UC Mobile suit operating times

[domino]

Are there any calculations or statistics on mobile suit operating times?

What about the number of times a mobile suit can fire a beam rifle (depending on whether or not it's using E-CAP technology) i.e. how many times could a Gundam or Gelgoog fire their beam rifle? Any calculations to determine such?

[azrael]

Not really.

UC MS run on thermonuclear reactors and their run times are virtually unlimited, or whenever they run out of fuel for the reactor which normally doesn't happen on-screen. But while electricity itself may be unlimited, UC MS need Minovsky particles to use their beam weapons. UC MS don't produce enough energy to generate Minovsky particles. They produce sufficient energy to compress Minovsky particles into mega-particles for beam weapons, but the actual generation of Minovsky particles is beyond a MS reactor's capabilities. So it may be better to ask, what volume of Minovsky particles can a MS store.

As for the alternate universe Gundams...that's a different story.

[domino]

Thanks azrael.

I'm familiar with what you said above however I'm still wondering if any of the technical books/manuals ever indicated how many shots the Gundam had in its beam rifle before it needed to be recharged for instance. Taken further, did the GM have the same number of shots available from its beam spray gun or more?
What about the Gelgoog?

Considering that UC beam weapons typically have a power rating (Watts) and the Minovsky reactor also has a power rating (Watts) then I assumed there'd be a calculation or tabulation somewhere indicating the above.

Isn't that how others have calculated maximum MS speeds?

[Brave Fencer Kirby]

Actually, the biggest constraint on mobile suit operating time is said to be heat build up. Admittedly, this isn't really borne out in the animation, but then again the animation rarely shows MS returning to their carriers except at the end of a mission or when damaged. Given how difficult it is to shed heat in space (doubly so due to MS's lack of radiators), and the fact that MS apparently use their entire bodies as heat sinks, once a certain amount of heat built up, they'd have to return to their carriers (which are supposed to have cooling equipment) or roast themselves to death.

Given that we never really see this (though we do see propellant tanks on certain designs, so at least there's that much thought going into it), it's probably safe to assume that other concerns (likely ammo or propellant... though I don't recall a MS ever returning to base due to dwindling propellant, either) are generally what limits MS operating time in practice.

[toysdream]

Just posted a bunch of weapons specs over here. According to this, both the Gundam's beam rifle and the GM's beam spray gun can fire 16 shots when they're fully charged. The Master Archive book discussed in that thread also claims that, once the beam spray gun has used up all its energy (i.e. its supply of stored Minovsky particles), it takes about 40 seconds for it to build up enough enough charge to fire another shot.

This figure been pretty consistent over the years - as far back as the early '80s, it was being claimed that the G-Armor's cannons could fire three times as many shots as the Gundam's beam rifle, and that this came to roughly 45 shots. So the estimate of 15-16 shots for the Gundam's rifle hasn't changed in almost 30 years.

The estimates for E pack-based weapons, though, are pretty wonky. One of the early Zeta Gundam publications claimed that the Gundam Mark II's beam rifle could only fire 3-7 shots per energy pack, depending on its power setting, and later sources have dutifully repeated this despite the fact it doesn't make a lick of sense.

Speaking of which: Logically, the biggest constraint on a mobile suit's operating time should be running out of propellant, but as Kirby notes we never really see this in the animation. According to the old MSV books, even the MS-06R-1 Zaku II High Mobility Type can run its engines at full power for 15 minutes, and that's supposed to be exceptionally short.

-- Mark

[domino]

Thanks for the information Mark.

Do you think there's any calculations that can be used to determine the above? ie using the power rating of the MS' generator versus the power rating of the beam weapon?

[toysdream]

I don't think so - the relationship between the numbers seems fairly arbitrary, and when it comes to recharge times, the limiting factor is the mobile suit's ability to produce Minovsky particles rather than electricity. (Since it's recharging a particle storage device, not a battery.)

It's unclear, too, whether the "output" figures listed for various beam weapons reflect the electricity the mobile suit is putting into the device, or the energy of the beam the device emits. In most cases, the beam output is higher than that of the mobile suit's generator, so the former seems unlikely. (Although it should be trivial to boost the generator output with that amazing futuristic device known as a "battery".) But if it's the latter - if the output spec reflects the energy of the beam itself - then there's probably no direct relationship whatsoever to the mobile suit's generator output.

