The Official 00 Mecha Thread Mk XVI

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Re: The Official 00 Mecha Thread Mk XVI

SonicSP wrote:Correspondence [or Support] for Diverse Missions

This machine which was developed in the secret Lagrange 3 factory, is set out to missions which the Gundam can not deal with. For that reason, it is loaded with a great variety of optional equipment, and experimental systems. There was no chance to use this machine for actual combat, but there is a multi-purpose GN Condenser in the hatch at the rear of the nose, and it is possible for it to provide particles to other machines. Furthermore, the hatch can also be used for maintenance: It has a monitor inside that shows the current status of the machine. [/i]
That's.... weird. Especially for a unit that uses a Drive Condenser as you put it as it's own power supply. Not to mention the fact that it's useless if the thing is being used on the 00 Gundam. You'd need a second 0 Riser for that task. And the Seravee isn't a good example as it and the Seraphim are never apart for any real length of time that the former would run out of particles before the Seraphim got back. I'd suspect that it can even run the Trial field while docked and that the Seraphim only left the Seravee part of the Gundam because it was missing both of its arms. The SEMs are a valid example though as they would operate away from the Seravee for some time. Although even that is debatable given the way the Ptolemy tended to deploy their Gundams together as opposed to the solo missions of season 1.

It's all MSV overspec, to use a term of my own, that doesn't provide a big enough boost in capability for the effort involved which is likely why CB never deployed the SEMs in the first place.
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Re: The Official 00 Mecha Thread Mk XVI

Could someone please summarize GN particles and why they are the way they are and why they do what they do?
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Re: The Official 00 Mecha Thread Mk XVI

MBF-06/ZGMF-X12A Arbiter wrote:Could someone please summarize GN particles and why they are the way they are and why they do what they do?
http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/GN_Particles
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Re: The Official 00 Mecha Thread Mk XVI

LOL, I forgot abut the Gundam wiki. Thanks man.
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Re: The Official 00 Mecha Thread Mk XVI

SonicSP wrote:Correspondence [or Support] for Diverse Missions

This machine which was developed in the secret Lagrange 3 factory, is set out to missions which the Gundam can not deal with. For that reason, it is loaded with a great variety of optional equipment, and experimental systems. There was no chance to use this machine for actual combat, but there is a multi-purpose GN Condenser in the hatch at the rear of the nose, and it is possible for it to provide particles to other machines. Furthermore, the hatch can also be used for maintenance: It has a monitor inside that shows the current status of the machine. [/i]
That's.... weird. Especially for a unit that uses a Drive Condenser as you put it as it's own power supply. Not to mention the fact that it's useless if the thing is being used on the 00 Gundam. You'd need a second 0 Riser for that task. And the Seravee isn't a good example as it and the Seraphim are never apart for any real length of time that the former would run out of particles before the Seraphim got back. I'd suspect that it can even run the Trial field while docked and that the Seraphim only left the Seravee part of the Gundam because it was missing both of its arms. The SEMs are a valid example though as they would operate away from the Seravee for some time. Although even that is debatable given the way the Ptolemy tended to deploy their Gundams together as opposed to the solo missions of season 1.

It's all MSV overspec, to use a term of my own, that doesn't provide a big enough boost in capability for the effort involved which is likely why CB never deployed the SEMs in the first place.

well maybe it is overspec, but i remember reading that CB once tried to mass produce some MS or at least to have some plans...... mabye all that tech was ment for that.... the 0 raiser being a testbed for refueling non GN drive MS.... and such.
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Re: The Official 00 Mecha Thread Mk XVI

MBF-06/ZGMF-X12A Arbiter wrote:Could someone please summarize GN particles and why they are the way they are and why they do what they do?
In essence, its an unspecified type of exotic particle. The manuals such as the PG 00 and MG Exia classify it as a photon of some sort and keep using the word to describe it.

In the Original Drives/Solar Furnaces, the GN Particles are a byproduct of the energy generation process. The Original Drives rely on an unspecified topological defect [some fans theorise a magnetic monopole] in order to generate energy and GN Particles from byronic matter.

