I field generators

[Geoxile]

Some people claim that beams can't be fired from within the I-field yet we see the Big Zam, Neue Ziel, and technically the Quin Mantha do this despite having some form of I-field.
It's notable that most I-fields are shown to be large spheres that encompass pretty much the entire suit and yet they all fire out of this field. So can MA really not fire out from their I-fields? And that the Neue Ziel, Big Zam, and Quin Mantha - despite being 3 out of 4 official armors mounting the I-field- are just full of bullcrap?

Let me anonymously quote


I-Fields work exactly that way, you can't fire into one or out of one with a beam weapon, there's no difference between the in side or out side. If Big Zam did it, it was wrong, it wasn't the first and it won't be the last to disregard it's own rules.

Honestly the reason why Orchis has such a long cannon is because it needs to reach outside the I-Field bubble.

I-Field's DON'T work that way, the inside and the outside BOTH disperse Mega Particles and there's LITERALLY No information to the contrary. I-Field's function the same both ways, there's no difference between the outside and inside, TWO MA being silly about their own rules don't CHANGE the rules. Besides that I'm sure someone who cares more could put up a way around it, about the multiple I-Field generators overlaying in such a way to let the weapons fire. In the case of Bigzam... it just didn't have the rules in place at the time.

[Sleepneeded127]

could it be as simple as dropping the I-Field and re-activate it as soon as the beam is passed it. like how WWI planes fired rounds between the blades of the propellers. i dont remember I-Field ever being visible except when being hit.

[Geoxile]

The Big Zam's profile makes no mention of being able to turn off its generator with its problematic parts. Also how would the machine exactly...detect a beam to shield itself?

Also I-fields aren't really visible ever to my knowledge, IIRC the only thing seen is the beam dispersing across the surface. In fact when the Big Zam first shows up some beams simply magically curve off the surface as if there's nothing there. The only time we really see a "visible" I-field is in 0083 where they show white streaks but that may just be to show "force" as they often do in anime.

Also, quoting Gundamofficial

When the generator is activated, the I-field forms an invisible barrier around the mobile weapon, protecting it from incoming beam attacks. However, this barrier has no effect against solid objects like missiles and projectiles, and beam weapons can still be used at point blank range within the barrier's boundary.

The barrier is invisible and the fact that beam weapons work up close seems to direct towards the implication that beams within the I field work fine. The only thing that's really at question is whether beams are stopped both ways.

[Sleepneeded127]

The Big Zam's profile makes no mention of being able to turn off its generator with its problematic parts. Also how would the machine exactly...detect a beam to shield itself?0

it would not need to detect an incoming beam because the I-Field would be on the whole time. when the MA fires a beam the I-Field would stop for the time the beam would pass the field then kick back on this would take fractions of a second and not be noticeable

In WWI when an aircraft would fire its machine gun there was an interrupter gear in the propeller shaft that would not let the gun fire when the blade was in front. this would be a simple way the I-Field could allow shots out from the inside. all it would take is a simple electric switch not much different from a everyday light switch.


Edit: fixed quote

[mcred23]

So can MA really not fire out from their I-fields? And that the Neue Ziel, Big Zam, and Quin Mantha - despite being 3 out of 4 official armors mounting the I-field- are just full of bullcrap?

Supposedly, that is the case. I'm guessing that is clearly explained in the Japanese sources, as the wording on GundamOfficial, both for 'I-field' and 'I-field generator', seems a bit on the vauge side to me on whether or not they work both ways. They only mentioning incoming attacks, not outgoing.

However, I went back and watched episode 35 to check the Big Zam, and I was surprised that during its battle, only once do we see it fire any of its beam weapons at the same time the I-field is stopping enemy shots, and this clip (Where the Big Zam fires in all directions at various EFSF ships) is reanimated in the movie version so that the Federation ships stop firing shortly before the Big Zam opens up (As happens in the other cases the Big Zam fights beam-armed enemies). I don't recall the other battles, and I can't check them very easily, so I'll leave it to someone else to find a scene of an I-field seemingly working only one way...

[Geoxile]

I'm not quite sure how the I-field would be accurate even then. The beams take a long time to charge and then discharge, what what point would the I-field be taken down? After the beam hits the I-field?

[Sleepneeded127]

I'm not quite sure how the I-field would be accurate even then. The beams take a long time to charge and then discharge, what what point would the I-field be taken down? After the beam hits the I-field?

you not understanding it would be up all the time the only time it would be down is the less then a second it takes to fire the beam to pass form the MA to outside the Field.
all it would need is to know how long the beam takes to fire and reach the point the field is. something that is no hard since they could to similar things in 100 years ago.

[Geoxile]

No, I understand it but what you're not explaining is when the field would be taken down. The big zam has inconsistent charge time not to mention various weapons. Hundred years ago? We didn't even come up with variable charged particle weapons until the 80s IIRC and they're just implementing working weaponizations NOW.

[Dendrobium Stamen]

I'm not quite sure how the I-field would be accurate even then. The beams take a long time to charge and then discharge, what what point would the I-field be taken down? After the beam hits the I-field?

