Pegasus II?

[Imperial]

We all know the Pegasus-class was the superstar of the One Year War. Then Gundam Sentinel shows up and gives us the Pegasus III, the Argama-class carrier assigned to Taskforce Alpha.

I have to ask, where was a Pegasus II in this whole ordeal? Is the Argama considered the honorary number two for the sake of being modeled after the White Base?

[mcred23]

Argama being the 'honorary' Pegasus II makes sense to me. AFAIK, there is no Pegasus II in the normal (Animated works) UC universe. It's never shown up among the many Pegasus class ships running around (Mainly in reference books ).

So why the name? My guess is that it's just a nod to the altered naming in the MSG novels, where the terms White Base and Pegasus were swapped, and there was a Pegasus II. However, for an in-universe reason, your idea sounds good (Unless there is some official word on this matter).

[Doctord]

Well what would Thouroghbred(sp?) count as?

[Amadi Akintunde]

Well what would Thouroghbred(sp?) count as?

Isn't it a Pegasus-I? Seeing as how it was fielded during the OYW?

[mcred23]

The Thoroughbred is just another Pegasus class, like the various others fielded during and after the OYW.

[Imperial]

Argama being the 'honorary' Pegasus II makes sense to me. AFAIK, there is no Pegasus II in the normal (Animated works) UC universe. It's never shown up among the many Pegasus class ships running around (Mainly in reference books ).

So why the name? My guess is that it's just a nod to the altered naming in the MSG novels, where the terms White Base and Pegasus were swapped, and there was a Pegasus II. However, for an in-universe reason, your idea sounds good (Unless there is some official word on this matter).

A shout-out to the novels actually had occurred to me as a possibility, but then I wondered why the Taskforce Alpha ship wasn't the Pegasus II in that case. It's more direct and obvious, while the name Pegasus III begs the question of where the missing link wound up.

It's an incredibly anal, nitpicking sort of question, but what else is Mechatalk for if not getting down to the insanely nitty gritty?

Well what would Thouroghbred(sp?) count as?

The Thoroughbred is simply another Pegasus-class carrier. Alternatively, it's a White Base-class, if you're going by the novels, which is where the name first appeared, only later cropping up in a side story. If the III was named after every Pegasus ship that had come before it, it would be numbered considerably higher, depending on where things like the Troy Horse, with all of its conflicting information and dubious existence, fell in the greater scheme of things.

Edit: Ninja'd!

[mcred23]

A shout-out to the novels actually had occurred to me as a possibility, but then I wondered why the Taskforce Alpha ship wasn't the Pegasus II in that case. It's more direct and obvious, while the name Pegasus III begs the question of where the missing link wound up.

Aside from the previously mentioned possible honorary ship, maybe they left it open to allow a Pegasus II to appear at some point before that. The problem is, no such a ship has appeared (...Yet. Me hoping never), so it leaves the obvious gap.

However, that is basically all guess work, and we still have no idea why the Pegasus III is Pegasus III and not Pegasus II or Pegasus IV or Pegasus MCMLXXXIV.

If the III was named after every Pegasus ship that had come before it, it would be numbered considerably higher, depending on where things like the Troy Horse, with all of its conflicting information and dubious existence, fell in the greater scheme of things.

Yeah, when Sentinel was made (1987) they already had four or five of the Pegasus class named already in the good information sources, and now that number is up to eight. For any questions about that anyone may have, read this thread.

[Gelmax]

It's quite possible that the Pegasus II was just a regular ship, not remarkable enough to appear in animation. Similar to Star Trek's Enterprise-B and Enterprise-C, which didn't appear until several years after the start of TNG (which starred the Enterprise-D), and each only appeared because it happened to do something involving Kirk or Picard. What class of ship the Pegasus II was is an interesting question, but after a bit of thought, I've concluded that it'd have to be a Pegasus-class - there's less than a year between the rollout of the Argama and the rollout of the Pegasus III, which makes an Argama-class Pegasus II implausible. Given that there's a White Base II according to the Pegasus profile, and the fact that no two Pegasus-class ships looked alike, there's no real problem with there being a Pegasus-class Pegasus II. The only thing that really raises any doubt is the fact that (unlike later ship series), quite a few Pegasus-class ships have been identified with a fair amount of detail...but it doesn't really mean that the list of Pegasuses is complete.