The Imitation solar furnaces aka GN Drive Taus are similar to Original GN Drives, except they lack a special core known as the "TD Blanket" and this special core is what makes Original Drives hard to make. It requires an enviroument with immensly powerful gravity in order to be made, in this case Jupiter was chosen. Its also this componant that allows the original Drive their semi perpetual functioning nature.

Anyways, first off the differences between Original and Tau Particles. There's essentially very little difference between them actually on the basic level and the particles produced by both Drive types are eseentially the same for the most part. However, each Drive type have their particles set to a certain wavelength to suit certain needs.

In the case of S1 Tau Drives, their wavelengths of the particles produced are adjusted for maximum beam potency. The reason this was done was because of the lower relative output of the S1 Tau Drive compared to Originals. By increasing the general beam potency of the particles, it improves the overall particles economics needed to produce a reasonable beam power [S1 Tau MS cannot afford to spend as much particles on beams due to the lower average output of the Drive Tau]. However a sideeffect of this beam potency is that the particles become poisonous in high compression beam form. [although their harmless in emission form]

In S2 however, the Tau Drives have been improved and the poisonous effect is gone evn in beam emission form although they have not specified what was specifically done in order to improve it. [although we do know that the S2 Tau Drives have higher average output]

-----------
Just thought it deserved a special mention:

GN Condensers- GN Condensers are essentially devices used to store GN Particles. Almost all GNMS save the earliest ones possess GN Condensers on them. They are important because the GN Drive only has a certain output rate at a certain time, and as such if the GNMS wants to draw more power or alot of power, it can draw them from the GN Condensers which accumulates the particles produced by the Drive when its not being used. Certain suits that has a high particle consumption like Virtue and Gadessa relies on their GN Condensers alot to draw their power from and are more vulnerable once their Condensers are depleted or are low. [00 is an exception to this due to its extremely high GN Particle output of the Twin Drive System]


-------------------------------------

Anyways, next up the uses of the GN Particles, I'll try and list what I remember:

-Radar and communication jamming. Not sure what communication types fall under it because some do not.

-Weight Reduction. They can easily reduce the effect of gravity on mass.

-Forms a physical barrier when compressed. GN Field makes use of this.

-Beam weapons. Essentially compressed and accelerates particles to do kinetic damage.

-Thruster propellant.

-Can be used to strengthed armors and physical weapons. Solid blades works by applying a GN Field over the solid sword, and this greatly increases the sharpness and cutting ability of the sword.

-The green blades is a new technology of GN Swords. It works by converting GN Particles into extreme heat, and this heat when radiated by the green edge can melt armor and material when it comes near the green edge, making it easier for the sword to cut through and greatly increasing overall damage.

-Laser weapons, less common than beam weapons. Has not been explained in details but presumably works by using heat damage to commit damage. [as opposed to kinetic energy for beam]. Only confirmed GN Lasers are the ones on te Celestial Being mothership and the anti personal vulcans on the Masurao's head. [the laser in Memento Mori and other Federation ship are conventional non GN Laser]

-Quantisation/Teleportation in 00 Raiser

-Healing; used in medical labs and also occured with Trans-Am Burst's emission.

-Telepathy communications as Trans-Am Raiser occasionally initiates.

-Quite possibly used to manipulate light effect of invisibility. Have not seen any explanations of the invisibility myself but I'm assuming its GN Particles technology.





Trans-Am

Trans-Am the GN Particles are "accelerated" [that's what Senki 4 said anyways] to a special more powerful state. Inside the MS, all the compressed GN Particles in the GN Condensers are released in a large burst in this mode, greatly increasing the power of the MS. [GN Drives also possess the ability to produce three times the particles production output in this state]

The GN Particles in Trans-Am is real cause of Innovation [most of us used to think its the Twin Drive before Senki 4 told us]. Although it can be deduced that the extremely large output of the Twin Drive would have greatly contributed to Setsuna's fast Innovation due to the large volume of Trans-Am state GN Particles in Trans-Am Mode. [since he spends the most time inside 00 during Trans-Am]
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Re: The Official 00 Mecha Thread Mk XVI

Hmmmm, I figured Innovation had to do with GN Particles but I never would have guessed that Trans-Am state would be involved. So this means that Trans-Am was part of the plan all along. Could this mean that Setsuna's new Overdrive mode is gonna turn the whole Ptolemy crew into Innovators during the movie? Or could Descartes Shaman have been there during the Trans-Am Burst and that was the cause of his Innovation? Another thought is actually Allelujah and Marie, how would Innovation affect them as they are both dual personality Super-Soldiers? Can they be Innovated even?

