suit are just for show and have not much impact on Civ Astray's performance.

I think one of the Stargazer episodes show the Slaughter Daggers flying alongside Strike Noir using the Aile Striker. So i think they are better than the M1 Astray's flight pack.

It is noted in the Strike Rouge Ootori's MG kit that even though the M1 Astray has good mobility, its firepower and durability are below average when compared to other MS of that period.

Actually, the GuAIZ R is not a downgrade as thought by some fans. Sure, the backpack side boosters have been removed, but additional thrusters were added to the rear skirt amor. It is also debatable if the weapon changes are better or worse. Anyway, the Seed Destiny MS encyclopaedia notes that the GuAIZ R has better combat capabilities than its predecessor. So i would still put it above the M1 Astray.

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Re: question about various mass-produced Astrays

Post by azrael » Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:53 pm

domtropen wrote:Also is the later version of Aile Strike pack [like one for Slaughter Dagger] better than Astray's flight pack? And is it flight capable like Astray's flight pack used by Redframe in the short anime?
Red Frame's flight pack and the M1's flight pack are essentially the same. The Aile Strike packs post-Bloody Valentine War are all flight capable. Is it better than the Astray flight pack? It's probably comparable to the Astrays' flight pack.
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Re: question about various mass-produced Astrays

Post by Kuruni » Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:43 am

azrael wrote:Red Frame's flight pack and the M1's flight pack are essentially the same.
Not the same, it has big horizonal wings that not present in M1's pack. In Astray R short anime, these wings are add-on and can be ejected. The short anime also show that the whole backpack can be ejected and maneuver on it own, something that may not feature on M1's backpack.
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Re: question about various mass-produced Astrays

Post by Wingnut » Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:09 am

Kuruni wrote:
azrael wrote:Red Frame's flight pack and the M1's flight pack are essentially the same.
Not the same, it has big horizonal wings that not present in M1's pack. In Astray R short anime, these wings are add-on and can be ejected. The short anime also show that the whole backpack can be ejected and maneuver on it own, something that may not feature on M1's backpack.
Pretty sure it doesn't on the M1s considering that we also see 8 taped onto the backpack so it's safe to assume that it is in control of that independent flight gag to decoy the DEEP Arms after it.
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Re: question about various mass-produced Astrays

Post by Dark Duel » Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:41 am

M1's backpack is not a separate pack the way Red Frame's is. It's permanently integrated into the main body. Also, the M1 itself appears incapable of unassisted atmospheric flight - in Seed, they're only ever used in ground combat on Earth, and in GSD the ones in flight are equipped with those big rotors.
Presumably, Red's flight pack is a custom job Lowe put together by using the M1's backpack as a base. It's almost the same, but not quite.
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Re: question about various mass-produced Astrays

Post by Dark Duel » Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:43 am

Accidental double-post. Sorry. Pls delete
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Re: question about various mass-produced Astrays

Post by azrael » Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:43 pm

Kuruni wrote:Not the same, it has big horizonal wings that not present in M1's pack. In Astray R short anime, these wings are add-on and can be ejected. The short anime also show that the whole backpack can be ejected and maneuver on it own, something that may not feature on M1's backpack.
IIRC, the wings are also fuel tanks so if they take out the beam saber sockets on the M1's pack and plug in wings, you would have the same capabilities. Considering the M1's flight pack was to be integrated into the MS as opposed to being an addon like it is for Red Frame, the 2 packs are essentially the same thing.

And the Shrike-addon unit would allow the M1s to hover without needing to expend their flight pack's fuel .
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Re: question about various mass-produced Astrays

Post by domtropen » Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:55 am

Thanks. Can Raysta and Civ Astray use the later model of Aile striker pack or other packs avaliable for Daggers and Zakus?

Also in term of thrust power is Civ Astray's DSSD backpack with electromagnetic propulsion system better than Aile and M1 flight pack? Can it be used for flight or does it work in atmosphere?

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Re: question about various mass-produced Astrays

Post by E08 » Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:05 am

domtropen wrote:Thanks. Can Raysta and Civ Astray use the later model of Aile striker pack or other packs avaliable for Daggers and Zakus?
AFAIK, that is not possible without modifications. Raysta is designed to be able mount to additional equipment on its back, just not the striker or wizard packs if i recall correctly.
domtropen wrote:Also in term of thrust power is Civ Astray's DSSD backpack with electromagnetic propulsion system better than Aile and M1 flight pack? Can it be used for flight or does it work in atmosphere?
Difficult to compare the thrust power, but it is known that the electromagnetic system on the DSSD backpack has low thrust, which seems to be compensated by the conventional thrusters at the side. Not sure if the backpack can be used for flight, it seems to be developed specifically for space use to suit DSSD's needs. I'm not sure if the electromagnetic system can work on earth, even if it did, its low thrust meant its contribution to the suit's overall thrust power is unlikely to be significant.

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Re: question about various mass-produced Astrays

Post by Deathzealot » Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:19 am

From I understand with the DSSD Astray's backpack is somewhat based on the Lightwave Pulse Thrusters used on the GINN HM Type and later on the METEOR Systems along with the Stargazer's Voiture Lumiere. Therefore it sports high maneuverability in space due to this. Of course the Lightwave thrusters is only mentioned a couple of different times therefore this maybe false.

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Re: question about various mass-produced Astrays

Post by E08 » Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:31 am

I haven't seen any mention of Civ Astray DSSD's backpack or Stargazer's VL linked to lightwave pulse thrusters. In fact, i'm not sure which Seed series MS have lightwave pulse thrusters. I know the mahq's profile for Regenerate Gundam says that it has such a thruster, but that is a mistake. What Regenerate has is the Light Craft propulsion system.

For GINN HM type, the HG manual calls the suit's new engine as MMI-M729 engine, and a chinese translation i have seen (not sure how accurate the translation is...) says this engine is a tried and tested ship engine. And yes, this engine is the prototype of METEOR's engine.

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Re: question about various mass-produced Astrays

Post by Deathzealot » Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:16 am

Your right. It appears that Lightwave Pulse Thrusters are no longer official for both the METEOR and the GINN HM are now listed as unknown for their propulsion when I seem to remember them being mentioning that they were Lightwave Pulse Thrusters before or something like that. The GINN HM had something like electromagentic something or another I forget but since it had similar GN Drive looking thrusters to that of the METEOR it was assumed to be Lightwave based as well and which lead to specalation about the DSSD Astray having its thrusters based somewhat on lightwave propulsion as well.

The Regenerate on the other hand still looks like it uses Lightwave Pulse Thruster as listed in the MAHQ profile in the tech and historial notes but that is only one small line. However those thrusters seem similar to that of the system on the Stargazer where it can catch the beam of a propulsion laser/device like GENESIS Alpha to propel itself when needed.

/sigh\ The Regenerate profile is now the only place where lightwave pulse thrusters are mentioned. No where else has it.

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