[Dendrobium Stamen]

Personally, I'd like to believe Pegasus II, if it existed, was the first of the Salamis Kai class - reflecting the shift from dedicated Pegasus-class carriers to the more general-purpose cruiser-carriers the Federation finally adopted sometime between UC 0083 and 0087, having finally realised MS would be the primary instrument in space warfare in future conflicts...

...But that's just personal preference

[Dark Duel]

Do we know the name of that blue White Base-type Pegasus-class used by the Phantom Sweep Team? Because if we don't...it could be it? I mean, why not?

[Gundam Enzyklopadist]

@ Dark Duel
in the manga there is still no appearance of that White Base-type Pegasus-class ship, but why could it not be the Thoroughbred?

There is a chance for my guess since the regular story concerning the TB handle that the ship survives the OYW.

-- Henning

[InjuredPelican]

What about the Albion from 0083? Since 0083 was a bridge from MSG to Zeta, its concievable that the Albion could also be a Pegasus II, inbetween the White Base and the Pegasus III in Sentinel.

[Imperial]

What about the Albion from 0083? Since 0083 was a bridge from MSG to Zeta, its concievable that the Albion could also be a Pegasus II, inbetween the White Base and the Pegasus III in Sentinel.

That's a possible explanation, but hardly the most satisfactory. The first episode of 0083 was released in 1991, while Sentinel was made in 1987 as red pointed out. What's more, the Albion is simply another Pegasus at the end of the day. It may have been built after the war, but that doesn't appear to merit any special consideration.

When all is said and done, the Argama strikes me as the likeliest candidate for the "missing link." I had assumed that was the case in the first place, but I made this topic on the off-chance some source book gave us a definitive answer. Gundam is absolutely labyrinthine with all the supplemental material, so it seemed entirely plausible I was missing something.

Personally, I'd like to believe Pegasus II, if it existed, was the first of the Salamis Kai class - reflecting the shift from dedicated Pegasus-class carriers to the more general-purpose cruiser-carriers the Federation finally adopted sometime between UC 0083 and 0087, having finally realised MS would be the primary instrument in space warfare in future conflicts...

That's certainly a clever explanation.

[Dendrobium Stamen]

What about the Albion from 0083? Since 0083 was a bridge from MSG to Zeta, its concievable that the Albion could also be a Pegasus II, inbetween the White Base and the Pegasus III in Sentinel.

The problem with that, though, is that Albion already has a name - it's Albion.

It's possible of course that Albion or its sister ship of that design - I want to say Stallion? - was originally named Pegasus II and renamed later, but if it's not already been mentioned that this was the case I doubt it will be at this stage; 0083 is 18 years old, after all.

Edit: Ninja'd!

[mcred23]

Given that there's a White Base II according to the Pegasus profile, and the fact that no two Pegasus-class ships looked alike, there's no real problem with there being a Pegasus-class Pegasus II.

Actually, that fact is wrong. Half of the known Pegasus class ships are twins, and maybe a few more. The Grey Phantom and Troy Horse are totally identical, and the Albion and Stallion are also identical, although the latter lacks the folding catapults (Which, when folded, ought to make them totally identical as well). I'm not sure what White Base II or the original Pegasus look like (Although I've heard ideas) so they may be similar to other ships as well.

Personally, I'd like to believe Pegasus II, if it existed, was the first of the Salamis Kai class - reflecting the shift from dedicated Pegasus-class carriers to the more general-purpose cruiser-carriers the Federation finally adopted sometime between UC 0083 and 0087, having finally realised MS would be the primary instrument in space warfare in future conflicts...

...But that's just personal preference

A very interesting idea. It would also help explain why the ship is never seen (It'd be just another Sally) and why the Federation named their first Argama they used Pegasus III.

On a similar tangent, perhaps a ship of the Alexandria class got the name. It is often suggested (By us fans, I know ) that the Alex was ment to replace the Pegasus, so perhaps one of that line could have gotten the name...