Mod Edit (Red): Please don't quote the entire previous post if it's long and you're just responding to it generally.
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Re: The Official 00 Mecha Thread Mk XVI

Allelujah and Marie also use Quantum Brain Waves, like Innovators and Innovades. As far as I can tell from Season One, HRL super soldiers have enhanced glial cells, and we don't know exactly what GN Particles actually do/change to innovate a person. Is there a connection there?

There's also something about Setsuna's "exposure to GN particles" that kinda bugs me. So he was exposed, and thus, he's a Newtype now. Okay. But how was he exposed if he was in the cockpit the whole time? I mean, the Gundam cockpits are air-tight, obviously, but two GN Drives attached to the outside of the machine mutated his brain, which is protected by a helmet, perfect anime hair, and a skull? I get something like Louise being poisoned by the GN[T] particles, but Setsuna sitting suited-up and safe in his cockpit? Ian Vashti was probably more directly exposed to GN Particles than Setsuna. I don't really get it.

Okay, I'm done nit-picking details from a Japanese show about giant space robots. I'm re-watching it from the beginning, so I might have more "Fridge Logic"/"Waitaminute" questions.
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Re: The Official 00 Mecha Thread Mk XVI

Shores wrote:There's also something about Setsuna's "exposure to GN particles" that kinda bugs me. So he was exposed, and thus, he's a Newtype now. Okay. But how was he exposed if he was in the cockpit the whole time? I mean, the Gundam cockpits are air-tight, obviously, but two GN Drives attached to the outside of the machine mutated his brain, which is protected by a helmet, perfect anime hair, and a skull? I get something like Louise being poisoned by the GN[T] particles, but Setsuna sitting suited-up and safe in his cockpit? Ian Vashti was probably more directly exposed to GN Particles than Setsuna. I don't really get it.
"Newtype" is a term for the UC-continuity. Setsuna is an "Innovator".

As to how? Blame the Twin-Drive system and the Raiser system which helped regulate it.
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Re: The Official 00 Mecha Thread Mk XVI

Yeah, when the twin drive goes Trans-Am, the particles have a way of going through solid matter for some reason.
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Re: The Official 00 Mecha Thread Mk XVI

Wingnut wrote:Yeah, when the twin drive goes Trans-Am, the particles have a way of going through solid matter for some reason.
Particle weapons can, yeah. I even understand that, too. But I don't why they're just... there. And if the GN Particles could do that all along, did it really just come down to who got the Twin Drive System as to who'd innovate? Did anyone know this? If they did- if Tieria did, anyway, and he knew that he couldn't really innovate -then it makes sense to give it to Setsuna (I guess?). If not, then why did the replacement for Exia, a machine that primarily uses rifle and solid-blade weapons, need all those extra particles? Having two drives would make Cheridum or Arios or Seravee insanely powerful, and they didn't even know if Setsuna was alive. Basically, unless they knew that Setsuna would come back, Tieria couldn't innovate, particles would get through to the cockpit, and they'd be enough to cause the innovation, then this whole thing is a huge coincidence, and a weird one, at that.

And I could just accept all that if someone could explain to me how the particles got in and changed Setsuna. The other stuff will probably be explained in the movie or mangas. Or it'll just keep bugging me. Either way.
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Re: The Official 00 Mecha Thread Mk XVI