You underestimate the computer power of UC 0079; for one thing, it's sufficient to handle the insane number of calculations required to make an MS a practical combat weapon - the Cosmic Era wasn't wrong when it suggested even a Top Gun pilot would struggle to operate a mobile suit without major computer assistance.

Considering that in 1917 the technology behind the interrupter gear existed, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to suggest that eight decades into the Universal Century a similar computer-based "gear" could be fitted to the Big Zam - whether the animation supports that, I'm not sure, but it shouldn't be too far beyond the technology of an era in which the RX-78-2 is fitted with a self-learning computer...

Edit:

No, I understand it but what you're not explaining is when the field would be taken down. The big zam has inconsistent charge time not to mention various weapons. Hundred years ago? We didn't even come up with variable charged particle weapons until the 80s IIRC and they're just implementing working weaponizations NOW.

Presumably, the beam cannons' firing computers can be linked in with the i-field control computer, in a software equivalent to our aforementioned interrupter gear, dropping the i-field just at the moment the beam would cross the space inhabited by the defensive field: in an instant, field drops, beams pass through, field raises. Simples!

In such a system, charge time is fairly irrelevant - as long as the i-field controller knows when a beam is firing, it can drop the field, regardless of how quickly the beam coalesces. I believe the post regarding the technology behind this being near enough a century old references the interrupter gear which keeps being mentioned, not the still-fictional mega particle cannon, heh.

[Sleepneeded127]

all you need to now is how long it take to fire a weapon. it doesnt matter if it is a beam or a bullet. all you are doing is stopping it just long enough so the what ever your firing get passed what you are trying not to hit. it is no different then WWI planes not shooting there propellers off.

you are dropping the field for such a short time that you will not lose power since all you need to do is interrupt the power for something like .05 of a second or less. it is just enough to make it possible for a beam to get though the field then you have the field on. think of it as hitting a light switch fast enough that you dont notice the light go off

[Geoxile]

I'm not quite sure how the I-field would be accurate even then. The beams take a long time to charge and then discharge, what what point would the I-field be taken down? After the beam hits the I-field?

You underestimate the computer power of UC 0079; for one thing, it's sufficient to handle the insane number of calculations required to make an MS a practical combat weapon - the Cosmic Era wasn't wrong when it suggested even a Top Gun pilot would struggle to operate a mobile suit without major computer assistance.

Considering that in 1917 the technology behind the interrupter gear existed, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to suggest that eight decades into the Universal Century a similar computer-based "gear" could be fitted to the Big Zam - whether the animation supports that, I'm not sure, but it shouldn't be too far beyond the technology of an era in which the RX-78-2 is fitted with a self-learning computer...

Edit:

No, I understand it but what you're not explaining is when the field would be taken down. The big zam has inconsistent charge time not to mention various weapons. Hundred years ago? We didn't even come up with variable charged particle weapons until the 80s IIRC and they're just implementing working weaponizations NOW.

Presumably, the beam cannons' firing computers can be linked in with the i-field control computer, in a software equivalent to our aforementioned interrupter gear, dropping the i-field just at the moment the beam would cross the space inhabited by the defensive field: in an instant, field drops, beams pass through, field raises. Simples!

In such a system, charge time is fairly irrelevant - as long as the i-field controller knows when a beam is firing, it can drop the field, regardless of how quickly the beam coalesces. I believe the post regarding the technology behind this being near enough a century old references the interrupter gear which keeps being mentioned, not the still-fictional mega particle cannon, heh.

I suppose I'll have to take this with a grain of salt. But ok.

Sleepneeded...you're just kind of repeating so same I guess.

Also the interrupter gear that was originally devised was largely mechanical than digital so as much as you like to reference it, it's not a prime example.

[Dendrobium Stamen]

Also the interrupter gear that was originally devised was largely mechanical than digital so as much as you like to reference it, it's not a prime example.

You're going somewhat sideways of my point as regards the interrupter gear (or synchronisation gear, as Wikipedia tells me it should be called) - obviously the Big Zam isn't going to rely on a system of hydraulic linkages whose era came to an end before the Space Age even began. What I've been trying to get across is the notion of a software equivalent, a state-of-the-art futuristic electronicised version of this antique hardware, which fills exactly the same role, but using technology far more appropriate to its era.

As noted, the animation doesn't explicitly show any signs of "synchronisation gear" software installed in the Big Zam, but since the animation doesn't show its i-field at all, merely its effects, we can use it as a best-fit example of how things should work. Besides which, this is Gundam, where even the official facts don't always agree with the animated works!

[Geoxile]

As noted, the animation doesn't explicitly show any signs of "synchronisation gear" software installed in the Big Zam, but since the animation doesn't show its i-field at all, merely its effects, we can use it as a best-fit example of how things should work. Besides which, this is Gundam, where even the official facts don't always agree with the animated works!