@ Dark Duel
in the manga there is still no appearance of that White Base-type Pegasus-class ship, but why could it not be the Thoroughbred?

Nope. Thoroughbred has always been stated as being green, unlike the blue ship Dark Duel was referring to, which doesn't fit the description of any of the known Pegasus class ships. Of course, I wouldn't past a manga to add on another to the list of the Pegasus class (Which is at least eight ships, six built during the OYW and at least two after).

It's possible of course that Albion or its sister ship of that design - I want to say Stallion? - was originally named Pegasus II and renamed later, but if it's not already been mentioned that this was the case I doubt it will be at this stage; 0083 is 18 years old, after all.

I forget if the process used to determine which ship was which was in the thread I linked to a few posts back or one of the older threads, but the sister ship of Albion was Stallion, which was similar except it lacked the folding catapults.

[Deathzealot]

Personally, I'd like to believe Pegasus II, if it existed, was the first of the Salamis Kai class - reflecting the shift from dedicated Pegasus-class carriers to the more general-purpose cruiser-carriers the Federation finally adopted sometime between UC 0083 and 0087, having finally realised MS would be the primary instrument in space warfare in future conflicts...

...But that's just personal preference

A very interesting idea. It would also help explain why the ship is never seen (It'd be just another Sally) and why the Federation named their first Argama they used Pegasus III.

On a similar tangent, perhaps a ship of the Alexandria class got the name. It is often suggested (By us fans, I know ) that the Alex was ment to replace the Pegasus, so perhaps one of that line could have gotten the name...

Hmmm... I always thought that the Alexs where named after Towns. Though one could be named the Pegasus II, though personally I think it was a Pegasus Class that is built after the war alongside the White Base II.

[toysdream]

According to the Gundam Sentinel book, the Taskforce Alpha mothership is called "Pegasus III" because it has the same type of bridge-side radar antennas as the original White Base type. (Or possibly vice versa.) It's possible that they're actually counting the White Base as the Pegasus II, but otherwise, it looks like the only other ship with the exact same antennas was the Blanc Rival. Every other Pegasus ship we've seen - the Thoroughbred, the Albion, the Gray Phantom - has different ones, and the Alexandria and Salamis Kai and whatnot are totally out of the running.

Given the state of things when Sentinel was created, they probably considered the White Base the Pegasus II. (After all, it was the second ship of the Pegasus class.) But at this point, the Blanc Rival is probably the best alternative candidate.

-- Mark

[Erisie]

(I know I'm replying to a thread that hasn't been updated in 2 years, 8 months, but I found interesting data: I'm kinda surprised Mark didn't mention it)

The Pegasus II appears on the Mobile Suit Gundam novels by Tomino. It is likely the name chosen for the Argama-class we see in Sentinel is a nod to the novelization:

Spoiler

Amuro and Lalah's encounter occurs sooner, inside Texas colony. There, the original Pegasus faces a Zeon Zanzibar-class. By the end of book I (Awakening), the showdown destroys everything: the Gundam, the Elemth, the Pegasus, the Zanzibar, Char's Zaku and even Texas colony itself.

On Book II, we find out that the crew survived. On a base on the Moon, General Revil assigns Bright and his crew to a second White Base-class, the Pegasus II.

Amuro, meanwhile, gets upgraded to the G-3: http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/msg-novels/rx-78-3.htm

[toysdream]

(I know I'm replying to a thread that hasn't been updated in 2 years, 8 months, but I found interesting data: I'm kinda surprised Mark didn't mention it)

The Pegasus II appears on the Mobile Suit Gundam novels by Tomino. It is likely the name chosen for the Argama-class we see in Sentinel is a nod to the novelization:

True, but in the novels, the heroes' ship is the Pegasus, first ship of the White Base class, rather than vice versa. So the White Base II mentioned in the MSV materials - the new ship to which the former White Base crew are transferred after the war - would be the equivalent of the novels' Pegasus II in the anime continuity.

This doesn't rule out the possibility that the Sentinel ship's name is an homage to the novels, but it does seem a little iffy to me.

-- Mark