Irish Class Battleship: New Info

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Irish Class Battleship: New Info

Post by Deathzealot » Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:55 pm

Alright everyone I figured I post this little topic after my recent dive back into Zeta Gundam. I have noticed that there was some new info and such about the Irish Class Battleship, one of my favorite Gundam ships. The following is my general thoughts and observations on this new information about this wonderful ship.

First up the Class is no longer four to five ships that it has been since the introduction of the Original Zeta Series. It has recently been expanded to like around twelve ships with a couple maybe produced after the end of the Gryps War. This is thanks to a couple new Mangas like École de Ciel, Gundam F90, and the new Advance of Zeta Photo Novel/Manga not mention being dropped in Gundam Unicorn the first time it has been animated since Zeta if I remember right. This makes the Irish Class no longer a Limited Produced Ship but maybe even a mass-produced ships all out replacing the Alexandria and the Magellan Kai in the Federation Space Forces.

However the majority of the newly introduced ships are from the Mangas that are based during the Gryps War Ecole and Traitor to Destiny. With the Zwickbau introduced as the mothership for the hero of Ecole Asuna Elmarit and the Areion as the new ship of Cristian Kirk after losing the Delphi. (Which I am Guessing about by the way with what info I have found) It could be argued that these two ships are the other two AEUG Irish Class Battleships mentioned in the background info with the Irish and Radish being the other two ships of the class with maybe one other ship. The question is where are these other known ships of the class, like the Oasis and Dervish? I know the Arlberg, Meteran, and Saint Ives are from the F90 Manga therefore produced after the end of the Gryps War but the others... Maybe in other new Mangas like Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam Define, Mobile Suit Gundam Climax U.C.: The Bonds of the Bloodline, and Gundam Legacy.

Okay moving on, another new bit of info is the Close-In Weapon System on the Areion as shown in this image which does look as if it was a model made by someone. Even then it had to be based on something from the Manga didn't it? I just think it is about time for the Irish Class to get some decent close in weapons like those shown in that image. I believe that those weapons are most likely a refit done to the Areion therefore not an official "retcon" in giving the ship decent machine gun weapons.

Finally I noticed something in my recent rewatch of the Zeta Movies, the Radish looks like its carrying more then just six to eight machines which always has been the guessed amount of machines it can carry. My Computer's CD-ROM is broken therefore can't take any screen shots but it did look like the ship was carrying several more Nemos and even a Red Rick Dias then I remember it having not including the Mark II. Then again a few of these mobile suits could be from the Argama but the majority where gathered around the Radish. This is mainly around the end of the Second Movie where Haman Karn was inspecting the AEUG Mobile Suits, and another shot when the AEUG start talking with Haman at the beginning of the Third Movie. I still maybe wrong and it the Irish does carry Eight but I figured I put it out there.

Anyhow that said I am quite excited we have started to get some new info on this ship for like mentioned happens to be one of my favorites. I like it better then the Alexandria Class. If any one has any other new info about the class feel free to mention it. Thanks in advance.

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Re: Irish Class Battleship: New Info

Post by Deacon Blues » Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:51 pm

First, it's Zwickau, not Zwickbau.

There's a whole lot more:

Irish
Radish
Zwickau [Ecole]
Wadatsumi [Ecole]
Ivanhoe (Commissioned U.C.0087)
Cookstown (Commissioned 10.0087)
St./Sankt Gallen (Construction Started U.C.01.0087, Commissioned U.C.08.0087)[Ecole]
Mustache (Commissioned U.C.02.0088)
Oasis
Congratulation (Commissioned U.C.0088) [F90]
British (Commissioned U.C.0088)
Areleigh Burke (Construction Started U.C.01.0088, Commissioned U.C.12.0088)
St. Ives (Commissioned U.C.01.0089) [F90]
Cologne (Commissioned U.C.03.0089)
Mitterrand (Commissioned 07.0089)
Windermere (Commissioned U.C.01.0090)
Last edited by Deacon Blues on Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Irish Class Battleship: New Info

Post by ShadowCell » Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:53 pm

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i certainly hope his dialogue is all disjointed and overacted and Shatnered

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Re: Irish Class Battleship: New Info

Post by Deathzealot » Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:09 pm

That is what eight...nine Irish Class Ships introduced during the Gryps War alone? That is twice the amount of ships from the old AEUG Fleet Count. The other half being introduced after the war during First Neo-Zeon War I take it. Which does make sense due to AEUG trying to rebuild its fleet after the Battle of Gryps, though we don't really see any Irish Class in ZZ I don't think.

Thought the Mustache was a Argama Class, then again it is kinda easy to get confused due to how similar the two classes are.

Any info on the Areion? For I liked the image I attached with it having Anti-Air Guns/Anti-Mobile Suit Guns and such.