And what's more, we can't even do something basic like multiplying the beam output by the number of shots to compare the weapons' particle capacities. Since the particles in the beam are accelerated as they travel down the barrel, a shot from the Gundam's beam rifle should have higher energy per particle than a shot from a beam spray gun, and we can't even guarantee that the shots are of the same duration!

In the end, then, these specs seems fairly useless. Maybe that's why they eventually stopped providing them. :-\

-- Mark

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Even though they're not canon, even video games have usually kept 16 shots when it comes to beam rifles before needing a bit of a recharge time to "reload" the "ammo" before firing another 16 shots. Of course, that's merely for the game in terms of more ammo appearing like that.

Though, again, for game purposes, they tend to extend the number of shots for the beam spray gun. Most likely because of its smaller size and, at normal range anyway, weaker power. (Said to only be as strong or stronger than the beam rifle at short ranges.) On the flip side, bigger beam weapons tend to have less shots and take longer to fire in between shots. (Closest example I can think of being the Rise from the Ashes game for Dreamcast.)

The general concept could work like that at least; stronger beam weapons like mega beam rifles and mega beam cannons, because of needing more juice to build up and fire, would have a slower firing rate and fewer shots than a smaller beam weapon like beam spray guns or beam machine guns.



The only time I immediately recall a "mid-battle" return (besides for damage) would be during 0083 when we see the Neue Ziel hooked up with a bunch of cables to a Musai; most likely being recharged and refueled from fighting the bunch of Federation battleships and the Dendrobium. Same could probably be said with the Dendrobium when it returned to replace its empty weapon containers.

[Nebfer]

I have read the "Heat Issue" as well, though fuel should be a even bigger concern.

Though the "15min" from the R1 is something I have not seen.
The only other burn times that I have seen was from the "old specs" that only gave them ~30 seconds of fuel.

[bluemax151]

Data card for Gundam Beam Rifle
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s51/ ... 1287731505

Data card for Beam Spray gun and GM Sniper rifle
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s51/ ... 1287731562

Data card for Gundam MKII beam rifle Mark was talking about
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s51/ ... 1287731878

In the case of OYW beam weapons tend to have a power rating that is equal to MS reactor ratings but Zeta for example has beam weapon ratings that significantly exceed MS reactor ratings.

[toysdream]

The figures on the first two cards aren't the weapon power outputs - the label says "Recommended generator output", as I noted in the Master Archive thread. The Master Archive lists both recommended generator and weapon outputs for these weapons, and the latter are invariably higher.

-- Mark

[bluemax151]

I'm aware of that
推奨 (すいしょう) - recommendation/endorsement
出力 (しゅつりょく) - output

Last time you stated these were listed on 80's shot glasses as outputs though. Regardless they still showcase the wacky shot counts.

[toysdream]

I'm aware of that
推奨 (すいしょう) - recommendation/endorsement
出力 (しゅつりょく) - output

Last time you stated these were listed on 80's shot glasses as outputs though.

What? You must be thinking of something else.

-- Mark

[AmuroNT1]

I thought OYW beam rifles were charged at the MS' home base/mothership, which would mean that "recommended generator output" stat would be meaningless - and, beyond that, it would mean that even MS with weaker reactors like the Zaku II could use beam weapons. Or did that get changed some time in the past and I just didn't hear about it?

[Majin Tenshi]

While most of the power for UC beam weapons is in e-caps or e-pacs, the suit does need enough power to initiate firing.

Think of it like the hammer with a bullet. A bullet is stored in a fairly stable state, but by adding a bit of energy, it can be fired. If you can't apply enough energy, you can't fire the bullet.

M-particles are stored in the weapon in a state of compression. Not so close to firing that they're dangerous to be near, but close enough that they can be pushed the rest of the way easily. If the suit's reactor can't produce that much energy, it can't fire the weapon.

Most suits developed before the invention of suit use beam weapons would not have taken that extra power requirement into consideration. They would have either built a reactor designed for the needs of the suit, or found uses for any extra power they had from the reactor.

Some suits have the ability to charge their own shots, but at a slow rate. Thats really an issue of what kinds of power is being generated. Electricity from the reactor is useless in that regard, and we generally don't know how much of the listed output is m-particles if any is at all.