Retired MS use

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

As the title explains, we know how older, mass produced MS that get retired from combat duty, but still in surplus numbers more or less, can get refurbished (stripped of weapons and other slight mods) and be purchased by civilians and others (like we see with Gyunei's Hobby Hizack or the Macadonia Army's Heavyguns), but is it known what they could be used for besides some obvious applications (museum pieces, construction work, guarding out of the way bases, etc)?

[Zball]

Kit planes and hobby planes are sometimes used for flight shows and fairs, so that's probable. Gyunei's Hobby Hi-Zack actually has one of those demonstration color schemes. One some military bases (and civilian airfields), older aircraft are used as "hacks", that is, gophers and transport for people who are important enough not to be driven around but not important enough to warrant an actual transport of their own.

[Toxicity]

Aren't many of the US Air Force's retired aircraft preserved in some manner in case the need should ever arise for them to be pushed back into service? Perhaps the same is done with mobile suits. Undoubtedly some old MS end up in museums or reassigned for training purposes or just scrapped for materials.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

I wouldn't be surprised if they did so considering Zeon did so with the Zaku I in the OYW (though, it wasn't retired for very long before it was brought back in again to help bolster their lost numbers from Operation British and such).

Things like the Jegan could be about halfway there in that it wasn't retired right after CCA (though they thought of it with the idea for the Nu Gundam Mass Production Type), but it was constantly overhauled and upgraded to keep in service should the need arise (though proved fruitless against the CV's modern MS along with its more recent Heavyguns and G-Cannons). The same with the Jamesgun and Javelin against Zanscare and, as said, the (now 50 year old) Heavyguns that were used by the Macedonia Army.

And we do see that Roy Jung must keep his museum-piece MS in somewhat good condition considering he went out with the 10 year old F-50D (RXR-44) Guntank R-44 that seemed to at least drive and fire its cannons (though, one barrel blew up, IIRC) and even still transform.

And we do see older MS used for training like Zaku II F2s and Gelgoog Marines in 0083. Dunno about later on, but I'm sure they would keep updating to more "modern" MS for training purposes as the years go on like we see Quess and Hathaway in a training simulator in a Jegan.

[Meteoid]

Gundam 00 shows various groups in the first season using outdated models like the Anf, Hellion and Realdo and later Katharon gets Flags and Enacts after the power blocs get the GN-Xs.
There they were either sold to ally countries who presumably couldn't afford or weren't allowed the top end models similar to what America does with it's F-15s.
The rest were probably kept as backups or for training, remember that it takes a lot of time and money to develop new MSs, they can't just replace their entire fleet at once, so there would be an overlap period when the older ones would be still used in combat and still getting destroyed.

Or alternatively if the Air Force is anything to go by, what the RAF do is to strip planes right down and any components that can be updated are updated and handed down, the raw materials such as the airframe can be melted down and reused. So maybe Mobile Suits are recycled, if Mobile Suits are constructed to the same standards as fighter aircraft then the components have a very long service life for precisely that purpose.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

That would certainly make sense, especially with several things ending up being standard on virtually all MS during and after Zeta (Gundarium Gamma, panoramic monitor/linear-seat cockpit, beam weapons, etc).

That's really the goal sides TRY to have; making MS similar in construction and use so pilots can pilot different MS a lot easier (as Zeon did with the United Maintenance Plan), despite their somewhat different functions which equals less training required (unless a MS is much more specialized) while also saving costs and materials which can be used on other prototypes or projects. Of course, as we know, Zeon didn't try to implement such a thing until the very end of the war (pretty much did the opposite) while the Federation did so almost right from the get-go after the Project V MS with the GM series, with some specialized/limited production/unique units thrown into the mix.

That, coupled with their still-superior manufacturing capabilities, technology, and (recovered) resources is most likely part of the reason they caught up so quickly to Zeon in MS production.

[JEFFPIATT]

the way it's depicted the surplus ms units are basically refurbished in to either labor or sporting units. some seem to be kept as agressor ms. by the victory era AE is selling older MS to the independent colonies for garrison use. The RXR-44 was not in very good condition since we see one of the cannons explode during it's deployment.

[reeoyuy]

Or alternatively if the Air Force is anything to go by, what the RAF do is to strip planes right down and any components that can be updated are updated and handed down, the raw materials such as the airframe can be melted down and reused. So maybe Mobile Suits are recycled, if Mobile Suits are constructed to the same standards as fighter aircraft then the components have a very long service life for precisely that purpose.

I bet in OOverse, there's boneyard similar to what US have today but instead of surplus F-16s we have unused Realdos lined up (and Flags when GN-X introduced). Since Union/AEU MSs are similar to fighter jets, we can assume they're treated the same.

