Size of ships and LARGE objects

[MythSearcher]

modified an old ship picture to include the Whitebase and ships from other timelines.
http://space.uwants.com/attachments/200 ... 81CLzW.jpg

made this LARGE object comparison, Taiwan as a similar sized projection.(I am not Taiwanese)
http://space.uwants.com/attachments/201 ... 016plS.jpg
http://truth.bahamut.com.tw/s01/201308/ ... a0c98a.JPG
(the first one's service provider is known to have errors, the second is more stable, but reduces file resolution some times.)
each pixel is slightly bigger than 1km.

[Xenosynth]

No offense, but if you are the creator of these images....

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Y1oDH9VT_A8/U ... 81CLzW.jpg

Then I'm wondering why I can find higher quality scans of the same images while yours are on two random sites rather than proper imagehosting under the same site, and also that the second link is a link to a taiwanese site. I am assuming you saying 'modified' and 'made' means you are claiming credit.

[MythSearcher]

No offense, but if you are the creator of these images....

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Y1oDH9VT_A8/U ... 81CLzW.jpg

Then I'm wondering why I can find higher quality scans of the same images while yours are on two random sites rather than proper imagehosting under the same site, and also that the second link is a link to a taiwanese site. I am assuming you saying 'modified' and 'made' means you are claiming credit.

The ship image was done a long time ago, thus there is no proper General Revil(the novel version first mentioned its name only) image, and obvious reason for it having no AGE ships.
My blog deletes images every now and then because of unstable hosting, but the current version was uploaded in 2009, thus anyone can get it without acknowledging me.
http://space.uwants.com/index.php?uid-3 ... mid-354875
It you doubt I am the creator, check the image name starts with 34536, which is the user ID of my blog:
http://space.uwants.com/index.php/34536
I did not notice the Taiwanese site lowered the image quality, sorry for that, I will relink it to my blog's image.
I just tend to use other site's space because I re-uploaded this same image on the blog for at least 3 times.

[Xenosynth]

Alright, sorry about that. Just had to be sure you weren't claiming credit for something you didn't do. I saw the image posted recently on toysdaily and so I found it a bit odd because of the image quality and the like.

[MythSearcher]

Alright, sorry about that. Just had to be sure you weren't claiming credit for something you didn't do. I saw the image posted recently on toysdaily and so I found it a bit odd because of the image quality and the like.

If you look at the user id, the picture over there is actually posted by me.
BTW, I reposted the ship image because someone posted the old Japanese version, and when I want to post the Luna 2 and colony vs Taiwan picture, I figured I might as well add all the other large objects in it as well, made it and post on a few main Gundam sites, didn't realize gamer.com.tw site shrunk my image.

[nacho-wan]

I saw this thing posted at Gundam Guy's, I'm wondering if you guys can identify them all:
http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/blogspot ... -size.html

[ShadowCell]

threads merged

[Dark Duel]

I saw this thing posted at Gundam Guy's, I'm wondering if you guys can identify them all:
http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/blogspot ... -size.html

The second image at the link you posted has all the ships from the first image, plus as far as I can tell most (if not all) ships up to and including 00 S2, with each one labeled in English.

[MythSearcher]

I saw this thing posted at Gundam Guy's, I'm wondering if you guys can identify them all:
http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/blogspot ... -size.html

The second image at the link you posted has all the ships from the first image, plus as far as I can tell most (if not all) ships up to and including 00 S2, with each one labeled in English.

I know I missed some of the ships and some found newer specs.
For example, General Revil(Unicorn Anime version, this pic was made before the new art) is 630m, which made it much larger than Dorgosse Giar.(So it would be like Gwazine Class, which the Gwazine itself is 298m but the Gwadine type is 440m, the Dorgosse Giar Class is about 400m from it being the Birmingham class refit, but General Revil type is 630m)
The ones I missed are mostly the ones without spec and I cannot find a trustworthy method to speculate its size. Turn A saw a few of these ships, the MS transport ships which Tallgeese III destroyed in the W EW that can carry a few dozen Serpents also fall into this category.

