The Macross Valkyrie Thread

[False Prophet]

Nope. Basara's a very strong anima spiritia singer and everyone still thinks he's a total wanker.

No, I mean if a terrible singer perform, would his/her singing becomes better to those species sensitive to spiritia/fold waves?

Also, when the Zentrandi first encountered humans, could they distinguish between good and bad music? They didn't even have art, right?

Well, for the most part, Macross builds its narratives around characters who either aspire to become professional singers or were already professional singers. Activating fold receptors or using anima spiritia abilities seems to need particular mental/emotional states that people inclined towards performance professions naturally possess. We saw that Mylene had difficulty activating her sound booster when she was feeling insecure or uncertain of herself, and that Freyja's fold receptors stopped working when she was depressed and feeling insecure.

So, naturally, the singers we see saving the galaxy are usually the chart-toppers or up-and-coming chart toppers.

That does reminds me of the two girl members who left Walkure before Mikumo joins. I think making a show about failed artists and their pursuits could be a fun idea.

Well, if you want a bad parody of Macross that features tone-deaf screeching masquerading as singing... try the Robotech franchise.

Robotech music is that bad?

[Seto Kaiba]

No, I mean if a terrible singer perform, would his/her singing becomes better to those species sensitive to spiritia/fold waves?

Nope. The fold wave component is largely separate from the fold wave component. If he sounds like a tone-deaf budgie being buggered with a barbed-wire buttplug that is what they're gonna hear.

Also, when the Zentrandi first encountered humans, could they distinguish between good and bad music? They didn't even have art, right?

I doubt they could critique style, but since things like pitch, tone, and harmony are a fundamental part of human(oid) auditory processing they'd probably notice if someone were singing off-key.

That does reminds me of the two girl members who left Walkure before Mikumo joins. I think making a show about failed artists and their pursuits could be a fun idea.

It'd make it kinda hard to sell music... soundtrack CDs are a big part of Macross's profit picture.

I suppose Macross Delta may already kind of be that though, since three of Walkure's five members were failures in their respective fields already. Kaname Buccaneer bombed as a solo idol and her career was only saved because of her fold receptor factor that got her into Walkure as its leader. Makina Nakajima more or less bombed as a mechanic, and got a token spot on the mechanic team for the Aether by joining Walkure using her high fold receptor factor. Reina Prowler was a failed hacker who was forced to join Xaos and Walkure as an alternative to a long jail sentence for all of the crimes she'd committed.

I suppose we did also have that in Macross Plus via Myung Fang Lone, who was a failed solo idol who became a manager and puppeteer for Sharon Apple.

Robotech music is that bad?

Mostly, yeah.

Michael Bradley, the guy who they hired to do the singing for their bastarized dub of Genesis Climber MOSPEADA, was actually pretty decent. He was a member of the band Paul Revere & the Raiders in the 80's, well after the group's popularity had peaked and then collapsed. I know his manager Vivian, and she's a really great person. Neither he nor she are on particularly good terms with HG anymore over HG's failure to pay music royalties to him for his songwriting.

The gal committing the musical atrocities was voice actress Rebecca Forstadt, who was the voice actress playing Lynn Minmay in Harmony Gold's bastardized dub of Super Dimension Fortress Macross. She's best known as the dub voice actress for Mihoshi and Mitoto Kuramitsu in Tenchi Muyo!, and her singing voice can charitably be described as being like sitting in a room full of agitated cockatiels with irritable bowel disorders. She is, at least, aware that she's an appallingly bad singer and has confessed that to record those terrible songs in the Robotech dub she had to get completely sloshed at the bar across the street from the studio. They are memetically bad even among Robotech's fandom, made worse by the fact that they only wrote like three songs for her so those bad songs are repeated FREQUENTLY.

[False Prophet]

Mostly, yeah.

Michael Bradley, the guy who they hired to do the singing for their bastarized dub of Genesis Climber MOSPEADA, was actually pretty decent. He was a member of the band Paul Revere & the Raiders in the 80's, well after the group's popularity had peaked and then collapsed. I know his manager Vivian, and she's a really great person. Neither he nor she are on particularly good terms with HG anymore over HG's failure to pay music royalties to him for his songwriting.

