Perfect Zeong's legs

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Calubin_175
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Perfect Zeong's legs

Post by Calubin_175 » Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:03 pm

I was wondering whether they serve any purpose. In space they seem to be dead weight but enables easy landing in gravity areas. I am not sure whether it can operate under atmospheric conditions.

The whole idea of leg-less MS in space seems to be the most practical out of all sci-fi humanoid mechs.

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halo1000
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Re: Perfect Zeong's legs

Post by halo1000 » Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:17 pm

I'd imagine they add a few thrusters, verniers, etc to improve it's ambac ability; although I don't suppose the maneuvering ability would be drastically different to the standard Zeong due to the increase in mass. The only practical use I've seen for the legs in space was the Perfect Victory ending in Gihrens Greed where it literally crushes the Gundam under its feet.

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Re: Perfect Zeong's legs

Post by Raikoh » Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:29 pm

I can think of a couple reasons for the legs, though none of them are exactly the best explanations.

The first is for a greater field of vision granted by a taller height. From my experience, it looks like the monoeye system isn't as good a camera as a Gundam-type's and so that might be something to make up for that difference.
The second is for the possibility of kicking, jumping, landing, etc. Legs are just useful for mobility (under gravity).

Though I think the real reason for the legs is the psychological aspect. It was said in Crossbone Gundam: Skull Heart that the Zeong was initially going to be a normal size Mobile Suit, but because of the B Gundam's presence in the Battle of Solomon, many thought the Gundam was massive and that they would need a giant Mobile Suit to match it.
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Re: Perfect Zeong's legs

Post by Gelgoog Jager » Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:02 am

One of the most common errors regarding the Perfect Zeon stats is that it is considered to have the same total thrust as the incomplete Zeong.

The Master Grade kit clearly shows that much like the Dom and Gelgoog, the Zeong also has 6 calf thrusters, which are not included in any way in the imperfect model. I don't know if those can compensate for the extra mass, but they at least show that the original design for the Zeong might not necessarily have a lower maximum thruster acceleration than the unit used by Char:

http://dalong.net/review/mg/m71/m71_i.htm

On a side note, I like considering the possibility of the wing thrusters from the MSN-02R being equipped on a Perfect Zeong, hopefully resulting in a major improvement of atmospheric flight capabilities:

http://static4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2 ... g-hmt1.jpg

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battletech
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Re: Perfect Zeong's legs

Post by battletech » Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:24 am

There's something called the AMBAC system as well. http://www.mechatalk.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7568
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Re: Perfect Zeong's legs

Post by latenlazy » Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:42 am

More fuel.

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Re: Perfect Zeong's legs

Post by Gelgoog Jager » Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:27 am

By the way, while it seems to be the correct way to refer to it by now, shouldn't the Perfect Zeong simply be called "Zeong", while Char's incomplete unit should be called differently, indicating that the unit does not match the original/intended specs?

I think that the legless Zeon should rather be called incomplete/imperfect/provisional Zeong, or Zeong Char Custom, but definitely not simply Zeong. I'm quite certain that I have run into people that believe that the legless version is how the Zeong was originally designed as.

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Re: Perfect Zeong's legs

Post by HalfDemonInuyasha » Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:00 am

Yeah, I always just called them both Zeong. Adding "Perfect" makes me think more of the Psyco Gundam Mark II or something, lol.
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Re: Perfect Zeong's legs

Post by Evex » Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:52 am

In Char's Deleted Affair Volume 8. The chief engineer at Ambrosia, who was one of the mechanics on A Boa Qu. States that the legs weren't an accessory like they had thought. With the legs the Zeong's balance and the suits mobility was increased. The mobility most likely coming from the AMBAC system. There were also apparently three Zeong's at A Boa Qu. The one char uses in Char's Deleted Affair is built using parts from unit no.3 that were recovered in the federations confusion at A Boa Qu.

