The GM Kai's reputation

[Calubin_175]

Both the MG and HGUC manuals of the land color type emphasized that the GM Kai had a poor reputation during the plight of Operation Stardust.

First of all, regardless of its production numbers, the GM Kai was not fully deployed as a mainstay unit. This was because it did not hold its ground against the relatively older machines utilized by the Delaz Fleet. It has been said that the Delaz Fleet could bring down such "Normal GMs" with ease. In actuality, the Delaz Fleet used raid tactics and destroyed many GM Kai's in Torrington base which haven't entered combat state.

While it possessed decent spec, soon after it assumed the seat of mainstay unit, the seat was surrendered to its successor, the GM II.

[Dendrobium Stamen]

I've always wondered about the GM Kai and its seemingly brief existence...

From the tiny, tiny fragments of the MG kit manual I can understand, it seems to have been deployed by/at Luna II in the final week of the One Year War as some kind of moderately upgraded hybrid between the "stock" -79 and -79[E] variants, which seemed to prefer slug-spitting weapons over the mainline model's beam spray gun. Then, during the Federation Forces Reconstruction Plan in 0081, production of the -79 ends, with the -79C picking up the slack.

From this post, we could assume a fairly reasonable situation in which the GM Series at this point is playing second fiddle to Zeon-derived machines being cranked out by factories the Federation captured during the OYW's climax, with a rather significant number of Federal Forces MS squadrons effectively being made up of Zeonic MS, and GM-derived units only slowly replacing them.

Between their poor showing during Operation Stardust, and the fact that post-OYW Federation pilots were already geared up for piloting Zeon-type MS, the GM Kai dies out in favour of the Hizack, Galbaldy, and the GM II which succeeds the -79, not -79C. Even the elite Earth-centric Titans, who start off with the Federation-based GM Quell, are operating the Hizack as their mainstay unit within four years of their creation!

Its reputation, then, seems to come from the Stardust era itself, where Zaku and Dom types similar (if not identical) to those already being operated by other Federation Forces squadrons outmatched and overpowered the poor GM Kai. Whether this was inferiority on the part of the MS, the pilots operating them, or the tactics they operated under, the -79C ends UC 0083 under a dark cloud.

Is it deserved, though? I'm not so sure.

Using the MAHQ specs, it seems the RGM-79C is only marginally superior to the RGM-79 it replaces - a 2000kg increase in thrust and a 300m boost in sensor range are hardly groundbreaking features, and the impressive rifles wielded by the MG version could just as easily be carried by the original model. So, in performance terms it's a minor upgrade to a machine which effectively won the One Year War - it's not on a par with the GM Sniper II or GM Custom, perhaps, but it's still no slouch either.

The reputation, then, surely must come from one of the two other factors: pilots or tactics. One would think post-OYW Federation pilots would actually be superior to their predecessors - more time to train on their machines, a more efficient training program, and so forth, all of which should improve pilot quality, surely. So that leaves us with tactics - and to be fair, this is probably where I'd lay the blame, on senior officers content to throw GMs away to protect what remained of the expensive cruisers and battleships the Delaz Fleet were laying waste to.

Of course, mud sticks, so because it was the GM Kai ranks that were decimated during Stardust, they got it in the neck as far as reputation goes - the Zakus guarding other locations survived, tipping the scales in favour of evolving the next generation of Federation MS from these MS, rather than their native designs.

The GM line survives, of course: as noted, mud sticks, so the combined dirt of Zeon and Titan reputations seems to kill off the range of Federation-Zeon hybrid designs in Federal Forces use in favour of more "traditional" models like the GM III, Jegan, and their successors for the next six decades. So, effectively, the -79C effectively "won" the reputation war in the long run, as the Federal Forces shift back to designs which probably trace their origins more closely to this variant than other RGM-79 models.

[Nowhere Man]

It's possible that they began rolling out the C-type in UC 0081 for simply for practicality's sake and never really considered it continuing to be a true frontline machine; "They're a little bit better than the B-type, and we don't have much in the way of an easily mass-produced successor machine, so why not just crank out the C-type until we figure out something to replace it?"