As for the rest of the ships the Class is really turned into a Mass Production Design isn't it, instead of a Limited Produced.
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Re: Irish Class Battleship: New Info

Post by toysdream » Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:26 pm

A lot of these are from unofficial manga and side stories, so I'd take them with a grain of salt. I think the Irish, Radish, and Oasis are the only official ones.

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Re: Irish Class Battleship: New Info

Post by Deathzealot » Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:44 pm

True. Since Bandai has the animated stuff more "official" then the Manga, that still means the Federation Space Forces perhaps had a couple Irish Class in their Fleet. Since if I remember right the Oasis was the Irish from Unicorn.

I have another question, some sources I have found mentioned Maniti Mandena, the female regular Federation officer that talks with Jamaican in Episode Nine is the Captain of the Irish itself. I was wondering if this was true?

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Re: Irish Class Battleship: New Info

Post by Deacon Blues » Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:09 am

Most Japanese sites say that she is the captain.

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Re: Irish Class Battleship: New Info

Post by Wingnut » Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:16 am

Are we not counting that one that got slagged in Evolve 9?
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Re: Irish Class Battleship: New Info

Post by Deathzealot » Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:23 am

Yeah but I always got the impression that Evolve 9 was mainly an alternate take on the series. Even then that maybe the Irish herself for all we know.

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Re: Irish Class Battleship: New Info

Post by toysdream » Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:03 am

Manity Mandena is the captain of a blue-green Irish-class ship that's docked at Granada in episode 9 of Zeta Gundam. The AEUG also has two more ships of this class over at Amman, one of them blue-green, and the other light green. The two blue-green ships both participate in the Jaburo landing operation; maybe the light green one isn't finished yet? I think all the other Irish-class ships we see in the series are blue-green like the Radish, so the pale colors may just be unpainted armor.

Under the circumstances, it's hard to be sure exactly which Irish-class ship Manity is assigned to, but as Deacon notes a lot of the Japanese sources claim it's the Radish.

As for Deacon's list, it seems to be based on this Japanese fan site - possibly by way of the Japanese Gundam wiki - neither of which explains where these ships actually appear. The following are the ones I've been able to source, so you can decide for yourself how seriously you take them. Frankly, the only one I find convincing is the Mustache, since it matches the naming convention used in the animation. :-)

Zeta Gundam: Irish, Radish
Gundam Unicorn: Oasis
Advance of Zeta: Traitor to Destiny: Areion
Ecole du Ciel: Zwickau, Sankt Gallen
Gundam ZZ: Mirage of Zeon: Mustache
Secret Formula: Cookstown
Gundam F90: Arleigh Burke, Congratulation, St. Ives, Mitterrand*
Unknown: Wadatsumi, Ivanhoe, British, Cologne, Windermere

*There are three Irish-class ships in Gundam F90, but it doesn't seem like they're identified by name in the manga, so the Japanese sites must be drawing on some other source. In any case, there's an extra name in this list, so one of these isn't really an Irish-class ship.

Gundam Ace's Data Gundam column, meanwhile, lists the following as Irish-class ships used by the AEUG...

Irish, Radish, Stout, Cookstown, Mustache, Zwickau, Sankt Gallen

Only the first three are marked as official, but I can't find any info on this supposedly official "Stout," and I suspect it may have been inserted as a joke. :-)

-- Mark
Last edited by toysdream on Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Irish Class Battleship: New Info

Post by Deathzealot » Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:37 am

So Mark the Mustache is indeed an Irish-Class? Always thought the Mustache was an Argama-Class?

And you mean Mandena is the Captain of the Irish, not the Radish which I from what I understand wasn't finished as of yet and is only completed after the Jaburo Drop Operation. Then again there is some sources that claim the Irish that is seen with the Argama leaving Amman City is the Radish. I wonder why Henken became the Captain after this for he left the Argama after they left Amman City where he gives command of the Argama to Bright. Kinda confusing to me honestly.

So those are the "Official" Gryps War-Era Irish-Class? Interesting that's still seven ships.

Also Mark you got any further info on the Areion and wither the Anti-Air Guns we see in that Image in the OP is a "Ret-Con" (Doubt) or just a one-time thing for Areion herself?

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Re: Irish Class Battleship: New Info

Post by toysdream » Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:52 am

Only the Irish, Radish, and Stout are official according to the list in Data Gundam. And i'm pretty sure they included "Stout" as a joke.

The Mustache is indeed an Irish-class in the "Mirage of Zeon" manga. It actually ends up being the same ship that's blowing up in the background of the 1/144 ReGelgu model kit box art! It's also the only non-official Irish-class whose name ends with ッシュ, like the ones in the animation.

I've already addressed Manity and the various Irish-class ships that show up around the time of the Jaburo operation. I think it would probably make more sense if the light-green ship at Amman, which doesn't join the operation, ends up being commissioned later as the Radish and Henken is assigned to this newly built ship. But that's purely speculation...