The gal committing the musical atrocities was voice actress Rebecca Forstadt, who was the voice actress playing Lynn Minmay in Harmony Gold's bastardized dub of Super Dimension Fortress Macross. She's best known as the dub voice actress for Mihoshi and Mitoto Kuramitsu in Tenchi Muyo!, and her singing voice can charitably be described as being like sitting in a room full of agitated cockatiels with irritable bowel disorders. She is, at least, aware that she's an appallingly bad singer and has confessed that to record those terrible songs in the Robotech dub she had to get completely sloshed at the bar across the street from the studio. They are memetically bad even among Robotech's fandom, made worse by the fact that they only wrote like three songs for her so those bad songs are repeated FREQUENTLY.

That reminds me, didn't they used to dub anime songs into English, and they were almost always terrible?

Here are a few examples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAilvFc ... zv&index=1

[Seto Kaiba]

That reminds me, didn't they used to dub anime songs into English, and they were almost always terrible?

It was one of those "depending on the distributor" kind of things.

Re-recording songs like that is pretty expensive in terms of the legal hoops that need to be jumped through, studio time to record the new vocal tracks for the song, and the extra work it generates for the sound engineer doing the mixing... plus you have to find a voice actor who can actually sing or hire a vocalist just for the song, which is also quite expensive.

Those old rewrite-type dub jobs often substituted original orchestral music or would remix in non-vocal BGM from existing tracks to replace insert songs or openings with lyrics. Songs were usually only re-recorded when it wasn't avoidable to do so, like the all-important songs in Macross's original series or if the project was particularly well-funded. For instance, Harmony Gold originally commissioned an original song for the opening of their short-lived straight dub of Macross, but replaced it with an orchestral piece when they made Robotech.

There was this short-lived period in the 90's where anime that was headed to cable TV would sometimes find itself getting accurate dubs but rerecorded songs, but that quickly fell out of favor too because it was more expensive to rerecord those songs than it was to just subtitle them. They were usually pretty awful. The only one that I recall having actually been halfway listenable was the one that was done for Tenchi Universe.

[yazi88]

There was a English dub opening for Tenchi Muyo GXP as well... its also had its own subtitles that was a different option than the subtitles for JP voice option...

[Seto Kaiba]

There was a English dub opening for Tenchi Muyo GXP as well... its also had its own subtitles that was a different option than the subtitles for JP voice option...

I'm familiar with it... it was a VERY awkward performance. A lot more in line with the almost embarrassingly bad rerecorded songs done for the first two OVAs. Universe's was the only one I've heard that didn't sound weird beyond listenability.

[False Prophet]

It was one of those "depending on the distributor" kind of things.

Re-recording songs like that is pretty expensive in terms of the legal hoops that need to be jumped through, studio time to record the new vocal tracks for the song, and the extra work it generates for the sound engineer doing the mixing... plus you have to find a voice actor who can actually sing or hire a vocalist just for the song, which is also quite expensive.

Those old rewrite-type dub jobs often substituted original orchestral music or would remix in non-vocal BGM from existing tracks to replace insert songs or openings with lyrics. Songs were usually only re-recorded when it wasn't avoidable to do so, like the all-important songs in Macross's original series or if the project was particularly well-funded. For instance, Harmony Gold originally commissioned an original song for the opening of their short-lived straight dub of Macross, but replaced it with an orchestral piece when they made Robotech.

There was this short-lived period in the 90's where anime that was headed to cable TV would sometimes find itself getting accurate dubs but rerecorded songs, but that quickly fell out of favor too because it was more expensive to rerecord those songs than it was to just subtitle them. They were usually pretty awful. The only one that I recall having actually been halfway listenable was the one that was done for Tenchi Universe.

Say, for my own writing, can you tell me more about anime music dubbing back then? Was there any notable voice actor/singer or producer specialized in these?