Operation Stardust, then, killed the C-type simply because the Delaz Fleet made it look... well... bad. Really bad. Do we know when the RGM-179/RGM-79R started seeing the light of day? Because I'd imagine that it would be around the time the C-type got the boot, and that the Federation never really shed a tear or had second thoughts about casting the GM Kai off and beginning production of the GM II.

The RMS-106 Hizack, in turn, sees success due to two things: 1) many EF pilots have trained on/gotten used to piloting Zeon MS, and 2) much of the Zeonic Company's staff fled to Anaheim Electronics. Boom. Match made in heaven.

[J-Lead]

The RMS-106 Hizack, in turn, sees success due to two things: 1) many EF pilots have trained on/gotten used to piloting Zeon MS, and 2) much of the Zeonic Company's staff fled to Anaheim Electronics. Boom. Match made in heaven.

The first one has been mentioned here a few times and is quite plausible, but Zeonic getting absorbed into anaheim should have nothing to do with the Hizack as they had no part in it's construction or development.

[JEFFPIATT]

it looks to me to have been a shift in military spending. between 0080 and 0083 the EFF is building a new state of the art military while using captured zeon equipment to improve there own stuff almost a nato concept. post 0083 the fed decides to rebuild and extend its equipment the GM II is a full upgrade to existing GM's and ends up being produced as a new model. The Hi-Zack is a Zaku clone with RGM based tech. the Fed even builds late model zeon units from parts to fill military roles. this fits with the USSR feel given to the EFF in 0079 and other orignal productions. The EFF is like any real milltary the plans for a Re-Fit for the rgm-79 had to be planned before or while the c type was being rolled out why dispose of the still good frames. We still use old airframes with new equipment today. The UC era has to be no different. The C type may have been dropped when the R equipment showed to be cheaper and it could not have helped when the bulk of the cadets liked the simple zaku compared to the more advanced GM.

[Nowhere Man]

The RMS-106 Hizack, in turn, sees success due to two things: 1) many EF pilots have trained on/gotten used to piloting Zeon MS, and 2) much of the Zeonic Company's staff fled to Anaheim Electronics. Boom. Match made in heaven.

The first one has been mentioned here a few times and is quite plausible, but Zeonic getting absorbed into anaheim should have nothing to do with the Hizack as they had no part in it's construction or development.

... Eh?

http://www.mechascientific.com/aoz/ttt_ ... tion-type/

http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/aoz/yrms-106.htm

The Hizack is the first mass production mobile suit brought into the world by Anaheim Electronics. Its external appearance resembles that of the famous Zaku II used by the old Zeon forces, and this design could only have been created by Anaheim, which has absorbed the Zeonic Company, which was once Zeon’s major mobile suit maker. Zeonic’s development knowhow is incorporated in the machine’s inner construction as well as its outward appearance, giving it the same high operating reliability and ease of production as the Zaku II. Naturally, it can use beam weapons, and it’s the first mass production machine to include a linear seat and panoramic monitor as standard equipment.
The Federation Forces have made a tentative decision to formally adopt this machine, and a test evaluation unit has been assigned to the Titans Test Team to investigate whether it should be adopted by the Titans as well. Its resemblance to the Zaku makes the Hizack unpopular with the Titans, but their need to ensure a sufficient number of mobile suits for their growing organization will ultimately leave them with no alternative.

Anaheim was all over the development of the Hizack.

[Rawinder]

Doesn't the model number alone indicate the Hizack was built by Anaheim?

IIRC, the "10" in -106 refers to Granada as the development/construction site.

[J-Lead]

The Mahq profile seems to give me a completely different interpretation on the matter, but that makes sense. Damn it, AOZ...

Is it a sad day when the Gundam Wikia is more up to speed with this sort of thing than MAHQ.