If anyone got any ideas on what I missed and specs of them, please tell me, I can add them in.

[toysdream]

The Dogosse Giar is actually more like 600 meters - the model sheet shows it as being twice the length of the Alexandria. It's only the Birmingham that's small.

Likewise, the notion that the standard Gwazine is only 294 meters long seems to be entirely the fault of Gundam Officials, which opted to "officialize" the specs from the old Roman Album books rather than the Sunrise-provided specs from Gundam 0083. In every subsequent Sunrise work, such as MS Igloo, all the Gwazine-class ships have been listed at 440 meters.

I think MS Igloo also re-retconned the Papua class down to 253 meters, and reinforced the notion (previously floated by Gundam 0080 and the MSV Collection File) that the Chivvay class is 265 meters long, but I'm away from home right now and can't check...

But for more ship-size nerdage, you may be interested in this old thread.

-- Mark

[MythSearcher]

The Dogosse Giar is actually more like 600 meters - the model sheet shows it as being twice the length of the Alexandria. It's only the Birmingham that's small.

Likewise, the notion that the standard Gwazine is only 294 meters long seems to be entirely the fault of Gundam Officials, which opted to "officialize" the specs from the old Roman Album books rather than the Sunrise-provided specs from Gundam 0083. In every subsequent Sunrise work, such as MS Igloo, all the Gwazine-class ships have been listed at 440 meters.

I think MS Igloo also re-retconned the Papua class down to 253 meters, and reinforced the notion (previously floated by Gundam 0080 and the MSV Collection File) that the Chivvay class is 265 meters long, but I'm away from home right now and can't check...

But for more ship-size nerdage, you may be interested in this old thread.

-- Mark

Well, Dogosse Giar is the modified version of Birmingham(retcon), and one can see the similarity of them, cut out the middle part of Birmingham and you get Dogosse Giar, I get the length of Dogosse Giar by overlapping the images. In which one can see Dogosse Giar is actually a little bit shorter than the Birmingham.

http://space.uwants.com/attachments/201 ... 61HC9p.gif

Most of the strange lengths(or I should say bug lengths) came from 0083 to be honest, if we stick with Zeta TV, Dorgosse Giar is almost always shown to be around 600m. The same thing for Gwadine.
The sad thing is that most of the enemy ships from Zeta do not have length specs on them.(I got 2 books that were published at the time, and none of them got numbers except one stated the Jupitris to be 1km in length, which is 2km in the current settings)

The Gwazine class we see in MS Igloo is Gwadine, so 440m is correct, Delaz did escape ABQ with Gwadine and via E Field.(leaving N Field)
Other MS Igloo numbers are:(from the 2009 MS Igloo 完全設定資料集)
Chivvay class 264.4m, Musai class 234m, Papua 253m(also said to be 300m), Magellan 327m, Salamis 212m.

But the newer "Ship & Aerospace Plane Encyclopedia" by Ascii Mediaworks, uses these numbers on the MS Igloo entry while giving,
MSG: Gwazine 294m, Chivvay 235m, Papua 230m, Musai 234m, Magellan 265m, Salamis 228m
No numbers for 0080 ships,
0083: Gwadine 440m, Musai 234m, Magellan Kai 327m, Salamis Kai 198m.

Gundam Officials listed Gwazine as 294m and Gwadine as 440m and specifically states that Gwadine is specially long.

Salamis is probably the lucky one that has been completely retconned by 0083,
I know older settings put it as 288m,(hence we get ) but since 0083's Salamis Kai, 228m seems to be the correct length for the origin and the Salamis Kai in Zeta.

