Lasers in Gundam

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LtFrankie
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Lasers in Gundam

Post by LtFrankie » Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:55 am

So...how are they effected by minovsky particles?

I'm pretty sure there's laser small arms and laser communications, so the idea of laser guided weapons can't be out of the question

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Re: Lasers in Gundam

Post by Garuda128 » Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:34 am

The main use of the Minovsky particle was in combat and communication. When the Minovsky particle is spread in large numbers in the open air or in open space, the particles disrupt low-frequency electromagnetic radiation, such as microwaves and radio waves. The Minovsky particle also interferes with the operations of electronic circuitry and destroys unprotected circuits due to the particles' high electrical charge which act like a continuous electromagnetic pulse on metal objects. Because of the way Minovsky particles react with other types of radiation, radar systems and long-range wireless communication systems become useless, infra-red signals are defracted and their accuracy decreases, and visible light is fogged. This became known as the "Minovsky Effect".

Ahhh, wikipedia. What can't you do?*


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P.S. The only counter measure to the "M" particle in the series was to install bulky and expensive shielding on all electronic equipment, but only to counteract the effect it had on electronic circuitry. While this could be done for space ships and naval ships, this ruled out the use of precision guided weapons, such as guided missiles.

EDIT: Please use the Edit button instead of double-posting.

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Re: Lasers in Gundam

Post by Izayuukan » Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:11 am

Didn't early Mobile Suits in UC have anti-laser coatings on their shields? Which would indicate that either they expected to be fighting a lot of battleships, or that the other fighters/tanks/MS they were fighting had laser-based weaponry.

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Re: Lasers in Gundam

Post by Majin Tenshi » Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:35 am

I remember mention of that in UC. I've sort of assumed that lasers could be effective but the coating wasn't hard to apply. So everyone just applied the coating, making lasers near useless, so no one deployed laser weaponry. If one side started to skimp, then the other would just laser them to death.

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Re: Lasers in Gundam

Post by krullnar » Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:59 am

Well i know its just one instance but 08th ms team the gm sniper uses what appears to be a laser against the transport in the second to last ep.
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Re: Lasers in Gundam

Post by Nowhere Man » Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:20 am

Izayuukan wrote:Didn't early Mobile Suits in UC have anti-laser coatings on their shields? Which would indicate that either they expected to be fighting a lot of battleships, or that the other fighters/tanks/MS they were fighting had laser-based weaponry.
Eh? I don't remember ever having heard that being the case. Mega Particle Cannons were four times more energy efficient than lasers, and were still supremely effective. In fact, by the opening shots of the OYW, Mega Particle Cannons were equipped on all major warships of both sides (IIRC). No point in also having laser cannons to further drain your power when you have more energy efficient, neutral particle beam-firing gun turrets on just about every heavy hitter. Ergo, no real reason to slather your Mobile Suits in "anti-laser coating."
krullnar wrote:Well i know its just one instance but 08th ms team the gm sniper uses what appears to be a laser against the transport in the second to last ep.
Nope, 90% sure that Beam Rifle utilizes mega particles as well. It was just so powerful that it required its own supplemental reactor and cooling systems to operate -- power that manifests itself in a huge sustained stream of mega particles. I like to think of it as the "fire hose" as compared to your average "super soaker" Beam Rifle.
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Re: Lasers in Gundam

Post by toysdream » Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:24 am

LtFrankie wrote:So...how are they effected by minovsky particles?
The simple answer is that they aren't. :-)

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Re: Lasers in Gundam

Post by Garuda128 » Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:06 am

@toysdream

Yes they are. Didn't you see my post? the minovsky paritcles have high negative and positive charges that interfere with metals and destroy small circuits an other stuff. Look at my first post. That wil explain it.
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Re: Lasers in Gundam

Post by toysdream » Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:26 am

Garuda128 wrote:Yes they are. Didn't you see my post? the minovsky paritcles have high negative and positive charges that interfere with metals and destroy small circuits an other stuff. Look at my first post. That wil explain it.
None of the text you copied and pasted from Wikipedia discusses their effect on lasers, which is what the original post was asking about. That's because they don't have any effect on lasers, and lasers are used all the time in Gundam for communications and whatnot.

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Re: Lasers in Gundam

Post by Kuruni » Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:15 am

Laser are there. Ship like Albion use it instead of vulcan-like CIWS. Also Anaheim Electronic did some experiment by install laser gun on Hyakushiki Kai but there is no further development.
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Re: Lasers in Gundam

Post by Nowhere Man » Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:38 pm

Kuruni wrote:Laser are there. Ship like Albion use it instead of vulcan-like CIWS.
Oh, never realized that! Any other ships use lasers in a similar manner?
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Re: Lasers in Gundam

Post by Wingnut » Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:58 pm

Nowhere Man wrote:
Kuruni wrote:Laser are there. Ship like Albion use it instead of vulcan-like CIWS.
Oh, never realized that! Any other ships use lasers in a similar manner?
The Magellan and Salamis class refits in 0083 also used the same type of CIWS system as the Albion.
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Re: Lasers in Gundam

Post by Nowhere Man » Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:50 pm

Wingnut wrote:The Magellan and Salamis class refits in 0083 also used the same type of CIWS system as the Albion.
Huh... so what happened to these systems by the time of the Gryps Conflict? Or is this another case of "0083 Continuity Syndrome"? :roll:

Actually, looking through MAHQ's profiles for Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam and beyond, ships like the Salamis Kai-class and the Alexandria-class have many labels marked only "secondary gun." Maybe it's possible (though I doubt it) that some of these were laser-defense turrets?
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Re: Lasers in Gundam