[domtropen]

Zeonic’s development knowhow is incorporated in the machine’s inner construction as well as its outward appearance, giving it the same high operating reliability and ease of production as the Zaku II.

Another praise to Zaku II reliability that supports some sources but contradicts some older sources.

[mcred23]

Doesn't the model number alone indicate the Hizack was built by Anaheim?

IIRC, the "10" in -106 refers to Granada as the development/construction site.

Yeah, the 10 is for Granada.

Is it a sad day when the Gundam Wikia is more up to speed with this sort of thing than MAHQ.

As Chris often mentions, he can't spend all day working on the site, so minor little things like who exactly developed the Hizack get left out.

[Nowhere Man]

Doesn't the model number alone indicate the Hizack was built by Anaheim?

IIRC, the "10" in -106 refers to Granada as the development/construction site.

Yerp, that too.

Interestingly, reading that profile again, the Earth Federation only "tentatively" commissions the Hizack for service in the beginning. Why the hesitation? Because it was created in part by remnants of the Zeonic Company? Because it was too expensive? Because there was another design being considered over it? Do we even know?

[blind_dead_mcjones]

@ nowhere man

all the factors you mentioned all probably played some part but its most likely to do with the fact that it looks like the Zaku II

using a suit that is reminicient of the main weapon of terror used by the principality of zeon is not good for PR

[Bezerker]

^
I assume that they only used the Hizack out of desperation, its either the Hizack or nothing early on.

[Nowhere Man]

@ nowhere man

all the factors you mentioned all probably played some part but its most likely to do with the fact that it looks like the Zaku II

using a suit that is reminicient of the main weapon of terror used by the principality of zeon is not good for PR

Reading this post, I don't think that's it. The MS-06F2 Zaku II saw heavy use as a training and mock battle Mobile Suit after the OYW. Tons of Earth Federation pilots were trained on these machines and came to prefer their "feel" -- which is why, according to the excerpt from the HG manual found in the aforementioned post, the Hizack and RMS-117 Galbaldy Beta were fielded by the EF.

And Anaheim's no excuse for the latter, because it was produced at Luna II. So obviously the Earth Federation didn't have too many qualms about using machines based on Zeon designs.

Speaking of the Galbaldy Beta... is that it? When was it developed? Could it have been in contention against the Hizack?

[blind_dead_mcjones]

i was referring more to in regards to how the civillian populace would feel about it, not the pilots

[Gelgoog Jager]

Speaking of the Galbaldy Beta... is that it? When was it developed? Could it have been in contention against the Hizack?

I will have to look for the thread later, but recently Mark pointed out the possibility that the paint scheme of the Galbaldy Beta might hint a relation to the Gelgoog Jager, or to be more precise, that the Galbaldy Beta is actually a OYW design that Zeon developed as part of the United Maintenance Plan, different from the Galbaldy Alfa. Of course after the Federation captured it received some modifications, including updates such as a panoramic monitor and linear seat.

[J-Lead]

Since the Gelgoog Jager was brought up alongside the Galbaldy Beta, I might as well ask; Is there any reason the Gelgoog Jager comes standard in red comet colors?

[Bezerker]

Probably the fear aspect of the red color scheme, who would know if Char was piloting that or if it was just some regular unit.

[toysdream]

But they're actually not Char's colors. As much as we tend to assume that anything red is Char-related, his One Year War-era colors were basically crimson and salmon pink. The Gelgoog Jaeger's colors are darker and a bit more purple - the body color is more or less burgundy - which is exactly the same color scheme as the Galbaldy Beta.

As I noted in this thread, Gundam 0080 mecha designer Yutaka Izubuchi says that his Gelgoog Jaeger is meant to resemble the Galbaldy Beta, so the fact that they use the same color scheme is probably no accident.

-- Mark

[blind_dead_mcjones]

on the subject of colour, red is one of those colours that doesn't reflect light very well and tends to disapeer into the background at night. so in space (in theory) and night terrestrial operations a red suit would have a limited degree of optical camoflague