[toysdream]

On the Dogosse Giar: In the Gundam Unicorn animation, at one point they're trying to match the silhouette of the General Revil by overlaying it with the Dogosse Giar, so you can see the two ships are roughly the same size. And like I said, in the original model sheet the Dogosse Giar is shown next to the Alexandria for a scale comparison, and it's about twice as long. So even if it resembles the Birmingham, it's pretty clearly a 600-meter-class ship.


As for the Gwazine class, the first one that shows up in MS Igloo - at the Battle of Loum in the very first episode - isn't the Gwaden, and the published materials from MS Igloo indicate that 440 meters is the standard length for all ships of this class. I'd also note that the recent MSV Collection File, which was edited by Bandai's Katsumi Kawaguchi, said the standard Gwazine is 440 meters. It's really only Gundam Officials that claimed otherwise, due to Minakawa's weird obsession with the old Roman Album specs, and as a side effect introduced the retcon that the Gwaden was some kind of freakish "super Gwazine". But these days, everyone just copies and pastes from Gundam Officials...

From a more historical standpoint, the old 1/2400 Gwazine kit measures out to about 294 meters, but in Gundam III we see Char's Zanzibar pulled up next to Kycilia's Gwazine, and we can see that the latter ship is more than 1.5 times as long. So the fact that all the Gwazine-class ships from recent Sunrise works are 440 meters long suggests that they're going by the animation, rather than the model kit scale.


Same thing applies to the Magellan class. The old Roman Album said it was 265 meters, which more or less matches the old 1/1200 kit. The specs from Gundam 0083 and MS Igloo have all the Magellans at 327 meters. Gundam Officials went with the former source and ignored the latter, and most of the subsequent publications copied it, so we have a situation where Sunrise says it's about 25% bigger than the third-party publications.


Although the Chivvay didn't appear in Gundam 0083, there were specs for it in the MSV Collection File which put it at 266 meters, which is very close to MS Igloo. And like I pointed out in that previous thread, the Tivvay from Gundam 0080 appears to be about 260 meters as well.


As for the Salamis, it's all over the map. In this case, the old Roman Albums had it as 288 meters, but the 1/1200 model kit was more like 228 meters, and for mysterious reasons Minakawa used the latter figure for Gundam Officials. As I noted in that previous thread, the original ship lineup from Zeta Gundam makes the Salamis Kai look about 288 meters, which it really has to be to accommodate an internal mobile suit hangar. And the MSV Collection File puts the original Salamis at 187 meters, presumably to match the scale of the Gundam 0083 version! It's really a total mess.

-- Mark


P.S. Since I have them handy, here are the specs from the aforementioned MSV Collection File, published in two parts in 1999-2000. They seem to be based largely on the Gundam 0083 specs.

Salamis: overall length 187m, overall width 68m, overall height 50m
Gwazine: overall length 440m, overall width 320m, overall height 103m
Chivvay: overall length 266m, overall width 129m, overall height 119m
Musai: overall length 234m, overall width 140m, overall height 62m
Char's Musai (Falmel): overall length 234m, overall width 140m, overall height 65m

[Geoxile]

Am I the only one who is seeing a very blurry picture for the large masses picture? The bottom is nearly incomprehensible to me. Anyway, how big is Axis?

[Gelgoog Jager]

Although it doesn't indicate the length of a Tivvay, I do want to mention that the first chapter of the MSV-R manga does show a Tivvay being attacked by a FA-78-1B during a simulation. In the middle of the sequence, some notes are shown indicating that this unit was designed to break through fleets in order to directly attack flagships, exemplified in paper as a Gwazine surrounded by six Musais.

Sadly this seems to be the only recent mention about the Tivvay lately, but it does vaguely points out that it do can be considered a substitute for a Gwazine, at least from the Federation's POV. Its classification as a battleship like the Gwazine isntead of a Heavy Cruiser like a regular Civvay also points in that direction.

Therefore I still consider the possibility of the Tivvay classactually being in the 400m size range, along with the Gwazine class, in order to also serve the role of a fleet flagship.