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Re: Irish Class Battleship: New Info

Post by Deacon Blues » Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:38 am

You list the Congratulation as unknown, but the it's mentioned towards the later part of the manga just before the end of Chapter 6. Chances are it's probably the Mitterrand as that's listed as a destroyer (駆逐艦). Other sources claim the Mitterrand was a Solmac-class Planetary Torpedo Ship and that later it was designated an Irish-class a la G Generation F. The Arleigh Burke is claimed to be one of the L-223 type Minesweeper ships.

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Re: Irish Class Battleship: New Info

Post by Deathzealot » Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:02 pm

Thanks everyone for the Info.

However I have couple more questions about the Irish, rather the Radish, from what I seen in the movies after I recently re-watched them.

1. During one scene don't remember where (I think during its last stand) one of the bridge crew mentions something about anti-air guns. I thought the Irish Class as a whole didn't have any anti-air guns at all?

2. Next a two part question about the hanger and the catapults of the Radish. In the one scene where Emma is getting ready to launch in the Mark-II and the Captain mentioning the bit where she is the Flower of the Radish of some sort. You see through the monitors of the Mark-II as it is lead to the catapult three to four Nemos in their berths along one wall are seen. Then the next bit is the Mark-II launching. My question is how this works does the Irish have a similar hanger-layout to the Argama where it has two levels and the Mark-II is headed to an elevator, or is it one level and the hanger located in the forward part of the hull behind the catapults where the hanger is some what like a rectangle? I hope that wasn't too confusing.

The second part of this question is about the rear-catapult. I thought it was an upside-down catapult but during a scene in the movie (again!) we see Emma landing the Mark-II on the top of the extended catapult thing on the back instead of landing upside down on the other side of the catapult. I would also like to ask is this third catapult connected to the forward hanger or does it have its own second hanger? For I remember something way back when mentioning something about it?

Thank you all in advance for any info you can give me.

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Re: Irish Class Battleship: New Info

Post by toysdream » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:08 pm

Deacon Blues wrote:You list the Congratulation as unknown, but the it's mentioned towards the later part of the manga just before the end of Chapter 6. Chances are it's probably the Mitterrand as that's listed as a destroyer (駆逐艦). Other sources claim the Mitterrand was a Solmac-class Planetary Torpedo Ship and that later it was designated an Irish-class a la G Generation F. The Arleigh Burke is claimed to be one of the L-223 type Minesweeper ships.
This actually turns out to be pretty confusing! In G Generation F, the three Irish-class ships featured in Gundam F90 are identified as the St. Ives, the Mitterand, and the Arleigh Burke. But as you point out, the last two of these are explicitly identified as other ship types in the manga. On that one page in Chapter 6, the flagship Admiral Tianem receives damage reports on three other ships in the fleet...

* Minesweeper Arleigh Burke (medium damage)
* Cruiser Congratulation (heavy damage)
* Destroyer Mitterand (destroyed)

At the beginning of Chapter 3, the complete headcount of the fleet is listed as one Cailum-class mobile battleship (Admiral Tianem), three Irish-class ships, three L-233 type minesweepers (presumably a descendant of the L144 minesweeper mentioned in Entertainment Bible 39), two Solmac-class planetary torpedo ships, and two supply ships (which appear to be Salamis-class ships with cargo compartments bolted onto their sides).

Since they don't explicitly mention "cruisers" or "destroyers" in that list, we can probably assume that the torpedo ships are destroyers, and the Irish-class ships are considered cruisers. And in that case, I think you're correct that the Congratulation is an Irish class, the Mitterand is a torpedo ship (AKA destroyer), and the Arleigh Burke is an L-233 type minesweeper. Which means that G Generation F has managed to misidentify 2/3 of the Irish-class ships in this story!

A little earlier in the story, in Chapter 5, we see one unnamed Irish class being destroyed by space Adzams, and there's a verbal report of the minesweeper Tread being destroyed as well. In Chapter 6, there's a mention of the St. Ives, which isn't identified by type or class. If we want to credit G Generation F with getting at least one of the three names right, then we could probably say the Congratulation and St. Ives are Irish class, with the third one unknown.

-- Mark

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Re: Irish Class Battleship: New Info

Post by Cat-Scratched-Victim » Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:06 pm

Deathzealot wrote:Thanks everyone for the Info.

However I have couple more questions about the Irish, rather the Radish, from what I seen in the movies after I recently re-watched them.

1. During one scene don't remember where (I think during its last stand) one of the bridge crew mentions something about anti-air guns. I thought the Irish Class as a whole didn't have any anti-air guns at all?