[Dark Duel]

The gal committing the musical atrocities was voice actress Rebecca Forstadt, who was the voice actress playing Lynn Minmay in Harmony Gold's bastardized dub of Super Dimension Fortress Macross. She's best known as the dub voice actress for Mihoshi and Mitoto Kuramitsu in Tenchi Muyo!, and her singing voice can charitably be described as being like sitting in a room full of agitated cockatiels with irritable bowel disorders.

Is that the same Rebecca Forstadt who delivers a performance so awful as Nunally Lamperouge in the Code Geass dub that hearing it makes me want to carve out my eardrums with a wooden spoon?
Not surprised at that myself

[Seto Kaiba]

Is that the same Rebecca Forstadt who delivers a performance so awful as Nunally Lamperouge in the Code Geass dub that hearing it makes me want to carve out my eardrums with a wooden spoon?
Not surprised at that myself

Yes, it's the same one... she's sometimes alternatively credited under the name "Reba West" for her voice work, or "Rebecca Olkowski" when she works as an ADR script writer.

In my opinion, she's a pretty poor voice actress as she really only seems to be capable of the one ditzy voice... and uses that for every character she's cast as. It's a good fit for ditzy characters she's played like Mihoshi Kuramitsu in the Tenchi franchise or Batou's Tachikoma in Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex, but it's a poor fit for characters who are supposed to have a modicum of intelligence like Nunnally vi Britannia (Code Geass) or Erma (Tenchi Muyo! GXP).

Her performance as Minmei in Robotech, however, reached the level of memetic awfulness ages ago.

Say, for my own writing, can you tell me more about anime music dubbing back then? Was there any notable voice actor/singer or producer specialized in these?

Not really... it was kind of a fly-by-night affair, like most parts of anime dubbing back then.

The only artist I personally know who was involved in it was the aforementioned Mr. Michael Bradley, formerly of the band Paul Revere & The Raiders.

[False Prophet]

Say, let's just say that someone was able to accomplish what Grace and Roid tried to do, and became the focal point of the galactic consciousness network. What if that person was killed after that? How would humans, Zentrandi, and other aliens in that network be affected?

Re-watching the Delta movie suddenly gives me a strange idea about making Roid a downright psychopath and seek to connect the mind of everyone so that he could inflict on other people the pain that Windermerians suffered.

[Seto Kaiba]

Say, let's just say that someone was able to accomplish what Grace and Roid tried to do, and became the focal point of the galactic consciousness network. What if that person was killed after that? How would humans, Zentrandi, and other aliens in that network be affected?

Well, if it'd been accomplished the way Grace O'Connor and the Galaxy executives intended (via cybernetics) then it would have been a simple matter of the next highest level of network nodes taking control of the network and then choosing a replacement. It wouldn't disrupt the network significantly.

The ancient Protoculture's delta wave system is harder to say, since that system was using fold technology to grant people fold wave telepathy (involuntarily) and the New UN Government was pretty sure that actually activating its network would quickly kill much of the galactic population by overloading their brains. Given how fast using it cut Roid's lifespan by burning up his runes, I suspect that that network doesn't need a person to act as a central "node" overseeing it. Roid would likely have died within an hour from accelerated old age. It might have just continued running as usual... assuming it didn't collapse when people started dying from the strain it put on their minds.

Re-watching the Delta movie suddenly gives me a strange idea about making Roid a downright psychopath and seek to connect the mind of everyone so that he could inflict on other people the pain that Windermerians suffered.

... you lost me at "rewatching". That movie was so painfully mediocre that I have zero desire to ever watch it again.

While there's certainly no denying that Chancellor Roid Brehm was definitely unbalanced, his stated motivation for using the delta wave system was more on the order of wanting to liberate his own people from the pain of having such short lifespans.

[False Prophet]

Well, if it'd been accomplished the way Grace O'Connor and the Galaxy executives intended (via cybernetics) then it would have been a simple matter of the next highest level of network nodes taking control of the network and then choosing a replacement. It wouldn't disrupt the network significantly.