[MythSearcher]

Although it doesn't indicate the length of a Tivvay, I do want to mention that the first chapter of the MSV-R manga does show a Tivvay being attacked by a FA-78-1B during a simulation. In the middle of the sequence, some notes are shown indicating that this unit was designed to break through fleets in order to directly attack flagships, exemplified in paper as a Gwazine surrounded by six Musais.

Sadly this seems to be the only recent mention about the Tivvay lately, but it does vaguely points out that it do can be considered a substitute for a Gwazine, at least from the Federation's POV. Its classification as a battleship like the Gwazine isntead of a Heavy Cruiser like a regular Civvay also points in that direction.

Therefore I still consider the possibility of the Tivvay classactually being in the 400m size range, along with the Gwazine class, in order to also serve the role of a fleet flagship.

I must say that the Chivvay class was designed as a Battleship class, but unfortunately the design was before the major Minovsky Physics breakthrough, and thus it only became a heavy cruiser. It did underwent modernization and can store MSs, with Mega Particle Cannons(If you notice, it is the only ship in UC that got a triple-barrel type gun.) and possibly with new engines.
So a further upgrade or refine to the Tivvay would make it much closer to a battleship class.
Also, the Chivvay itself already served as a fleet flagship (a small one consist of a Chivvay and two Musai) in FG.

I made this picture as well:
If we ditch all settings and use the cannon size to estimate the size of Tivvay with Chivvay's later refined model(Igloo)
http://space.uwants.com/attachments/201 ... 71DCYX.jpg
The length of the red bar is 219 pixels, and the length of the red and cyan bar is 377 pixels.
Since Chivvay is 264.4m long, Tivvay can be estimated to 455m.
I used the cannons to estimate the size because it is quite unlikely that the Tivvay used exoticly small cannons, since the Igloo Chivvay is already using much smaller ones than the original, (If you estimate the Tivvay with that, the Igloo Chivvay will also be huge, but this is not the case) So this estimation is based on Zeon using smaller cannons on refined models, but does not fit well with the Chivvay Kai in Zeta(which still uses big cannons)

And while I was on this, I found new evidence about the size of Tivvay.
There's actually a side comparison picture of Tivvay, Musai(Final production), Camouflaged Freighter and an MS in MSG Ship & Aerospace Plane Encyclopedia.

http://space.uwants.com/attachments/201 ... 71xjNb.jpg

The Tivvay, is 14 times the length of an MS, so it is about 252~280m (depending if you think an MS is 18 or 20m)
The Musai Final production type is 13 times the length of an MS, so it is about 234~260m.

The Musai number concur really well with previous Musais, which is 234m, so the "Tivvay is 250m" version is kinda canon.

[toysdream]

Yep, I noted that scale comparison in the previous thread. There's actually enough data in the model sheets that we can figure the size of the Aqua Verde relative to a human being, which indicates that it's about 30 meters long; this further confirms that the Musai is about 234 meters, and the Tivvay about 260.

Speaking of scaling things by the gun turrets, it's interesting to compare the Archangel, Izumo, and Girty Lue on this basis. The later two ships are in the same scale, but going by the official specs the Archangel's gun turrets - and the ship itself - are really enormous. Early on, the Archangel was described as being 345 meters long, but somewhere along the way they bumped it up to its current monster size.

--- Mark

[MythSearcher]

Speaking of scaling things by the gun turrets, it's interesting to compare the Archangel, Izumo, and Girty Lue on this basis. The later two ships are in the same scale, but going by the official specs the Archangel's gun turrets - and the ship itself - are really enormous. Early on, the Archangel was described as being 345 meters long, but somewhere along the way they bumped it up to its current monster size.

--- Mark

The comparison using gun turrets gets the crowning moment of funniness when we look at METEOR and Eternal.

[toysdream]

In other gun turret news, I've also been looking at some of the ships from Gundam 00. The model sheets include lots of comparisons to mobile suits - that's the good news - but they don't seem to be entirely consistent, and the proportions of the overall ship often look different in different views.