They didn't even know about the Innovators or the concept of Innovation that Aeolia had theorized. Tieria was only testing to see if the system would work at that point. Not to mention that they probably had no idea the effects of Trans-Am GN Particles on the human body and didn't consider them or their particular flavor of GN Particles as harmful either. Therefore, why make it to where said particles can't go through your cockpit and pilot suit, there is also the consideration that actual connection between the two drives and therefore the physical connection of the TDS itself was right behind Setsuna's head the whole time. Also from what we have seen in S1 we know that there is a connection port on the pilot suit itself that connects the suit into the seat which is probably set to be able to connect him with a larger oxygen supply because even if he is in a pilot suit its on board oxygen scrubbers and air tank can only work for so long. I have no doubt here that with this aspect he probably got some Trans-Am particles into his oxygen supply considering the where said tank would have to be located, right next to the TDS.
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Re: The Official 00 Mecha Thread Mk XVI

CB didn't really have a choice in the 'GN Particles in their emission state pass through matter' thing since they were building everything according to The Plan, which required that the particles do so because the point of the plan was to produce Innovators. That and the current CB didn't build the GN Drives and didn't have much say in how they or the particles they produced operated.
Shores wrote:And if the GN Particles could do that all along, did it really just come down to who got the Twin Drive System as to who'd innovate?
It's a question of exposure amount so... yeah. The person with the most exposure to the TDS would naturally Innovate first since the thing kicks out way more particles than a single-Drive suit.
Did anyone know this? If they did- if Tieria did, anyway, and he knew that he couldn't really innovate -then it makes sense to give it to Setsuna (I guess?).
Tieria didn't know until he became one with Veda. Before that point he was clearly unaware of certain aspects of The Plan. Trans Am was as much of a surprise to him as anyone else. So was the very appearance of others like him and Regene's comments about The Plan. Whatever he knew at the beginning that everyone else didn't, Innovation doesn't seem to have been a part of it.
If not, then why did the replacement for Exia, a machine that primarily uses rifle and solid-blade weapons, need all those extra particles?
Two words: Raiser Sword. Also, all those extra particles allow 00 to have an impressive all-round performance (missiles and beam cannons for range, GN Field for defense) on top of even better melee abilities.
Basically, unless they knew that Setsuna would come back, Tieria couldn't innovate, particles would get through to the cockpit, and they'd be enough to cause the innovation, then this whole thing is a huge coincidence, and a weird one, at that.
Setsuna said it himself: If he died, someone else would take his place. If he hadn't returned, CB would have found a new Meister for 00 (not Tieria since he already had a suit designed for his fighting style and role in the organization) and that person would have become the first Innovator.
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Re: The Official 00 Mecha Thread Mk XVI

Shores wrote:
Wingnut wrote:Yeah, when the twin drive goes Trans-Am, the particles have a way of going through solid matter for some reason.
Particle weapons can, yeah. I even understand that, too. But I don't why they're just... there. And if the GN Particles could do that all along, did it really just come down to who got the Twin Drive System as to who'd innovate? Did anyone know this? If they did- if Tieria did, anyway, and he knew that he couldn't really innovate -then it makes sense to give it to Setsuna (I guess?). If not, then why did the replacement for Exia, a machine that primarily uses rifle and solid-blade weapons, need all those extra particles? Having two drives would make Cheridum or Arios or Seravee insanely powerful, and they didn't even know if Setsuna was alive. Basically, unless they knew that Setsuna would come back, Tieria couldn't innovate, particles would get through to the cockpit, and they'd be enough to cause the innovation, then this whole thing is a huge coincidence, and a weird one, at that.

And I could just accept all that if someone could explain to me how the particles got in and changed Setsuna. The other stuff will probably be explained in the movie or mangas. Or it'll just keep bugging me. Either way.
Anything can become powerful with a Twin Drive, it is unknown the exact reason why they chose Exia as the base, though it should be noted that Exia itself has general purpose roots in Astraea [who does posses the most powerful beam weapon among the 2nd Gen; the GN Launcher. 1/100 Astraea manual even mentions that the GN Bazooka of Virtue was developed from it], so its not like the Exia Lineage have not done it before, except now its integrated into a combination Solid Sword-Beam Rifle/Launcher-Beam Saber weapon.

Besides, the Seven Swords equipment [designed to be used with a fully working Twin Drive......which they did not succeed without the 0 Raiser equipment] appears to look like it would consume large amounts of particles anyways. Equipment like the GN Sword II Long [who has a more powerful beam rifle than the normal II] and the GN Buster Sword II is also large and powerful and can act as a remote GN Field emitter; the profile says that it can even be used to generate a remote GN Field for protecting allies as well.