2. Next a two part question about the hanger and the catapults of the Radish. In the one scene where Emma is getting ready to launch in the Mark-II and the Captain mentioning the bit where she is the Flower of the Radish of some sort. You see through the monitors of the Mark-II as it is lead to the catapult three to four Nemos in their berths along one wall are seen. Then the next bit is the Mark-II launching. My question is how this works does the Irish have a similar hanger-layout to the Argama where it has two levels and the Mark-II is headed to an elevator, or is it one level and the hanger located in the forward part of the hull behind the catapults where the hanger is some what like a rectangle? I hope that wasn't too confusing.

The second part of this question is about the rear-catapult. I thought it was an upside-down catapult but during a scene in the movie (again!) we see Emma landing the Mark-II on the top of the extended catapult thing on the back instead of landing upside down on the other side of the catapult. I would also like to ask is this third catapult connected to the forward hanger or does it have its own second hanger? For I remember something way back when mentioning something about it?

Thank you all in advance for any info you can give me.
I just sort of rewatched the Zeta films, and found that the Irish class was given some interesting new elements that were not shown in the original series. One contradicts what you saw (and I) in the original series and the other adds to it.

It appears that the animators chose to replicate the Argama's upper deck by the launch decks. That skinny area was or appears to be generally animated in the films as thick or almost thick enough for a layout similar to the Argama with two elevators of the same design. Note also, the same middle structure exactly the same as the Argama; so I suspect this was an error or quick adaption as they had no idea of the internal layout.

http://www.imagebam.com/image/46994e270625288

http://www.imagebam.com/image/af3e28270625295

Here's the landing in the rear you mentioned.

http://www.imagebam.com/image/39dc15270625298

I'd say that the Irish class most likely always had two MS decks, one upper and one lower. Note that in one episode that Katsu gets into the G-Defensor while it's on a platform against a wall. The platform raises like an elevator, one similar (sort of) to that seen later on the Nehal-Argama. I've guessed that the MS decks in the Irish class stretch fore and aft as with the original layout of the Nehal-Argama and with the landing we saw in the films, it goes from a rear hatch to the forward hatches to the launch decks. A smaller lower deck is where the Katsu scene occurred and was like with most (theorized) a recovery/secondary launch deck. The elevator probably goes flush with the upper (main) MS deck much like a Yorktown Class aircraft carrier's. But on the lower MS deck, it's against the far wall, far from the hatch.

Something also to note was a bit of dialog about the Irish class having a larger capacity for MS than originally thought. But then, I've always guessed that it depends with any of these ships, in how the MS are arranged in the MS Decks. Back to wall or shoulder to wall... etc. ....

In the end, I'm guessing that the animators never really designed the Irish as completely as they did the Argama or Alexandria and chose to use a simple wall design only for it, when required for scenes. This much like they did with the Salamis.

Hope this helps, I have to say, like the Nahel-Argama, the Irish Class has long been a curiosity for me as I've long liked the ship.

Edit - I forgot to answer your question on AA guns. I've always taken those to be hidden and small fixed position guns arrayed about the hull(s) of the ships of the Zeta era. We always saw beams firing out from locations without guns. Given that the head vulcans are relatively small compared to the ships... could be that this is an answer? The later turrets would given as something more dynamic for defense then only a fixed gun. Then again, could be smaller caliber guns?
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Re: Irish Class Battleship: New Info

Post by JEFFPIATT » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:15 pm

the irish class was based on the Argama class and would have some of the same internal construction. the irash was meant to an simple work horse cruser to replace and supplement the Salamis kai ships the aeug was useing.

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Re: Irish Class Battleship: New Info

Post by toysdream » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:23 pm

As far as the Irish hangar layout, I'd definitely assume it has two layers, just like the Argama and the Nahel Argama. Since the gap between the catapults is so narrow, logically the elevators should be further back behind the catapult decks. But as we've noticed, there doesn't seem to have been a lot of thought put into the design of this ship. :-)

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Re: Irish Class Battleship: New Info

Post by Fritz Ashlyn » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:49 pm

Gentlemen, I have found the origin of the Dervish. :P

That info was jokingly added to the Gundam wiki over 2 years ago IIRC as a joke protest to all the bogus stuff that gets put on there. I think one of our RPG's original characters is also still listed as a Rick Dias pilot. :lol:

Edit: The Oasis is from Unicorn Ace, isn't it?
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Re: Irish Class Battleship: New Info

Post by bilbros » Sun Aug 18, 2013 1:43 pm

Edit: The Oasis is from Unicorn Ace, isn't it?
Not exactly. If I'm not wrong the name was originally mentioned in the 4th voume of the Unicorn novel..or at least the irish class unit featuring there (as well as in its anime counterpart) is supposed to be the Oasis.

By the way, I have the suspect that the Stout reported by Data Gundam it's not a joke, but it might come from the old ZZ gamebooks..although I have no direct proff of it.

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