The Official 00 Mecha Thread Mk XVII

[Calubin_175]

Klaus' son and Billy's son fighting along with an organization composed of ex CB members was just briefly mentioned in the epilogue of the novel version of the movie.

[SonicSP]

Klaus' son and Billy's son fighting along with an organization composed of ex CB members was just briefly mentioned in the epilogue of the novel version of the movie.

Did they mention Setsuna though? I remember hearing that but getting a confirmation from you would be nice, in case what I heard was incorrect.

Oh and ex CB members part was interesting. I wonder if there's a hint there that CB got disbanded?

[tehprognoob]

with the plan fulfilled theres no point in cb any more. time to pack up and head to jamaca for retirement.

but this is the mecha thread so we're a tad off course. anyone wonder what sort of air-based MS the HRL uses?tieriens cant be too good in the air.

[Strike Albion]

But this is the mecha thread so we're a tad off course. anyone wonder what sort of air-based MS the HRL uses? Tieriens cant be too good in the air.

Didn't they have an aerial AI-controlled Mobile Armor? I can't remember it's name off the top of my head but I remember a plane-styled MA used by the HRL.

[tehprognoob]

I guess that there are also conventional fighters on every side. Even SEED had 'em, and the opening scenes show a rather 21st Century stealth fighter trailing two Flags.

[PowerdGNFlag]

Didn't they have an aerial AI-controlled Mobile Armor? I can't remember it's name off the top of my head but I remember a plane-styled MA used by the HRL.

Referring to these? (from 00F):
Feimeng
Xiaoshou - this is the AI-controlled MA you're talking about.

Also, you have a limited-flight-enabled MS, the Tieren High-Mobility Type which Sergei used in Season 1 against Exia. Future versions remove the High-Mobility pack in favor of hovering capabilities.

[Arsarcana]

the opening scenes show a rather 21st Century stealth fighter trailing two Flags.

I believe that's supposed to be the carrier Graham operated out of for the first few episodes.

[Dark Duel]

Carrier plane profile (MAHQ)t
the aircraft in question
Judging from its enormous size compared to the Flags closest in front of it(far right and left of the picture), as well as its overall shape, I think it's pretty obvious that it is the same aircraft.

[Dendrobium Stamen]

It seems like the Union and AEU ceased to use conventional fighter aircraft with the successful introduction of their variable MS projects, the Realdo and Hellion respectively. On the other hand, I can't see any mention of HRL aircraft at all on MAHQ - did we see any in-series, apart from the hilariously-inappropriate Tieren Hi-Mo?

[SonicSP]

I think those flying MAs are all they have.

Of course, it could be a simple focusing philosophy. Focusing on the ground units to fights off both aerial(anti air) and ground threats as their main force, with those inferior flying MA if ever for air force if needed. The Tierens do appear to be more better for ground combat than either the latest generation VMS (especially considering it's ten year old model) and even then they possess advantage over them as far as maintenance and logistics are concerned.

Other than that, they have the Tieren All Region Type (aka Tieren Taozi). It was never implemented of course since the coming of GNMS changed everything, but it would have been implemented if things continued normally. Next in line after the Tieren would be the Ahead (which was developed by the HRL, specifically the same team that worked on the All Region Type), which was based off the Tieren All Region Type and the GN-X.

[tehprognoob]

but that doesn't mention the fact that even VMS cannot breach the sound barrier when they are so none-aerodynamic. Conventional fighters will easily out-compete them

[SonicSP]

but that doesn't mention the fact that even VMS cannot breach the sound barrier when they are so none-aerodynamic. Conventional fighters will easily out-compete them

While we don't know the performance of the Flag, it was explained (I can't remember where exactly, I think it's either the HG Flag or one of the Mechanics books. I'll look it up later) that to counter the unaerodynamicness of the Flag, a "sharp" electromagnetic barrier was produced at the front to cut off air resistance. The field is generated by the Flag's linear rifle that is mounted on the front in Fighter Mode.

The real advantage of the Flags is that you can switch them over from aeroplanes to MS for ground fighting so you end up with a force that is variable and can be re-oriented based on the situation or mission. This is what the Union wanted, if they wanted a pure fighter, they would have taken the YMS-02 Union Blast(instead of the YMS-01 Union Flag prototype) which has superior fighter mode than the Flag but has a really terrible MS mode in contrast to the Flag which does both jobs generally well.

But you do have specialized air fighters though in the Union, called the Aero Flags which are Flags that are modified to specialize in air fighting only, very much the opposite of the Shell Flag which is a Flag optimized for ground fighting. Most of the standard Flags we see can do either job fine, but are not specialized in these fields as much as either the Aero or Shell.

And then of course, you have the occasional people like Graham that can use the true potential of the Flags by harnessing both modes as he pleases though these are few and far between since mid-air transofmation is hard to do.(it wasn't even designed for it)

[tehprognoob]

That Blast thing's MS mode looks hot.