So its not like they just wanted to use a basic Exia with a large Twin Drive not doing anything. They had plans to improve its abilities far beyond the basic single Drive normal Exia-type. Even 00's powerful basic beam weapons are very very very strong compared to Cherudim or Arios [Exia's was just an ordinary short to mid range semi automatic weapon without the specialization that Dynames or Kyrios had in theirs], so even though 00 was made from the Exia archetype it had additions that a Generation 3.5 Exia successor would not otherwise be able to achieve otherwise without a Twin Drive, not at the level 00 has been able to do it.

00 is not just the sole 4th Generation Gundam because of the Twin Drive, the frame itself is more powerful and advanced than the others; although without the Twin Drive, its incredibly hard to get it working anywhere close to optimum as the non Twin Drive 00 Repair shows so the Twin Drive is still a super important aspect of it in terms of being powerplant.

There is another good stat of the Exia as well: Mobility. According to MG Exia manual, due to its close combat nature the Exia was made to possess one of the best mobility among the Gundams. In order to achieve this, they needed to make Exia possess greater humanoid articulation to help improve its AMBAC. However, in order to achieve a much better humanoid articulation, armor needs to be sacrificed at certain parts of the body such as joint exposing it to the internal frame; reducing overall defense. As a result of this mobility specialization, Exia possesses the lowest "being hit" rate of all the Gundams. [considering this is MG Exia, its probably comparing it to CB's 3rd Generation Gundams]

Looking at 00 itself, you can tell that it follows the same concept. 00 has much more exposed parts than even the Exia [or even the other Generation 3 and Generation 3.5 for that matter] and this is presumably done in the same spirit. The addition of the 0 Raiser would probably improve this even further, since you now have extra directional thrusters that can actively change the direction to improve the AMBAC further. Not to mention the powerful beam ability of the 00's weapons and the large melee options combination available to it [with the GN Sword IIs].

It certainly was not a bad choice, considering that statwise 00 Raiser seems to excel at all stats from speed, mobility, beam power, long range, short range, etc. It just seems like the Exia lineage and data is just a base for the large improvements they wanted to implement, with the mobility and melee prowess as good bases while alot of new high level abilities into the were added such as power beams, speed, powerful sensor [from the 0 Raiser], large saber. In this regard, 00 is probably closer to the Astraea than Exia in terms of balancing, in the sense that its about equally good at everything.

----------------------------

And your right, it DOES come up to who has the Twin Drive System. CB does not even know anything about Innovation truth be told until post S2. Since the person would be in the middle of a large squared times three particle generator during Trans-Am, of course his most likely to Innovate first. Saji was there too during some instances of Trans-Am but Setsuna has been at the center of 00 Trans-Am more. They certainly had little idea of Innovation until then.

As for particles going through solid matter, there are a lot of elementary particles in real life that possess the ability to go through solid matter. I'm no expert in this field but I believe neutrinos I believe are one example such a particle type. The sun emits its own neutrinos and a large number of it passes through our bodies all the time and you cannot even see these as it happens.

Its important to note that even though you can see GN Particles when their compressed together into beams or when their emitted, their actually invisible to the naked eye in their smaller less compressed forms or in some certain applications. Solid GN Swords have a GN Field over them at all times applied over the shape of the sword; essentially making the applied GN Field becoming the extremely powerful "sharp edge" of the sword. In another case, one S1 episode even had Dynames on the ground while jamming the enemy radar over a certain range with GN Particles [while no visible particles are actually seen being seen coming out from Dynames or even being spreaded out]. The physical properties of GN Particles varies depends on how they are treated and this change of properties is taken advantage of for various uses in weapons and applications.

The manuals [PG 00 Raiser and MG Exia] seems to keep calling the particles as "photons" for some reason. If they are indeed photons, than they probably possess properties that are different from ordinary photons, I presume. But I still have not figured out what they mean by this but they are constantly associated with "light", thats how they come to be called as Solar Furnaces in the first place according to the MG Exia manual.