The ancient Protoculture's delta wave system is harder to say, since that system was using fold technology to grant people fold wave telepathy (involuntarily) and the New UN Government was pretty sure that actually activating its network would quickly kill much of the galactic population by overloading their brains. Given how fast using it cut Roid's lifespan by burning up his runes, I suspect that that network doesn't need a person to act as a central "node" overseeing it. Roid would likely have died within an hour from accelerated old age. It might have just continued running as usual... assuming it didn't collapse when people started dying from the strain it put on their minds.

... you lost me at "rewatching". That movie was so painfully mediocre that I have zero desire to ever watch it again.

While there's certainly no denying that Chancellor Roid Brehm was definitely unbalanced, his stated motivation for using the delta wave system was more on the order of wanting to liberate his own people from the pain of having such short lifespans.

Well, the worst thing about the Delta movie to me was how the dogfighting and concert looked even less impressive than the TV show, and it reused footage from the show. The plot stayed true to Delta's and therefore was extremely boring--that was why the idea of a nihilistic Roid came up to me.

Is it too late to hope for the second movie to salvage something?

[Seto Kaiba]

Well, the worst thing about the Delta movie to me was how the dogfighting and concert looked even less impressive than the TV show, and it reused footage from the show. The plot stayed true to Delta's and therefore was extremely boring--that was why the idea of a nihilistic Roid came up to me.

Macross: Do You Remember Love? was the only Macross movie that didn't reuse footage from its series... so that wasn't really an issue to me. The clumsy CG is even excusable. The problem is that the story was the same barely-there mess that it was in the TV series. It's a Macross story in name only. It's really just a commercial for Walkure that's been thinly and halfheartedly disguised as a Macross story. There was no need to do a film because the series was a train wreck and Walkure didn't bloody need the help anyway.

Really, I consider the VF-31's ugly-as-f*ck Armored Pack proof positive that even Kawamori wasn't feeling it... and phoned it in.

The one good thing to come out of Delta's story was that Macross fans are suddenly a lot kinder to the Macross II OVA... which had an actual story.

Is it too late to hope for the second movie to salvage something?

Probably. Macross Delta is less about the story than it is about promoting Walkure.

[False Prophet]

Really, I consider the VF-31's ugly-as-f*ck Armored Pack proof positive that even Kawamori wasn't feeling it... and phoned it in.

Does Kawamori do anything for anime this year? I know he has been working on Daemon x Machina.

Also, I'm not that familiar with Armored Core, but would you pitch an AC against the Valkyries?

[Seto Kaiba]

Does Kawamori do anything for anime this year? I know he has been working on Daemon x Machina.

Not that I've heard about... last anyone heard, he was working on Macross Delta's second movie.

Also, I'm not that familiar with Armored Core, but would you pitch an AC against the Valkyries?

I've never played an Armored Core game, so I have no idea.

[False Prophet]

I have just read this interesting article (https://www.decultureshock.com/the-vf-4 ... e-sdf-018/) about the VF-4. But in-universe, what does the designation SDF-018 mean?

[Seto Kaiba]

I have just read this interesting article (https://www.decultureshock.com/the-vf-4 ... e-sdf-018/) about the VF-4. But in-universe, what does the designation SDF-018 mean?

Ah, yes... the big to-do over the markings on the HiMetal VF-4A-0.

"SDF-018" is hull identification number, the unique identification code of a particular warship. It's made up of two parts: a hull classification symbol ("SDF") that identifies what the type/role of the ship is and a hull number which indicates its place in the production order of ships of that type.

So, for instance, the recently decommissioned USS Enterprise's hull identification number CVN-65... identifying it as a nuclear-powered carrier - CVN = Carrier Vessel (Nuclear) - and the 65th hull of that type to be planned. This separates it from previous vessels named USS Enterprise, like the World War II-era CV-6 and the currently-under-construction Gerald R. Ford-class USS Enterprise (CVN-80) that will replace it. There are subtypes of hull classification symbol, so different variations of the same basic role will be counted as part of the same hull number series... such as CV, CVA, CVE, and CVN all being counted as part of the same sequence. Multiple classes of ship also share the same hull symbol and number sequence if one replaces another or two are in production concurrently.