Post by Dark Duel » Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:11 pm

GundamOfficial identifies the Anti-Ship Beam Swords of both the Sword Strike and the Sword Impulse as laser swords. Likewise the hip-mounted sword of the CGUE DEEP-Arms, per MAHQ, is a laser sword.
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Re: Lasers in Gundam

Post by Nowhere Man » Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:26 pm

Dark Duel wrote:GundamOfficial identifies the Anti-Ship Beam Swords of both the Sword Strike and the Sword Impulse as laser swords. Likewise the hip-mounted sword of the CGUE DEEP-Arms, per MAHQ, is a laser sword.
That's well and good, but this topic is regarding UC Gundam. :wink:
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Re: Lasers in Gundam

Post by Dendrobium Stamen » Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:12 pm

Nowhere Man wrote:Huh... so what happened to these systems by the time of the Gryps Conflict? Or is this another case of "0083 Continuity Syndrome"? :roll:

Actually, looking through MAHQ's profiles for Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam and beyond, ships like the Salamis Kai-class and the Alexandria-class have many labels marked only "secondary gun." Maybe it's possible (though I doubt it) that some of these were laser-defense turrets?
As I understand it, the "secondary gun" turrets fitted to pretty much every ship from UC 0087 onwards is in fact a low-powered beam cannon, designed for anti-MS use.

Having accepted (in a remarkable act of foresight) that the speed and armour post-0083 MS would be packing would make bullet-spraying CIWS guns fairly ineffective, and with lasers apparently toyed with but abandoned as a technological dead end - power consumption again, perhaps - the Federation seems to have adopted comparatively small beam cannons as their ships' defence against hostile mobile suits.

The logic, it seems, being that such a weapon would trade a high rate-of-fire with lesser effectiveness per hit for one with a slow firing rate, but a probable one-shot kill. How effective it was I can't recall off-hand, but probably on the lower end of the spectrum, given that the point-defence guns seen on the Ra Cailum and Clop types seem to revert to "spray and pray" shell-firing weapons, which looks like a step backwards but in practice doesn't seem to be given how well they could chew through a Geara Doga - and no doubt make Swiss cheese of a Jegan.
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Re: Lasers in Gundam

Post by Garuda128 » Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:32 pm

toysdream wrote:
Garuda128 wrote:Yes they are. Didn't you see my post? the minovsky paritcles have high negative and positive charges that interfere with metals and destroy small circuits an other stuff. Look at my first post. That wil explain it.
None of the text you copied and pasted from Wikipedia discusses their effect on lasers, which is what the original post was asking about. That's because they don't have any effect on lasers, and lasers are used all the time in Gundam for communications and whatnot.

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The lasers you're talking about ar infra-red, right? Because when minovsky particles are used, "infra-red signals are defracted and their accuracy decreases, and visible light is fogged", therefore lasers CAN'T BE USED!!! Beam weapons are different because they work by the degration of minovsky particles, and aren't actual lasers. During Gundam 0079, the White Base is being pursued by Zeon while earth (before getting to Jaburo) at one point the White Base can't make contact with ant Federation bases because of the minovsky particles.
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Re: Lasers in Gundam

Post by His Divine Shadow » Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:44 pm

Garuda128 wrote:
toysdream wrote:
Garuda128 wrote:Yes they are. Didn't you see my post? the minovsky paritcles have high negative and positive charges that interfere with metals and destroy small circuits an other stuff. Look at my first post. That wil explain it.
None of the text you copied and pasted from Wikipedia discusses their effect on lasers, which is what the original post was asking about. That's because they don't have any effect on lasers, and lasers are used all the time in Gundam for communications and whatnot.

-- Mark
The lasers you're talking about ar infra-red, right? Because when minovsky particles are used, "infra-red signals are defracted and their accuracy decreases, and visible light is fogged", therefore lasers CAN'T BE USED!!! Beam weapons are different because they work by the degration of minovsky particles, and aren't actual lasers
The specific type of laser used for laser comms and rangefinding in UC isn't specified to my recollection, but it could be just as easily a UV laser or X-ray laser. Minovsky particles primarily affect low-frequency transmissions, whereas a laser can be using a frequency ranging the entire spectrum of wavelengths. A free electron laser would be tunable beyond the wavelengths Minovsky rads would drastically impact.
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Re: Lasers in Gundam

Post by Garuda128 » Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:07 pm

But we don't know if it's x-ray of UV lasers. Most of the militaries of the world use infra-red lasers for communication and weapons guidance and what not. So it would be most likely for the militaries in the UC to use IR beams. In fact, I know for a fact that the White Base uses laser-based communitaction devices because they could barely contact Federation bases when they were on earth and being pursued by Zeon becuase of the minovsky particles. I don't know the exact episode(s) but I know its in there
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Setsuna f Seiei: pilot of GN-001 Gundam Exia, world's first Pure Innovator, and voiced by Brad Swaile
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Re: Lasers in Gundam

Post by His Divine Shadow » Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:54 pm

Garuda128 wrote:But we don't know if it's x-ray of UV lasers. Most of the militaries of the world use infra-red lasers for communication and weapons guidance and what not. So it would be most likely for the militaries in the UC to use IR beams. In fact, I know for a fact that the White Base uses laser-based communitaction devices because they could barely contact Federation bases when they were on earth and being pursued by Zeon becuase of the minovsky particles. I don't know the exact episode(s) but I know its in there
The Minovsky particle's effects were discovered in 0065. That's plenty of time for the Federation and everyone else to figure out that IR lasers weren't going to get the job done anymore. No one's disputing that laser comms are used in the age of the Minovsky particle, we're just disputing that the respective powers of the time are dumb enough to be using a type of laser that the most prevalent battlefield effect of their age renders ineffective. Logic suggests the lasers used are NOT IR.
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