Artificial Blood

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AnimeMun
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Artificial Blood

Post by AnimeMun » Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:26 am

Alright, I don't know how everyone here will think about this but I'm wanting to go a little Metal Gear for a bit.

To start off I read up recently on how a certain political figure (not naming names for obvious reasons) is now having an artificial heart installed. So to get it out of the way, yes he is going to technically be a cyborg, whoopty doo.

What I'm wondering is first, how does artificial blood work differently from standard blood? Next what types are there? Another thing is how would artificial blood work with artificial body parts such as hearts, limbs, and other organs? Finally, what reasons could it be used OUTSIDE of a human body?

I know this borders a very fine line onto several topics but I guess this would be a proper curiousity.
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Re: Artificial Blood

Post by His Divine Shadow » Mon Jul 19, 2010 12:17 pm

And what, pray tell, does having an artificial heart have to do with artificial blood? :?
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Re: Artificial Blood

Post by AnimeMun » Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:20 pm

Well it would be the next state of progression from limbs>organs>bodily fluids. I figure the use of artificial blood would make such artificial organs LIKE a heart run more smoothly in conjunction with all the other artificial organs.

EDIT: Not to mention the fact that such an organ being in use currently means that for this discussion we can apply some real world knowledge to this more consistently.
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Re: Artificial Blood

Post by Dendrobium Stamen » Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:28 pm

An artificial heart doesn't require artificial blood in order to function: it's just a mechanical device for doing the same job as its organic equivalent. At the minute, there seem to be a few projects working on artificial blood, some of which are listed here, but for the most part blood is proving tricky to replace as far as the science of 2010 is concerned.

There are a few examples of artificial blood in fiction, of course, the one coming to my mind right now being Raiden in Metal Gear Solid 2 (and again in 4, probably Rising too), whose blood is replaced by a white substitute which is apparently superior to natural blood. But for now, no dice, sadly. Lucky too, or artificial hearts would be a dead-end as well :P
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Re: Artificial Blood

Post by blind_dead_mcjones » Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:29 pm

as far as i can tell absolutely nothing. and artifical hearts are nothing new, they've been kicking about for the last 10-20 years

anyway the idea behind artifical blood in reality is to supplement a persons existing blood supply when they are in need of a blood transfusion (i.e: they've had a nasty accident and lost half their blood supply), the advantages being no mucking about with blood types and the issue to storage given the rather short shelf life of blood when outside of the human body

for a more detailed explanation: http://health.howstuffworks.com/medicin ... -blood.htm
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Re: Artificial Blood

Post by AnimeMun » Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:42 pm

Alright, how about for artificial lifeforms such as androids? Would we use artificial blood and organs as a way of creating a more complex cooling system or something like that?
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Re: Artificial Blood

Post by Dendrobium Stamen » Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:51 pm

Well, for an android a blood supply isn't strictly necessary - liquid cooling would likely have some benefits compared to air-cooling or radiators, certainly, but it wouldn't have to function in the same way as blood, so you could be quite flexible on the chemical composition of the substance.

The link in my previous post explains the issues with artificial blood in modern science, and if you're designing it as part of an android you can also engineer the android's internals around those constraints, so the issues with artificial blood cease to be relevant in that instance.
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Re: Artificial Blood

Post by AnimeMun » Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:05 pm

Dendrobium Stamen wrote:Well, for an android a blood supply isn't strictly necessary - liquid cooling would likely have some benefits compared to air-cooling or radiators, certainly, but it wouldn't have to function in the same way as blood, so you could be quite flexible on the chemical composition of the substance.

The link in my previous post explains the issues with artificial blood in modern science, and if you're designing it as part of an android you can also engineer the android's internals around those constraints, so the issues with artificial blood cease to be relevant in that instance.
Perhaps, but think of it in this way if you will. Most of the time Androids are going to function as assistants to others, say a terrible accident happens and emergency care is needed. Of course this function will be programmed into the android and said android will perform emergency care in absence of a paramedic team until they arrive. If the android senses that the loss of blood and blood pressure is very dire then it would help if said android had carrying in it the artificial blood and a self transfusion machine to transfer the artificial blood immediately to the unfortunate victim. What better way to ensure quick transfusion than to have it already circulating?
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Re: Artificial Blood

Post by blind_dead_mcjones » Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:37 pm

AnimeMun wrote: Perhaps, but think of it in this way if you will. Most of the time Androids are going to function as assistants to others, say a terrible accident happens and emergency care is needed. Of course this function will be programmed into the android and said android will perform emergency care in absence of a paramedic team until they arrive. If the android senses that the loss of blood and blood pressure is very dire then it would help if said android had carrying in it the artificial blood and a self transfusion machine to transfer the artificial blood immediately to the unfortunate victim. What better way to ensure quick transfusion than to have it already circulating?
because the transfusion machine already gets the blood moving making the need to circulate it throught a complicated system of artifical veins and tubes inside said android before it even reaches the patient both redundant and dangerously time consuming, there are also the issues of sterility, and the fact that is more efficent to just connect the blood pack to the transfusion machine and then run an IV line from the machine to the patient.
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Re: Artificial Blood

Post by AnimeMun » Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:59 pm

Sure, an ambulance probably has transfusion equipment in it but what if the necessity for a transfusion is so dire and an android is there? Wouldn't it be sensible to give the android the capacity to act in this regard until the necessary help arrives? I'll give you the whole "no need for an artificial cirulatory system in an android". But there is no reason to not give an android a sterile built in compartment to contain the transfusion and other first aid care supplies for use until proper help arrives. The chest can contain an efficient power system, the head probably will contain the motherboard, "eyes" and processing and memory, but there is no real need for the stomach area for anything other than storage if you use the space granted efficiently enough. This is giving that the android is a standard human size and shape. So why not put a miniaturized transfusion set up in the torso for such an emergency?
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Re: Artificial Blood

Post by Geoxile » Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:04 pm

That situation is ridiculous. We create things for practicality, an android carrying blood for transfusion would only be seen in the medical field, as equipment more than anything. There is absolutely no reason to give every or any android that isn't designed for medical work the ability to perform a transfusion and carry artificial blood. You won't see some random android with artificial blood walking around for just an occasion. At least stay on topic, you stopped discussing the realistic feasibility of having such a machine.

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Re: Artificial Blood

Post by blind_dead_mcjones » Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:00 am

besides if you could get a blood tansfusion machine small enough to fit inside a human sized android and still have room for blood packs, why bother with the android in the first place when it would be more practical and efficient to load them onto a paramedic bike, which would be able to get to the scene much quicker then said android could, as well as having the extra equipment on board to stabilise the patient (antibiotics, splints and bandages, etc)
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Re: Artificial Blood

Post by AnimeMun » Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:59 am

The only reason I suggested they be able to install them in an android in the first place is for the fact that one of the major selling reasons for said androids would be as either personal assistants for high level corporate executives or as nurses for the elderly. Both who would want them programmed for emergency medical care in the first place. Sure, if miniaturization went that far it would be very easy to put it on paramedic vehicles. However those would be the main markets for androids in the first place. Thats why I thought it would be a sensible option for an android to have that capacity. I know most androids wouldn't be on the scene in time. But I'd rather have an android who would give that assistance to anyone they come across as opposed to an android who would just ignore the plight of a human just because it would ignore their routine. Don't even get me started on how it would be sensible for the next demographic who'd be hiring more androids, because having that capacity in either a government facility or an amusement part makes just as much sense to me at least. Of course this would be primarily stabilizing care.

But you are right Geo, this has digressed way too far from the initial subject. Lets get back to the blood itself. What other qualities have we not approached yet?
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