Macross's hull identification number system is generally modeled on the United States Navy's system, with a few minor aberrations. We've seen that carriers are designated CV or variants on it (CVS, CVR, at one point SCV), frigates use FF and variants of it (FFR, FFM), and so on.



When a ship's hull identification number is applied to an aircraft, that identifies what ship the aircraft is stationed on.

Why the Hikaru Ichijyo VF-4A-0 Lightning III HiMetal R toy having "SDF-018" stenciled on it is so confusing is that he's canonically stationed aboard the SDF-002 Megaroad-01.

We don't know what exactly Kawamori's original plan was when he drew that art for that model kit with SDF-018 on it. More recently, Macross Frontier-era sources confirmed that the hull classification symbol "SDF" was used by the Megaroad-class large-scale long-distance emigrant ships starting from SDF-002 Megaroad-01. So a current understanding of the meaning of SDF-018 would be that the fighter was assigned to Megaroad-17, the 18th ship from the Super Dimension Fortress type.

Older lore - and I'm talking pre-DYRL here - treated the SDF hull classification symbol as that of a flagship-level space battleship and even indicated that Vrlitwhai Kridanik's ship was designated SDF-3 when his forces were absorbed by the UN Spacy after the First Space War. (This was back before Flash Back 2012 established that the SDF-2 had been planned as a second Macross-class ship but completed as a different class of ship intended purely for transporting emigrant populations.)

[Seto Kaiba]

Since the mention of the Enterprise is likely to bring up thoughts of Star Trek, I hasten to add that the system in Star Trek was envisioned to work a little differently...

What Gene Roddenberry conceived there was that the four digit number would indicate both class and hull number, the Constitution-class USS Enterprise was envisioned as being the 1st ship of the 17th starship design... so 1701. Because the Federation Starfleet was conceived of as being non-military in nature despite being the Federation's de facto military, they do not have hull classification symbols.

This original designer's intent got lost in the shuffle of production fairly swiftly, so the numbers became entirely arbitrary later on.

[False Prophet]

Say, were the VF-19 Custom built from VF-19A or VF-19S parts? And could anyone remodel a YF-19 straight into the VF-19 Custom?

[Seto Kaiba]

Say, were the VF-19 Custom built from VF-19A or VF-19S parts? And could anyone remodel a YF-19 straight into the VF-19 Custom?

Macross Chronicle indicates that Basara Nekki's VF-19 Custom started out as a trial production VF-19F Excalibur that was built in the 37th Long-Distance Emigrant Fleet, presumably by the Three Star Heavy Industries factory ship the fleet had. The winglets were remodeled into a full forward-swept wing, the monitor turret was exchanged for a custom one, the cockpit was remodeled, the shoulder joint was remodeled to include the speaker systems, and its engines got exchanged for a more powerful set.

Master File offers an alternate explanation that Basara's VF-19 Custom started out as a VF-19E Excalibur, a type unique to Master File that depicts the VF-19E as the first 2nd Mass Production type VF-19 instead of the the 1st Mass Production type the VF-19E was officially seen as in Macross 30.

As restricted as manufacture of the VF-19 and VF-22 are, you wouldn't see just anybody in possession of one. Those fighters are expensive even by the standards of 4th Generation VFs, so cost and government export restrictions both combine to make the VF-19 difficult to obtain at all. On top of that, the VF-19's difficult handling made it a fighter the New UN Forces opted to pass on because only highly skilled and experienced pilots could safely handle it, so there's three big barriers to entry right there. Theoretically, another emigrant government could go and build another VF-19 Custom if they wanted, but there wouldn't be a lot of call for it since the VF-19 Custom takes the already difficult and peaky handling of the VF-19 and makes it WORSE by significantly uprating the engines. Only a brilliant pilot would be able to safely operate it.

To date, we've seen exactly two VF-19 Customs. The original, Basara's "Fire Valkyrie", and a replica of it owned by Dr. Elma Hoyly c.2062 that she affectionately calls the Wind Valkyrie in its one and only appearance in the Macross Delta Gaiden: Macross E manga.