[SonicSP]

It is isn't it? From my perspective, the Blast appears to be a well design plane but a terribly designed MS, so in order to ensure that the plane mode functions well, they may have made sure made sure the plane becomes a "good plane" in design so to speak, but this focus on the plane may have caused some problems when you try to implement an MS mode into it, which may explain why the MS mode sucks while the fighter mode is better than the Flag's. The Flag by contrast seems to be more balanced between the two but instead of relying on physical engineering to get the plane working well relies on the EM field to improve it's performance as a plane which in turn means less constraints or bugs in the MS mode. So the EM sharp field may be a gamebreaker IMO.

The above paragraph-analysis is my own opinion though, it's not sourced statement from anywhere or anything so don't take it as a series fact, except for some things I mentioned like the Flag's sharp EM field, the Blast's MS mode lacking in performance. >__>

I wish they made a kit out of it.......

[tehprognoob]

oops i meant MA mode lol
the kit would be purely fighter b/c the ms mode is stupidly thin
and about thin, the tieriens were heavily amored, so could a flag or realdo's little gun actually take one out? i mean, that's some thick armoring...

[Arsarcana]

While the heavier armor has its advantages I'm pretty certain it doesn't make the Tieren invulnerable to the weapons used by ligher MS. If their weapons are a threat to each other the more sophisticated (and similar caliber) linear weapons used by the Union and AEU certainly would be able to harm them. The Tieren can just take a few more hits than its contemporaries and keep on trucking.

[SonicSP]

With the linear rifles being relatively more advance and the Tieren being relatively older, I think they should be a bit vulnerable.

We still don't know how much their relative costs are though. If the Tieren is relatively cheaper to make and maintain, then even if their per unit ability doesn't match the Flag or Enacts, their possibly larger numbers may help things a bit. Of course, the reason why the Tieren is still around is because of it's effectiveness as far as the easeness of maintenance goes and it doesn't appear too bad in performance.

The only known big disadvantage I recall compared to the other two is the fact that they cannot utilize the solar energy from the SES, something that the other two "in design" can. (""= the Flag cannot utlise the function because the Union's SES logistics is more inferior to the AEU's. That and the Union's foreign policy of "liking to intervene in the world" mean a lot of Flags are stationed outside Union territory. In contrast, the AEU's more internal policies see a lot of Enacts be inside AEU borders. Both models can do it just fine in design though)

Of course if your going to be grounded and big, you better well hope your defence ability are better than theirs..................>__>

[Calubin_175]

The Shell Flag was especially designed for anti-Tieren combat as stated in Mechanics 1st. Usually even Flags would need to fight Tieren on a common level or plane to avoid being shot by flak shells I think. Not only that, but as evident in Super Robot War games, accuracy increases if both units are on the same plane.

Despite the Shell flag having lost speed from its jet pack, it is still relatively faster than the Tieren. So more armor and fire power plus relative speed and immune to anti-aircraft strikes would make the Shell Flag formidable against the Tieren.

Of course, such directional specialist machine are built in small numbers and modification are not easy to conduct in off shore territories. I have to a say a normal MS Flag or Realdo would definitley have issues fighting the Tieren on ground due to the lack of fire power and armor. Don't forget ground combat may entail many physical obstacles such as trees and buildings, so speed doesn't really help unless it is an open field.

[reeoyuy]

the Flag cannot utlise the function because the Union's SES logistics is more inferior to the AEU's.

That's interesting. Wasn't in 2037 (Enact's debut) AEU orbital elevator still somewhat "incomplete"? I forgot where I heard that, but I think there's a debate in this thread long time ago about what exactly is "incomplete" (is it the SES as a whole or just the pillar/elevator construction).

That and the Union's foreign policy of "liking to intervene in the world" mean a lot of Flags are stationed outside Union territory. In contrast, the AEU's more internal policies see a lot of Enacts be inside AEU borders. Both models can do it just fine in design though

Reflection of today's US foreign policy, eh? Also, not just for those outside stationed Union territory but there are also Flags that (or planned to) stationed in Japan & Australia; Both are Union territory but faraway from Union's central America OE (closer to HRLS's eastern Papua OE actually).

Energy supply aside, I have one thing in my mind: before the introduction of radar disrupting GN Particles, there's no such thing as Minovsky Particles or N-Jammer to render missiles ineffective. But then all faction seems to prefer unguided weapons than missiles. Today, BVR combat is all the rage, and some air forces began to not training their pilots on how using machine gun in dogfight. But Flags and Enacts seems to rely heavily on their linear rifle. If not for 1/100 OverFlag model, we may not know the existence of leg missile bay. I find it odd that Aero Flag, designed for air superiority role replaces the hand with linear rifle instead of missile bays for AAM missiles. I'm not saying that they neglected missile entirely (we saw them using it few times, like when Ali blew up SES receiver on Azadistan) but strange how the trend is different from what we think of future warfare.

[Meteoid]

Rule of cool. Showing Flags fighting with rifles at close range makes good TV. Even though I did wonder why nobody ever thought to fit the Enact and the Flag with wing hardpoints for missiles like real fighter planes.

Although for an in-universe explanation it's possible that they simply fit whatever equipment is required for the job at hand, I don't know how effective missiles would be against Gundams due to the radar jamming effects of GN particles and it's unclear if they create a lot of heat like a standard engine would.

Then again they were shown to be using missiles in the Taklamakan operation, possibly because they were just showering the Gundams with missiles to keep them in one place, aim wasn't really an issue.