Problems with still using old MS are maintenance cost and lack of spare parts, especially when assembly line of said MS is already closed. One solution is to cannibalize other MS for parts. Maybe that's one purpose of still keeping old MSs around; use it for training or backups, and parts sources. Who knows, maybe a mono-eye lens of a Zaku is compatible with Geara Doga (heck, Zeta Zaku works anyway).

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Problems with still using old MS are maintenance cost and lack of spare parts, especially when assembly line of said MS is already closed.

Pretty much what happened with the Y-Wing in Star Wars and how it ended going from the much more complete Clone Wars design to the well-known "modern" (stripped down) design by Episodes IV, V, and VI; lack of spare parts made it hell to keep maintained for repair crews, so they simply stripped off armor all over and leaving only the bare essentials like around the cockpit and such.

[blind_dead_mcjones]

I bet in OOverse, there's boneyard similar to what US have today but instead of surplus F-16s we have unused Realdos lined up (and Flags when GN-X introduced). Since Union/AEU MSs are similar to fighter jets, we can assume they're treated the same.

that would definately be true for the realdos, can't say the same for hellion (due to the sheer number of them out there being used by all sorts of people, the hellion is to the Anf what the FAL is to the AK) or the flags, enacts and tieren high mobility type-b's as they were still in frontline service in the ESF ground forces

[GN_Monkey]

Hmm. This might explain why I saw a TIEREN in the 00 movie. I feel sorry for the poor bastard who had to go out in one of those.

[Meteoid]

Hmm. This might explain why I saw a TIEREN in the 00 movie. I feel sorry for the poor bastard who had to go out in one of those.

In fact the 00 movie shows Flags, Enacts, Tierens and I distinctly remember a Realdo hover tank clinging to the underside of a ship. That shows that they keep their old mobile suits and can reactivate them in a massive emergency, what likely happened was "Hey guys this massive alien invasion force is coming, if anyone has any MS training at all come on down and fight in the suit you most likely used to use". Interestingly though, I saw no Aheads or GN-XIIIs zooming around, I'd guess that means the Aheads were destroyed when A LAWS were disbanded and the GN-XIIIs were re-fitted into GN-XIVs

[reeoyuy]

Actually, there are GN-XIII seen during ELS battle. In ESF color, complete with the lance. As for Ahead, probably most, if not all them destroyed when Ribbons fired Celestial Being Mothership huge cannon at the end of season 2. Just like how Titans forces conveniently wiped out by colony laser. Even if there's some Ahead left most likely they kept in boneyard since ESF no longer use them again and it's a hassle to activate them and transporting them to fight ELS. Space Flags and Tieren are still in use for elevator/colony maintenance it seems, so rounding them up in short time is much easier.

[Meteoid]

I doubt that reactivating a powerful mobile suit that can curb-stomp a 3rd Generation (albeit very damaged) Gundam is too much hassle when dealing with a threat like the ELS. The ones that survived the final battle were probably destroyed publicly when the new administration disbanded A-LAWS. But the use of Flags and Enacts is the point I was making about boneyards, they likely raided them for every single Mobile Suit that could be used to fight. Or just the storage hangars you sometimes see on Airbases.

[blind_dead_mcjones]

I doubt that reactivating a powerful mobile suit that can curb-stomp a 3rd Generation (albeit very damaged) Gundam is too much hassle when dealing with a threat like the ELS. The ones that survived the final battle were probably destroyed publicly when the new administration disbanded A-LAWS. But the use of Flags and Enacts is the point I was making about boneyards, they likely raided them for every single Mobile Suit that could be used to fight. Or just the storage hangars you sometimes see on Airbases.

more or less, also its not like they could've used any aheads that may have been left due to the very bad PR that surrounded them, they were able to get away with using the gaga because they lacked that

that said the flags, enacts, and tierens weren't entirely phased out of the ESF army to begin with, so getting workable one in large numbers would've been easy even without raiding boneyards, though there weren't any hellions or realdos (outside of the tank versions) in use during that battle with the ELS...

[SonicSP]

Gundam 00 shows various groups in the first season using outdated models like the Anf, Hellion and Realdo and later Katharon gets Flags and Enacts after the power blocs get the GN-Xs.
There they were either sold to ally countries who presumably couldn't afford or weren't allowed the top end models similar to what America does with it's F-15s.
The rest were probably kept as backups or for training, remember that it takes a lot of time and money to develop new MSs, they can't just replace their entire fleet at once, so there would be an overlap period when the older ones would be still used in combat and still getting destroyed.

As I recall from the HG GN-X III ESF manual (which would be referring to the year 2312 I guess), it mentions that most of the conventional MS are still in service and they still outnumber the GNMS suits. Some evidence can also be seen in animation in the Break Pillar incident where there's a huge number of conventional MS on the ESF side too.