However, I went back and watched episode 35 to check the Big Zam, and I was surprised that during its battle, only once do we see it fire any of its beam weapons at the same time the I-field is stopping enemy shots, and this clip (Where the Big Zam fires in all directions at various EFSF ships) is reanimated in the movie version so that the Federation ships stop firing shortly before the Big Zam opens up (As happens in the other cases the Big Zam fights beam-armed enemies). I don't recall the other battles, and I can't check them very easily, so I'll leave it to someone else to find a scene of an I-field seemingly working only one way...

Ehh

Besides, the I-field is stated to be invisible and there's never any mention of it blocking out going fire, only incoming fire i.e. ENEMY fire like it stats on Gundamofficial, I'd be inclined to be highly skeptical of the interrupter.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Well, couldn't it be something like...well...I guess an example could be the Planet Defensers in Gundam Wing with the Mercurius.

We know that initial I-Fields were used to contain Mega Particles of the ultracompact fusion reactors of various things.

So, similar to how the Planet Defensers were able to in Wing with how Quattre used them (He flipped the Planet Defensers around to form a barrier to contain himself and Heero in the Wing Gundam Zero and prevent damage from scattering all over the Lunar Base.), couldn't it simply be a "reversal" process of turning that barrier inside-out so the barrier is facing OUTWARD to deflect INCOMING mega particles rather than INWARD to CONTAIN mega particles?

[Deathonator]

I don't think that's how it works, the inside and outside of an I-Field barrier function the exact same. I'd assume the only reason a saber works is because as the M-Particles bounce off the I-Field their confined to such a tight space that they don't just disperse into invisible particles like a regular beam hitting a generated barrier. Basically, when it hits a regular barrier it has nothing but open space to disperse into and thus...it does. With a beam saber when it hits on part of the barrier, there's just more barrier to keep it from doing such as with a defensive barrier.

[Geoxile]

IIRC there was a source of info that said beams inside the I-field are still weaker but it still goes without saying that the official sources still explicitly determine the beams being blocked as enemy fire rather than all beams in general. I proposed that the I-field could be manipulated into exchanging its repulsive side, the argument I got was that "beam rifles wouldn't work then". If Gundamofficial is right then beam rifles get most of their initial muzzle velocity from the kinetic exchange between minovsky and megaparticles.

Also, if they worked both ways the I-field would be pretty imperfect considering that beam particles can apparently flow out of the field quite easily, after a few gouf kills Gundam's beam saber ran out of particles IIRC and he ended up trying to jam an empty hilt into a Gouf's cockpit

[Deathonator]

Also, if they worked both ways the I-field would be pretty imperfect considering that beam particles can apparently flow out of the field quite easily, after a few gouf kills Gundam's beam saber ran out of particles IIRC and he ended up trying to jam an empty hilt into a Gouf's cockpit

I-Field's have trouble penetrating metals, and thus armor, and IIRC turn off when they strike a target. So of course they lose particles rather quickly if the I-Field isn't on when they're cutting. However this never seems to be much of a problem later, so it's not really that big a deal I don't think.

[ORegan]

Ok, this is how I see the I-Field, explained in simplistic form. In regards to ballistics, an I-Field is as effective as air. We can all agree with that, no? When in regards to beam weapons, I like to think of it generally as a brick wall deflecting a tennis ball. No matter what side of the wall you're on, the tennis ball will bounce off. Now, I will urge those reading this to grab a tennis ball and find a brick wall to gain a visual representation of how an I-Field works.

Now, the suggestion Sleepy is....well...suggesting, is that there us a delay that can cause the I-Field to momentarily turn off to allow the person incased in a brick wall to throw their tennis ball without having said ball deflect off your own wall. Now, this cannot happen in the situation Mcred pointed out, where the Big Zam's Wall is engaged to block a ball, while throwing it's own ball through the wall at the same time. In this situation, it'd be impossible for Sleepy's sugestion to be possible...or is it? The shape of an I-Field can be manipulated fairly easily as far back as the original Gundam, evidenced by reshaping a beam saber's I-Field to create the beam javelin. Beam shilds in later UC are able to turn off to avoid hitting the MS it is attached to. Considering that, it could be possible for designated segments of the Big Zam's I-Field to turn off to allow it to fire, instead of turning off the entire I-Field.

[Seraphic]

That's quite an excellent analogy, ORegan. I'm glad you could share with everyone. Even I had not thought that I-field barriers could manipulate their coverage to allow shots to exit the barrier.

And just a quick note on the topic, the I-field barrier is shaped like the plastic of a balloon, and the inside should be empty space/air. (The entire inside of the sphere is not filled with Minovsky particles!) Beam sabers that are activated while inside the radius of the barrier shouldn't collide with the barrier and be blocked. That's why melee weapons work on units with I-field barriers.

...just trying to get across that the barrier is not a solid sphere like a cannon ball, but is hollow.

[bluemax151]

I believe this has come up before and Mark put something out to the effect that the Big Zam shuts off the barrier along it's equator(?) in order to fire. Now for the life of me I can't recall if he cited a particular source but I'm sure he'll pop in and post something when he's not busy.