Not to mention, its during some instances of Trans-Am Raiser [its refers to a nickname of 00 Raiser in Trans-Am. Its separate term from Trans-Am Raiser the Mode, which is essentially 00 Raiser using the large Raiser Sword], you can have a field of telepathy communication between people within a certain range of 00 because of its GN Particles. If the GN Particles cannot get to these people, then they would be unable to do anything so there much be contact with them in order to initiate the phenomena.
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Re: The Official 00 Mecha Thread Mk XVI

Ok look at this. 00 Qan[T] HG models now shows the sword bit gimmick, GN Sword Riffle mode, and the combination sword...yeah!!
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Re: The Official 00 Mecha Thread Mk XVI

IT SLICES!! IT DICES!! IT MAKES JULIENNE FRIES!!

Setsuna is going to have a lot of fun with this Gundam. Question: If it has the TDS, where is the twin drive?
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Re: The Official 00 Mecha Thread Mk XVI

MBF-06/ZGMF-X12A Arbiter wrote:IT SLICES!! IT DICES!! IT MAKES JULIENNE FRIES!!

Setsuna is going to have a lot of fun with this Gundam. Question: If it has the TDS, where is the twin drive?
Hey its Vince from Slapchop, today we got our new mecha chop and slap design sample, boom one sword you got the cutting power of 10 walrus's in the forest with machetes. Think thats crazy? Well you're gonna love my nuts, and by nuts I mean my floating, flying, and ricocheting blades of vicious shanking, that also attach to our new blade design to form a even bigger Mechachopslap. Wow, and speaking of wow, totally not a throw back to my shamwow, This design turns into a launcher that shoots the Mechaslapchop across the room, gotta eat and run? Bang, cross the room food or enemy mechas sliced up like that.




I like this combi-sword actually I didn't expect that. I wonder if it requires all the bits/funnels/fangs to function or if it can produce different designs.
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Re: The Official 00 Mecha Thread Mk XVI

Heecarl_Reez wrote:Ok look at this. 00 Qan[T] HG models now shows the sword bit gimmick, GN Sword Riffle mode, and the combination sword...yeah!!
In related news, I officially love this Gundam. God damn it, I really wanted to hate the 00Q, but now... I mean, it's still not as good-looking as it could be, but that gimmick is just so damn cool. So much for the inevitable Strike Freedom comparisons. Thank God. That is all.

Now Raphael's backpack better do something cooler than just shoot and transform.
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Re: The Official 00 Mecha Thread Mk XVI

Personally I don't like any 00 and variants (except for 7S/G, the GN Sword Blaster is just too cool as a weapon), but this is really cool. I really want to hate the 00Q but after seeing the pictures, I think I'm forced to like it.
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Re: The Official 00 Mecha Thread Mk XVI

MBF-06/ZGMF-X12A Arbiter wrote:Setsuna is going to have a lot of fun with this Gundam. Question: If it has the TDS, where is the twin drive?
The first(?) picture showing 00Q's finished look showed something inside the shield that looks a lot like a Drive, which would make sense for the same reason Cherudim stuck its Drive where it did (to power all those fancy bits). That would leave the second one in the torso. Alternatively, the shield thing is just a condenser and both drives are lodged somewhere in the torso.
SniperBlade wrote:I like this combi-sword actually I didn't expect that. I wonder if it requires all the bits/funnels/fangs to function or if it can produce different designs.
I forget who it was but someone on here speculated a while ago that it might have a feature like that once we saw that the bits no longer had the handles seen in the initial teaser. Anyway, multiple modes are confirmed if not multiple different arrangements. There's one shot showing the combined sword with a split tip and another where it's a single piece. Actually, it looks like it's an extension of the sword/rifle duality since there's those two gray bits showing in the 'open' configuration. Assuming that's the case, it means that at least two of the sword bits can pull double duty as ranged weapons.

Also, looking at the way the things attach it seems that the four shorter ones mount directly to the sword while the longer pair go on top of those. It looks like it would be possible to add parts without having all six bits, though how useful that would be I can't say since we don't even know what the six-bit combination does in the first place. Aside from look awesome I mean. Somewhere, the Raftclans and Zui Gadin are turning green with envy.
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