Granted the Zeong is to big even in its completed form to be stored in a musai, instead having being towed similar to how the Psycho Gundam, and Quin Mantha was. While piloting the "Perfect" Zeon char does note that the mobility of the unit has been improved.

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Re: Perfect Zeong's legs

Post by HalfDemonInuyasha » Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:01 am

Evex wrote:In Char's Deleted Affair Volume 8. The chief engineer at Ambrosia, who was one of the mechanics on A Boa Qu. States that the legs weren't an accessory like they had thought. With the legs the Zeong's balance and the suits mobility was increased. The mobility most likely coming from the AMBAC system. There were also apparently three Zeong's at A Boa Qu. The one char uses in Char's Deleted Affair is built using parts from unit no.3 that were recovered in the federations confusion at A Boa Qu.

Granted the Zeong is to big even in its completed form to be stored in a musai, instead having being towed similar to how the Psycho Gundam, and Quin Mantha was. While piloting the "Perfect" Zeon char does note that the mobility of the unit has been improved.
And it's stuff like this that, official or not, makes me (and many others, I'm sure) think of "what-ifs" to myself, like what if the Zeong was completed and had its legs? Would it have made much difference in his battle against Amuro in the RX-78-2? Or what the Gundam Alex wasn't knocked out and made it to the White Base in time? Would the battle have gone differently against the incomplete Zeong? And then what if the Zeong was completed AND Amuro had the Alex? lol
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Re: Perfect Zeong's legs

Post by AmuroNT1 » Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:19 pm

Gelgoog Jager wrote:By the way, while it seems to be the correct way to refer to it by now, shouldn't the Perfect Zeong simply be called "Zeong", while Char's incomplete unit should be called differently, indicating that the unit does not match the original/intended specs?
All I can add is, a few sources like Extreme Vs. actually refer to the Perfect Zeong instead as "Kanzentai", or "Completed Form", which is a more accurate descriptor than "Perfect" IMO.
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Re: Perfect Zeong's legs

Post by JEFFPIATT » Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:11 pm

I always thought the "perfect" was to match it up with the perfect gundam

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Re: Perfect Zeong's legs

Post by Kuruni » Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:11 pm

It's otherway around. The Perfect Gundam got its name since Shiro made it to counter Perfect Zeong.
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Re: Perfect Zeong's legs

Post by Tangerine » Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:43 am

It still works tho, Perfect Zeong can also means the other Zeong isn't as perfect or still incomplete. Why bother renaming. Meanwhile, I do have some questions. Do the big leg part also add something to the unit's weaponry, survivability or increase firepower? If not, why not adding detachable foot funnel? Isn't crazy engineering is always the Zeon's strong side? :lol:

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Re: Perfect Zeong's legs

Post by HalfDemonInuyasha » Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:07 am

Tangerine wrote:It still works tho, Perfect Zeong can also means the other Zeong isn't as perfect or still incomplete. Why bother renaming. Meanwhile, I do have some questions. Do the big leg part also add something to the unit's weaponry, survivability or increase firepower? If not, why not adding detachable foot funnel? Isn't crazy engineering is always the Zeon's strong side? :lol:
Well, the reason some think the "Perfect" isn't necessary is because of the fact that it's not like it's any sort of actual improved version of the design or anything. It's just the actual finished product, but simply didn't get finished due to it being rushed out into combat. Maybe from a combat perspective, it was "complete" (as it would be fighting in space, so it could afford to fight well enough without the legs attached, making it more like half MS and half MA), but from a design standpoint, it wasn't.

It would be like if the Mudrock Gundam, after it got all its equipment fitted on (its first sortie was in an incomplete state too), was renamed "Mudrock Gundam Kai" or something, implying that it's an improvement on the original model, which it wouldn't be.