2nd Mechanics book mentions that they're mostly used for guard duty since not all bases has GNMS either (forgivable, considering we're talking about a global scale here). I think Katharon has made a habit of attacking the bases without GNMS and get out before the GNMS from another base can response but I cannot remember which specific source mentions this. The 2nd Mechanics did mention that one advantage of conventional suits is that they can take advantage of the Solar Energy System to give them an unlimited operation time (we know the Flags and Enacts have the SES microwave receiver system by default, I dunno what this means for the Tierens, Hellions and Realdos though) and this is one advantage they have over the GNMS it mentions, since the GNMS requires special bases with recharging stations and they need to revisit this quite frequently since they cannot take advantage of the SES. It doesnt mention why GNMS in general cannot take advantage of it, but my personal speculation would be that the GN Particles of the system can really mess up the energy transmission process.

Also, Anfs are still used for a variety of purposes in 2312, including construction that one of the countries had. 00N had a chapter dedicated to them once, and even gave a us a chart of all the different Anfs there are that are still in use even in 2312. I guess they're still in used in some areas despite being fossil fuel based.

[Imperial]

Depends on the universe, really

The Universal Century features things like the Hobby Hizack for civilian collectors. We also see some One Year War relics assigned to Jaburo, which really isn't of any consequence by the time of the Gryps War and serves as nothing more than a lure. So it appears the Federation has a habit of slowly funneling older models to the rear lines before they're dismantled or sold off for scratch. Zeon had a similar approach in consigning most of its Zaku I models to rear line or comparatively low-risk work, but they're a bit harder to grasp because they lost the war. However, we do know some models lived on to constitute the Republic of Zeon's garrisons.

After Colony features Leos being deployed en masse even when they were twenty years out of date. Though it seems natural they might have been replaced by the likes of the Taurus and Virgo, the Leos were apparently produced in large enough numbers and still considered viable enough that we see them the participating in the final battle of the series. I suppose 'tried and true' wins out over 'cutting edge' in After Colony with the wrinkle of the Mobile Doll System.

00's AD calendar, meanwhile, features things like the Human Reform League selling off its outdated surplus to seemingly anyone who has the coin, which is how the Anf seems to wind up the in the hands of so many "backwater" countries and terrorist cells.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

In terms of AC, the Leo was used so much (along with the Aries and other existing models at the time) probably because of the fact that no other faction had any better, if any MS at all; at the most, they'd simply have stolen Leos and other models most of the time which trained and experienced soldiers could beat using their own, unless the opposition manages to make their own MS, like the Magnac Corp, but that's tipped out in their much smaller numbers, so Romefeller and OZ probably saw little need to waste money making anything better until the vastly superior Gundams came along which would've drastically spurred the "need" for better MS themselves.

I'd guess the Taurus nor Virgo never fully replaced the Leo simply because of timing, similar to the Gelgoog and/or Rick Dom to the Zaku II (or like the TIE Interceptor to the standard TIE Fighter); their numbers simply didn't reach high enough in time to completely replace the Leo by the time the Eve Wars ended.

Given Trieze's nature of hating Mobile Dolls, I'd guess he stuck with space Leos and not, at the very least, Taurus's because the Leo had no real association with Mobile Dolls besides testing while many Taurus's were converted into Mobile Dolls and the Virgo series was completely Mobile Doll controlled. Though, as said, there probably weren't enough Taurus's to go around either, even if he wanted to use them while there were more than enough Leos.

[JEFFPIATT]

00's AD calendar, meanwhile, features things like the Human Reform League selling off its outdated surplus to seemingly anyone who has the coin, which is how the Anf seems to wind up the in the hands of so many "backwater" countries and terrorist cells.

Witch is funny since Sergei called out the AEU on doing the same thing in the first episode of 00.

[Dendrobium Stamen]

Witch is funny since Sergei called out the AEU on doing the same thing in the first episode of 00.

Well, not really.

Sergei made that comment on the day the Enact made its first public demonstration. With that in mind, it's fairly safe to say that there were no more than a handful of production-model Enact models operating anywhere on Earth, with maybe a handful more pre-production types kicking around to supplement them. As such, at that point in 2307 the Hellion (or more specifically, the AEU-05/05 Hellion Perpetuum) would still have very much been the primary frontline machine of the AEU Forces, meaning the Advanced European Union was exporting derivatives of its current-model MS to any nation or group with the financial backing necessary to purchase them.

On the other hand, the Anf, a stripped-down-for-export model of the Fantong, had been superseded by the Tieren as the "newest" HRL machine by 2292 - fifteen years before the animated story begins. So yes, the Human Reform League is "guilty" of exporting its mobile suits to whomsoever can afford them, but its export types are antiques, not current models, and even then they're stripped back.

So, Sergei's point about the AEU stands, to be quite fair.