Many of the Union and Earth Sphere Federation ships use a standard model of laser cannon turret, which is identified as a "10 meter-class" laser cannon. In the Artorious and Nile class, from the Gundam 00 movie, these cannons do seem to be about 10 meters long - half the height of a standard mobile suit - and measuring relative to mobile suits or gun turrets gives you similar results. (The length of the Artorious is about 13 times the height of a Brave, or about 26 times the length of a laser turret; that's about 260 meters either way. The Nile class is about 21 times the height of a GN-X, or 40 times the length of a laser turret; that's about 400 meters either way.)

With some of the other ships, though, you get different results, suggesting that their cannons may be scaled up. The dimensions of the Ural class, for example, are pretty well established by all the comparisons to Aheads and Regnants in the model sheets; its central compartment is about 80 meters wide, the smaller side ones are about 40 meters high, the overall ship seems to be about 160 meters wide by 250 meters long. But it's also 18 times as long as a laser cannon turret, which suggests these turrets are more like 15 meters. Ditto for the A-LAWS land battleship, which is supposed to be about 200 meters long and is 13.5 times as long as its turrets. As for the A-LAWS' standard Baikal-class cruiser, I haven't a clue!

-- Mark

[MythSearcher]

In other gun turret news, I've also been looking at some of the ships from Gundam 00. The model sheets include lots of comparisons to mobile suits - that's the good news - but they don't seem to be entirely consistent, and the proportions of the overall ship often look different in different views.

Many of the Union and Earth Sphere Federation ships use a standard model of laser cannon turret, which is identified as a "10 meter-class" laser cannon. In the Artorious and Nile class, from the Gundam 00 movie, these cannons do seem to be about 10 meters long - half the height of a standard mobile suit - and measuring relative to mobile suits or gun turrets gives you similar results. (The length of the Artorious is about 13 times the height of a Brave, or about 26 times the length of a laser turret; that's about 260 meters either way. The Nile class is about 21 times the height of a GN-X, or 40 times the length of a laser turret; that's about 400 meters either way.)

With some of the other ships, though, you get different results, suggesting that their cannons may be scaled up. The dimensions of the Ural class, for example, are pretty well established by all the comparisons to Aheads and Regnants in the model sheets; its central compartment is about 80 meters wide, the smaller side ones are about 40 meters high, the overall ship seems to be about 160 meters wide by 250 meters long. But it's also 18 times as long as a laser cannon turret, which suggests these turrets are more like 15 meters. Ditto for the A-LAWS land battleship, which is supposed to be about 200 meters long and is 13.5 times as long as its turrets. As for the A-LAWS' standard Baikal-class cruiser, I haven't a clue!

-- Mark

I am quite interested in the designers of these ships.
I wonder if the ones that kept the turrets to scale are designed by the same person, and the ones that are not by another.
Usually the same careful designer will keep his/her carefulness on all designs, while those that use the "whatever looks good" style will simply ignore all reasoning.
Or maybe the designer is consistent, but whoever gave them specs isn't.

For the Baikal Class, I like the design, but the MS deck seems to be too large.
From the drawings, the 6 MSs stand apart to take up about 2/7 of the length of the ship, if the ship is about 430m long, I'll use 420 for the sake of simple math, it should be taking up 120m of space, that means the MSs are standing about 24m apart from each other. However, in the drawings, it seems like they are standing extremely close to each other, and there's just enough space to place an extra MS in the middle instead of having space for them to lie down. Also, the height of that ship is only about 1/3 of its length, but it should be less than 1/4.

[Erisie]

modified an old ship picture to include the Whitebase and ships from other timelines.
http://space.uwants.com/attachments/200 ... 81CLzW.jpg

Something I'd like to add. I made this size comparison a while ago, based on MAHQ's listed sizes:
http://i.imgur.com/OSIVCwo.jpg

And yes, the Archangel is fucking enormous (420m).