As for the legs themselves, as mentioned in the thread already, the only thing they would really be adding is increased AMBAC maneuverability, thruster power, and such. I'm sure if Zeon had the time and resources, they could probably turn the legs into wire-guided beam weapon-equipped remote weapons like the arms.
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Re: Perfect Zeong's legs

Post by Gelgoog Jager » Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:56 am

HalfDemonInuyasha wrote:It would be like if the Mudrock Gundam, after it got all its equipment fitted on (its first sortie was in an incomplete state too), was renamed "Mudrock Gundam Kai" or something, implying that it's an improvement on the original model, which it wouldn't be.
Exactly my point! The Zeong with legs is how the MSN-02 was designed as, and Char's unit was just hastily assembled in a form that allowed the unit to be fielded immediately. If you look closely, the legless Zeon is also missing some armor sections between the shoulders and hands, which are included as optional parts for the MG Perfect Zeong. No matter how you look at it, Char's unit should have a name that reflected its provisional state.
HalfDemonInuyasha wrote:As for the legs themselves, as mentioned in the thread already, the only thing they would really be adding is increased AMBAC maneuverability, thruster power, and such. I'm sure if Zeon had the time and resources, they could probably turn the legs into wire-guided beam weapon-equipped remote weapons like the arms.
Well, both the Zeonography figure and MG kit of the Perfect Zeong include a large physical blade, which I assume might not be so easy to wield without AMBAC. AS for actual weapons mounted on the legs, IIRC no MS with that type of leg, such as the Dom and Gelgoog, have been depicted with weapons on their legs.

By the way, one thign I noticed is that both the mouth mega particle gun and the ones on the torso seem to be of the same type that can be fired either as a single focused beam or as a scattering beam. Does anyone remember if Char's unit was ever shown using these weapons in the later way? If not, could we also attribute a lack of such function to another result of hastily assembling the unit?

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Re: Perfect Zeong's legs

Post by HalfDemonInuyasha » Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:05 am

Gelgoog Jager wrote:By the way, one thign I noticed is that both the mouth mega particle gun and the ones on the torso seem to be of the same type that can be fired either as a single focused beam or as a scattering beam. Does anyone remember if Char's unit was ever shown using these weapons in the later way? If not, could we also attribute a lack of such function to another result of hastily assembling the unit?
As far as I can recall, in animation, the Zeong only fired those beams like normal mega particle guns (reminds me of how the Sazabi's beam shotrifle never actually fired like a shotgun in CCA like it's said to be able to do), and it was only in games that it seemed to fire them in a scattering beam gun fashion. I think Federation vs. Zeon did it (I know the Gogg did it at least), and Dynasty Warriors Gundam 2 and 3.
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Re: Perfect Zeong's legs

Post by halo1000 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:55 am

HalfDemonInuyasha wrote: As for the legs themselves, as mentioned in the thread already, the only thing they would really be adding is increased AMBAC maneuverability, thruster power, and such. I'm sure if Zeon had the time and resources, they could probably turn the legs into wire-guided beam weapon-equipped remote weapons like the arms.
IIRC, that ability was gained by the Great Zeong in the G Generation games; it could separate into seven sections to perform an all range attack in a similar fashion to the Turn X Gundam.

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Re: Perfect Zeong's legs

Post by AmuroNT1 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:08 pm

halo1000 wrote:IIRC, that ability was gained by the Great Zeong in the G Generation games; it could separate into seven sections to perform an all range attack in a similar fashion to the Turn X Gundam.
Yeah, the Great Zeong was supposedly designed per Tomino's original concept for the Zeong, where all the parts of its body functioned as attack drones, as with the Turn X's Bloody Siege. Amusingly, the different parts of its body are modeled off of various Zeon mobile armors: the chest resembles the Apsaras III, the waist resembles the Big Zam, and the legs are vaguely Bigro-ish.
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Re: Perfect Zeong's legs

Post by Blazer-X » Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:20 am

And slightly off-series (but since we're already in non-canon MSV category with Great Zeong), Build Fighters recently showed another version of how Zeong could have been "perfected" with "Claw Legs" that feature their own beam cannons. While it probably doesn't improve the AMBAC like Perfect Zeong, it does add a very practical use to the unit and gives it additional offense/defense in close up combat.

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